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Associate

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 30

Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 2:52 PM

Hi Folks;

I have two rather simple engineering questions.

1) Would not a conical sheet of paper having a long aspect ratio say a 100/1 length to basic width which was covered with attached magnets for which poles of the same side face inward resist collapse such as by compression of the conical paper assemblage inward in a directton perpedicular to the length of the cone?

2) Would not a continuous plyable magnetic sheet such as a home-use refrigerator magnet also when formed into a cone with only one side of the magnet facing inward also resist the above compression?

I am assuming that the answer to both questions is yes but need to be certian since I am working on theoretical concepts based in part on simillar configurations. The questions may sound juvenile, but I need to be absolutely sure of the above assuptions before I publically put my name to the related work.

Thanks for your onsideration.

Jim

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#1

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 3:28 PM

You should get lots of answers on these questions. I believe that in theory what you have stated has a limited amount of truth in it. For it to be substantial, however, you would need very strong magnets, possibly making any benefit cost prohibitive.

In some ways this sounds like a magnetic bottle. Have you examined those? Do a search.

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#2

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 3:39 PM

The frig magnets have both poles on the same side. Try pushing two together, if they resist, re-align slightly or re-orient and if you get it right they will pull together.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 4:52 PM

GA I agree; not sure about case 1) though; sounds feasable, but if the OP wants to save a lot of theoretical work, he should do the experiment.

Oh wait, I have still another question for him (or you):

When you break a rectangular magnet, you can't re-join the two broken ends, they become of the same pole, right ? well, which of the two halves reverts its field ?.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 7:18 PM

I don't think that is correct. I think the magnetism is linear along the bar, if the north is to the right, when you break it, both ends have north to the right and the broken ends attract each other.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 11:23 PM

One of the best ways I've found of answering such questions on paper is by drawing the magnetic field, represented as directional flux lines.

Draw the magnet as a simple rectangle and draw each flux line as a complete, closed, directional loop which exits the magnet at one pole, arcs round the magnet's exterior, enters the magnet at the other pole and continues on through the magnet, forming a closed loop. You've seen these diagrams a zillion times I'm sure (except that in many of them the flux lines stop at the poles, as if to suggest that the field originates there, which it most certainly does not).

Mark the pole where the flux lines exit the magnet as 'North', and where they enter the magnet as 'South'.

Now 'cut' the magnet by erasing its midsection, whilst leaving the flux lines in-place. Mark where they exit the new piece as 'North' and where they enter the other new piece as 'South'. Repeat as necessary.

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#3

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 4:46 PM

You can buy flexible magnetic sheets, I use them to attach business cards to the insides of control panels I work on. Why not experiment with them?

http://www.magnetking.com/#magnetsheet

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#6

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 10:46 PM

Play with magnets and iron filings.

If you imagine you are putting your reputation on the line, then do the experiments first. I can't imagine that you live somewhere where you cannot get access to magnets.

I'm having a hard time parsing "a conical sheet of paper." Is the sheet of paper 1 x 100 or is the cone rolled from that piece 1 x 100. In either case this would be a difficult cone to work with and to roll. Perhaps you could just roll a cylinder from a less extreme piece of paper?

Sounds like you are thinking about a magnetic bearing.

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Associate

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 11:34 PM

Hi Folks;

Thanks for the great feedback. I am going to look online to see where I can buy lots of low cost magnets. I like the iron filing idea as well.

The conical dimensions are somewhat arbitrary save it to say that the cone is long enough to approximate a cylindar of uniform thickness for conical sectional lengths that have a length equal to the average radius of the section.

Regards and thanks!

Jim

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/19/2012 11:51 PM

Edmund Scientific also sells a magnetic-field 'visualiser'. Like iron filings, but using liquid crystal material instead (some kind of ferrofluid* I think). For a coarse-but-cool (vector field) visualiser, use lots of little cheap compasses, like these.

Home-brew magnetic levitation (maglev) using (highly-diamagnetic) pyrolytic carbon sheet, Halbach arrays and/or other techniques is lots of fun, too.

* If you like playing with magnets, you're gonna love what you can do with ferrofluid (which you can make yourself, btw).

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#10

Re: Permanent Magnet Configurations

10/20/2012 8:06 AM

Refrigerator magnet is lots of little magnets. Both poles are on the side that sticks to the Frig.

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