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What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 8:58 AM

I have gone from biomass and "renewables" such as solar and wind, to being an advocate for natural gas. Yet I am always open for better things. I have heard a lot of thorium advocates. A new article says China is working diligently on developing thorium plants. It is also working diligently on every other energy technology. It has a true "all of the above" energy strategy.

This story caught my eye this morning, while I was doing my daily research on natural gas developments: http://www.smh.com.au/business/safe-nuclear-power-not-a-pipe dream-20130107-2ccqh.html

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#1

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 9:40 AM

Biggest barriers are time and money.

We probably could see a Th plant here in the USA by the turn of the century.

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#2

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 11:59 AM

It seems to be a tough pill to swallow when one has to admit that China is in the position of becoming the world leader in energy research. I wonder how I could safely invest part of my portfolio in that. I'm not sure that is an option for outsiders.

Considering the problems associated counterfeit products coming out of the orient in general, I'm not sure who to trust.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/08/2013 5:56 AM

Yes you can invest part of portfolio in China, but forget about returns..

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#3

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 12:33 PM

I don't know that "barrier" is the best word. this material is usually found along with "rare Earth metals" who has a stranglehold on that market ?? the US would be nuts to depend on china as a supplier of fuel

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#4

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 1:03 PM

I watched a TED talk on thorium reactors. There are many, many good reasons for using thorium reactors to generate power. The problem is that the nuclear power industry has been so weakened over the past 30+ years that the scientific and engineering resources needed to build and maintain them are hard to find. There is also the huge inertia to overcome in public support, which has heard so much bad press (some true, a lot just hysteria) that public resistance is tough to overcome.

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#6
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Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 2:43 PM

What you say has some truth, but the big factor now is that nuclear reactors have had a few problems, plus Fukushima. They are turning out to be too costly to build, having cost overruns also. If the entire lifecycle is added including safeguards and storage of nuclear waste, they are not competitive with natural gas.

If China can make thorium work, then we will be buying plans from them.

What I meant to ask is what technical barriers are there. The proponents always talk like it is proven science.

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#5

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 2:39 PM

The biggest barriers are politics, ignorant public view of nuclear power in general, unrealistic environmental protection demands/strongholds, and bloated construction costs and timelines related to the previous reasons.

The usual.

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#7

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/07/2013 11:00 PM

The two biggest unscalable walls are the NRC, and the public's fear of anything nuckuler.

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#8
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Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/08/2013 12:46 AM

"nuckuler."

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#10

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/08/2013 11:16 AM

Yes, Th would work just fine in a fast neutron reactor. As would U-238 (depleted uranium) which the US has huge stockpiles of. Read the on-line book "Prescription for the Earth" by Tom Blees. He explains the fast reactor even tho some other parts of the book sound (to me) like science fiction. The IFR, PRISM, etc, reactors can use up existing thermal reactor waste in addition to the Th & U-238. Also much less waste volume and radioactivity. Yes, politics and public opinion are the biggest barriers.

There's also a book named (I think) "Plentiful Energy" by Charles Till that I don't have yet. He was in charge of developing the IFR concept at Argonne National Laboratory.

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#11

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/08/2013 2:11 PM

Friends,

Early articles I read on this were citing work done in Canada. I'm not surprised to see China in references now. Regarding popular and unpopular opinion--there should always be a place for consideration of these as well as thoughtful evaluation of safety, etc. I distrust those on each side who are vocal in their claims of great safety or great risk. Yes, the Thorium cycle is much better in terms of avoiding production of isotopes that can be made into explosives. However, no one in this thread has pointed out that any type of reactor produces a significant amount of radioactive byproducts, regardless of the design involved. It is the safe handling of these byproducts as well as the radiated reactor components that are the major concerns I have. In addition to these are the well-known and often-ignored problems of hydrogen embrittlement that results in shorter-than-planned life cycles.

We continue to pour our attention into short-term (30-50) year power production to satisfy current need greed and ignore the long-term (1000+) year mortgage we place on the handling of the byproducts. Very few societies have had a track record with a long-enough duration, and our current focus is much much shorter than this!

On the whole topic of energy, Amory Lovins has been ignored, to our detriment.

--John M.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/09/2013 2:49 PM

Sounds like you are talking about the current water cooled thermal neutron reactors. The IFR fast neutron reactor will not have hydrogen embrittlement, because it is sodium cooled, not pressurized water. Yes, it will have radioactive waste, but not the long half-life actinides, because they are "burned" to produce energy. Much shorter lived fission products will remain, but much less volume than with the thermal reactors, and the storage time will be hundreds rather than thousands of years. Of course plutonium is made in the reactor by transmutation of uranium, but proliferation is not a concern, because the plutonium cannot be separated by the processing method that will be used. In addition, the plutonium will be consumed and will produce energy for us. Since reprocessing can be done on site, transportation of radioactive used fuel for reprocessing will not be needed.

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#13

Re: What Are the Barriers to Building Thorium Plants?

01/10/2013 11:59 PM

Video presentation of a fluoride thorium reactor. http://events.slooh.com/

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