Smell of Vomit Inside Floor

Check the wiring going to any outlet boxes installed in the down stairs ceiling upstairs floor cavity very carefully.

Some NMD90 (Canadian designation for nylon based house wiring - commonly called ROMEX in the US) can give off such a smell when heated. I have smelt this before.

I will definitely do that when I get home. One thing I did notice that caught me off guard was the fan was NOT grounded. I promptly grounded it... however, it makes me wonder about the rest of the house, and more specifically the other end of the wire that I used for ground... (it's probably not hooked to anything).

This is the 4th lighting fixture I have found/replaced that was not grounded.

I suppose in the 70's grounding was optional?

I think if I don't find any substantial information tonight when I investigate this further I'll go buy a can of that magic "Flex Seal" stuff and spray all the saw lines from the gawd awful floor hole of puke.

It's just odd to me that such an intense smell could have been totally hidden from any noses until now, especially when there are two holes which air can freely pass in the ceiling below.

Not only that.

In those decades both grounding was "loose", I had to rip out a lot of aluminum wiring. In your humid environment it really can play havoc.

On the other hand, fungus is always a problem with high humidity.

Grounding is always optional... just have to decide if safety is optional.

I can't tell what it is, but simple baking soda is a powerful odor remover; if it's mice throw a fistful of ratkill as well.

Just be sure to put the right container back in the cupboard when you're finished. Last time I made that mistake, none of our church's bake-sale customers ever came back.

I hope you're just kidding !!!

Roflmao

"I also did have some mice a few months ago... killed 4 or 5 of them, and haven't seen once since, still have set traps in various places that have been untouched for a few months."

What kind of traps? If it was the warfarin pellets, they work by causing intestinal bleeding. It isn't a far stretch of the imagination to believe that the rats/mice would throw up on their way out to find water, to calm their stomachs.

Just a thought...

If they're mechanical mousetraps, for bait use peanut butter. Rats and mice find it irresistible.

Not sure about mice, but warfarin is effective because rats cannot vomit.

Nope, Simple Spring traps.

The reason warfarin works on rats is because they are unable to vomit. Rat puke is akin to Rocking Horse shit in its rate of occurrence. Not sure about mice, but they are also rodents...yup Rodents can't vomit (that includes Squirrels!!!)

[Edit] I scrolled down a bit before posting this and found no comments. Came back to read rest of thread and find Kris had already covered this point...I blame the indented format . Links added as penance.

"Rat puke is akin to Rocking Horse shit in its rate of occurrence."

Still, it certainly explains those new Lincoln Logs we found in Ol' Derby's stall this morning...

tssk....a true CR4 addict uses chrono format. Go hang your socks in shame.

Objection! Point of Order! Nested is Bestest!

Only if you like scrolling all over the place - imaqine trying to read BBT in nested format.

I always did!

Don't tell me....your pooter runs on punched cards, and a new set of valves every 5 minutes ?

Oh you are sooo wrong! I upgraded to paper tape at least 18 months ago.

How LINEAR!! Punch cards are so much more fun as you can shuffle 'em, like a poker deck. Raise you 300 quatloos and a starship.

I have one word to say - albeit plural. Chads.

Ah, the One Word!

Thanksgiving message seen on church marquee around time of George W. Bush's 're-election':

"Re-count Your Blessings"

Butyric acid is a frequent source of this odor in construction materials (typically but not limited to ceiling tiles). The odor becomes apparent when exposed to humid or wet conditions - the situation you describe.

Yes, that was a favorite "stink bomb" in my high school days. (Certainly many years ago)

Good Luck, Old Salt

Certain plastics have that vomit smell. I used to notice it in cars that had vinyl seat covers in summer.

Yes, like the Xcelite plastic handles, europium is right, it is due to the butyric acid contained in some cellulose derivates.

There is one thing that strongly calls my attention: Everybody here seems to agree that the smell is that of vomit, but being a technician for many years me and my partners have unanimously agreed that the smell is that of a stinky or sweaty a$$.

However, I noticed a remarkable resemblance between vomit and something else: sour coffee with no milk nor sugar, lemmon added, don't ask me why was I drinking that, I was a kid but I swear they taste the same.

We had that problem at one place I worked. This one software engineer. Brilliant bloke, too, and very productive. Didn't want to let him go, but plant morale was in a tailspin. Considered hermetically-sealing his cubical with him inside, but ultimately took the more humane approach of hiring an experienced arse valet. Even had his own bunny suit, too, like those folk on those Intel adverts? Innovative bloke as I recall. Started his own company making personal vacuum chambers for recalcitrant arse-hats.

Years ago I had a collection of screwdrivers made with some foul-smelling plastic handles. In open air the smell wasn't noticeable, but closed-up inside my toolbox they caused a disgusting vomit smell that filled the room whenever I opened the toolbox.

Bet they were Xcelite screwdrivers, yes? The most godawful smell, right after my son's socks.

I had a set of Xcelite nutdrivers that I had to eventually throw even though they were in perfect condition.

The plastic handles had begun to smell like vomit. Couldn't get the smell off of my hands.

I'm guessing plastic "something" is the culprit.

Me too. The Xcelite nutdrivers in a clear case with the black 'handle enlarger' to slip over the smaller handles. One of the foulest smells ever.

So, it's conclusive? Somebody left a set of nut drivers in the ceiling?

Anybody care to speculate on how toxic that 'smell' is? What it is? Something is outgassing from that plastic and it sure ain't Les Larmes Sacrees de Thebes!

See #49. Sure beginning to sound (smell) like it.

One of the shop guys here that I was talking with yesterday, asked me to stick my nose in his toolbox and take a whiff... yep, EXACTLY the same smell that I had in the house. It was a couple old crafstman screwdrivers. That's the smell without a doubt.

I take it you're not buying your carpet from Sears, then?

Yes!!! Xcelite...

I still have my set purchased in 1976.

One of the handles stripped off the knurled shaft, so my "friend" slowly heated the handle until it softened and re-jammed the handle onto the shaft.

In organic chemistry in 1994, I took the things to the lab. They were offgassing so much my instructor told me to take them outside. For them to smell worse than the stuff we made in orgo lab... wow.

To this day, to determine if the set, in its little folding case, is in my soldering tool pouch, all I have to do is unzip and sniff. 100% proof positive every time.

Imagine being stuck with the reputation of being the company who makes the Smelliest Tools on Earth.

At trade shows and conventions stuck with being the only company who has never once had a Booth number. Instead, signs at the gate direct visitors to the Shack Out Back, or East or West, or all of them - depending of course on which direction the wind is blowing (And Don't Forget To Pick Up Your Complimentary Full-Face Respirator, FREE! (trust us, you'll need it)).

And everybody has seen those little blurbs on adverts which read "Follow us on Twitter / Facebook" etc. Not so with Xcelite's.

"Follow Your Nose."

There's a possible money spinner in this. Tools with fragrenced grips - Lavender, YSL, Old Spice etc. Some sort of roll-on sheath could be made to satisfy those with working tools they like. If anybody at Durex is reading this and decides to run with the idea, I'd like at least 5% of the gross.

Or, they can simply change their name to Rcelite and captivate the ever growing market of twisted buyers in search of the gross.

It certainly explains why my car mechanic doesn't have any friends.

(On the flip side he seems to be very popular here ).

Although it is on a slight tangent: When I was in college and living at home for a period of time I had a part-time job at a chemical company in their analytical lab. Their products included flavors, fragrances and essential oils. We had one chemist who was very sloppy and left, by accident, "Mystery puddles" of materials all over the lab. That combined with the fact that some of the products were very strong determined what you might smell like when you left to go home. My mother could always tell when I was working with the garlic, the onion, cherry, lemon flavors or fragrances. Often I would have to do the analysis on the perfume fragrances (low man on the totem pole) and she would rate me on my smell. Her ranking went something to the sort of: socialite, someone I should get to know, plain Jane and then Hooker. On some occasions she would accuse me of not going to work and spending the day with a Hooker. One particular fragrance would "attach" itself to you if you were sweating near it let alone working with it. I always took 2 showers, one at work and one at home, before going out on a date if I had been working with it.

This was in NJ and at the time there were several similar operations nearby. One company located next to a major highway made the odorant for the tablets that are used to deodorize urinals and toilets. Whenever they would have a vapor release and the wind was right the whole area stunk like a urinal. The agitation of the vapor by the nearby cars would make it even worse. More complaints came in about the type of smell than about a vapor release.

On a few rare occasions nearby chemical companies would have releases of "bad odor" vapors and the "urinal odor" company's smell would mix and either overcome the bad odor or mix with it and make the area uninhabitable. Oh for the good old days of "A Better Life Through Modern Chemistry"!

Good luck, Old Salt

No pheromones, then? A biochemist who'd been studying honeybee pheromones earlier that morning forgot to wash up before meeting her boyfriend at the park. Within minutes she was covered in honeybees - very affectionate honeybees - whilst her boyfriend looked on in horror.

Evidently they thought she was their queen!

We were treated to food flavouring smaells when I was growing up, depending on the wind. I have always hated strawberry flavouring! Some of them were quite pleasant, but the strawberry...yuk!

Get some biological odor control stuff and put it in the holes....

http://www.accepta.com/biological-treatment/biological-odour-control.asp

my only suggestion is to hand out very tiny bags and inform the mice to use them when they feel the need to puke!

Not as easy as it sounds. Last time I asked permission, I had to wait thirty minutes for the stewardess to stop screaming.

for the record I'm not going to be sleeping in your guest room

Are you sure it is not the carpet glue, if it animal based glue it could have a nasty smell (i forget some glue is/was made from cow bones?)

Couple or few short thoughts.... being an ex-construction folk... I do know that "they" (never myself) have been known to have a bodily function or two on site...could have been sealed for awhile.. If you have aluminum wiring,you could have a heat situation there due to the amp draw ( you know the situation ) coupled with the insulation on the wiring... I wouldn't cover it up just yet.... Been this long..... That carpet can wait awhile... and then you can tell us what the deal was... we are all wanting to know...

Mold.

You may be right about mold. Unfortunately, none was found anywhere inside the floor... there is a restroom approx 12 feet away, I'll be pulling the toilet soon to inspect the seals, and flooring underneath. I've had this house for not quite a year now, and so far everything that I have torn out has been in fairly good shape. New Roof/gutters, 100% new floor throughout (once I get the carpet installed), and all new paint and light fixtures. I have 2 bathrooms and a kitchen in the near future.

Mold is definitely prevalent around here.

As of this point, I rewired the ceiling fan with certified wire (the stuff that was used was crap), and I did as much poking around as I could with no positive results, so I'm going to have the carpet installed today.

This calls for experimentation, and time....

Drill a hole in one corner, another opposite. Blow clean air in one, suck (with blower!!) on the other. If no smell in a few days, mistery, done. If smell persist, you have a bigger problem.

There are anaerobic bacteria that can exist in some veneers where moisture is present. These bacteria will usually attack the veneer resins and will be located inside the layered veneers. You may have to replace your subfloor to cure the problem. I recently did something similar and did replace the subfloor before I installed hardwood.

A second wood that I recall smelling like vomit was elm. I had elm slats under a bed and they smelled forever and like vomit when you got close. I do not know of any other wood sources other than these two. If it helps.

If you want to treat the symptom without tracking down the root cause. Put a few moth balls in the cavity before you close it up.

At the car dealerships that I worked at as a youth it was common practice to crush moth balls into the carpet of a used car if it had the smell of vomit. Worked like a charm.

TRUE! --nervous --very, very dreadfully nervous I had been and am; but why will you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses --not destroyed --not dulled them. Above all was the sense of hearing acute. I heard all things in the heaven and in the earth. I heard many things in hell. How, then, am I mad? Hearken! and observe how healthily --how calmly I can tell you the whole story.

I don't know if this will work for chemically generated smells like from plastics, but I have seen ozone generators used to kill mold and other sources of stench. Hunting supply catalogs sell them to destroy any odors left on hunting clothes. They say the ozone generated will go through walls and kill the mold and when put in a car it can remove the stench of a dead body. Not that I know personally anyway.

My Advice is sell the house now! I alluded to a story I heard in an earlier post about a guy who had a similar problem. I don't believe it went well for him in the end.

"What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet." -- Woody Allen

This story?

yup. That's the one!

I was thinking more of one by Edgar Alan Poe. It seems he had problems with things under floor planks as well.

Well, selling isn't an option for a couple years. I bought the place with the full intention of doing renovations and selling once the market picked back up, I haven't even been in it for a year now, and have torn through most of the house and have found everything else up to this point to be in order. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed.

We had the exact same thing in our condo. The smell of decaying little critters is intense and very recognizable. The good news is it will go away... eventually.

When this happened to us, we had mice in a wall because Mister Squirrel had eaten through the fascia boards and made a home. Right behind him came some mice. The mice fell down inside a wall that did not have a top plate (super smart builder, there).

We could hear them scratching. I was commanded to release them. I cut a hole in the sheetrock. Dear God. We left for a week. Well, she did. I stayed to demolish the entire wall, sterilize everything and Boy Scout Honor Swear that I had safely taken the living ones outside so they could have a new home, and buried the dead ones. Yep. That's what she thinks I did...

So I demolished everything, cleaned up a horrid mess and stench and pulled up the carpet and bleached everything in sight. Rebuilt the wall, this time with insulation and a top plate. Relaid the carpet. Things were going just fine until one night when I could not resist and I started scratching on the wall with a coat hanger. I then received instructions on how not to be the worst person on earth for reminding her of the poor little mice scratching to get out.

I bought her Poes' "The Telltale Heart" as a going away present.

Years later, I encountered my worst smell ever. Dead human corpse, around 10 days, says the coroner. My medic partner had the bright thinking to trip over the coffee table and plant a boot right in the abdomen. I thought I could handle almost anything. I could not.

Some Oak wood has the same smell and if its new to you, you might not suspect it. Is there Oak wood flooring here? Woody

No oak, Just plywood and particleboard.

The smell could not be located.

Maybe you've found where they hid Jimmy Hoffa!

Well, I have some Egg on my face...

I found the smell.

It was not from the floor.

My wife was painting shortly before I began the work on the floor, she had just finished painting the ceiling of the room I was working in. Everything smelled fine... wet paint...

It just so happened that the paint had dried while I was working in the room, and for some reason the timing was close enough, that the smell announced itself roughly the same time I removed some floor boards.

When I came home from work yesterday, my wife asked me to go "sniff" the ceiling, as she thought it was suspect for the odor. I sniffed it, and almost fell off the stool I was standing on. HORRIBLE smell from the ceiling.

Turns out the paint we had recently purchased from Home Depot was rank, spoiled, rotten etc.

I did some research, and found that this was not necessarily common, but had been documented enough from others across the internet, that I knew I wasn't crazy.

Apparently a bacteria had gotten into the batch of paint, and during storage it had consumed the organic compounds in the paint, releasing Butyric Acid as it's byproduct. Who knew?!

I took the half of a can back to home depot and explained what had happened. After some discussion over the phone with the paint manufacturer rep it was decided that home depot would cover the cost for all items necessary to repaint the room, and apparently the manufacturer planned to reimburse them for the paint...

But... Home depot also said I could have drop cloths, tape, and in addition to the replacement gallon of paint, home depot also gave me a free gallon of Killz orderless sealer. I was absolutely thrown back by the extreme level of customer service I received from Home Depot. Very impressed, they have earned a customer for life.

So in the end, I had myself a nice wild goose chase which turned out to be hiding on the ceiling instead of hiding in the floor.

But thank you all for the ideas. We were close with the screwdriver handles, it was indeed the same chemical (butyric acid) causing the odor.

I have sealed and repainted the room at this point, and the smell is gone!

Cheers!!!

Good show!

I learned something from this.

There's lots of strange guys out there who like to sniff their tool handles.

If you have any Kilz left, mind painting my screwdrivers?

...Or I could give them to Lyn [darts behind paint can]

Who woodah thunk? Thanks for the update !!

Makes sense... good info. Thank you!

While having no idea as to how to eliminate hidden smelly crap, I had such a mishap once, and even found out what caused that vomit smell, which grew stronger BTW, as time passed by.

Someone threw a pickle and left it there to rot.

Just thought you should know.

Someone did that in London. Same thing happened there.

The Royal Family said it was the work of a couple of Australian DJs which is, of course, pure rubbish. Everyone knows Australian DJs much prefer cane toads: "With a bit o' trainin', you can make 'em chuck a couple a snags on the barbie, slip out to the ol' bottle-o when the cupboard's bare, and even sing the Australian National Anthem by heart, 'Khe sanh'. Try that with a pickle and see how far you get."

Norman Foster is gonna have your hide for a rug !

Ahh, the sweet smell of success....