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Distilled Water

02/10/2014 5:10 AM

Dose anyone knows how to get the Distilled water specs. for car battery.?

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#1

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 6:59 AM

Yep. Battery manufacturers do.

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#2

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 7:20 AM

Surely there is no spec for distilled water??!!
It's either distilled or it isn't

If it's distilled then it's pure, if it ain't it ain't.
Del

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 7:35 AM

<...pure...>

Distilled water isn't pure in the 'ultrapure' (<1ppb impurities) sense. Just sayin'.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 7:42 AM

Terminology commonly used to describe various levels of water purity see to vary a lot from from field to field and sometimes even from location to location.

.

In my experience, high purity water would not be referred to as just 'distilled'. I would expect high purity water to be referred to as either 'deionized' (which is funny because that in itself doesn't guarantee high purity), 'high purity', or as a specific grade (1) or type (I).

.

If the purity of water isn't dictated, for battery use, I'd generally favor 'deionized' over 'distilled', since conductivity and ion content are probably the big concerns.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 2:01 PM

truth is not a compromise-

Just a little expansion on what you posted. -->Within the chemical and general pharmaceutical industries Distilled Water is the purest that is obtainable without further processing or confirming testing. Some of the grades that are available in their purity level (not mentioning all but a sampling) in ascending order are: sea water (brine); lake water; city water; normal well water from a private well; spring water around this area +/-; some De-ionized water; some water that is tested and determined to fall with a grade for high-purity; distilled water (1 distillation); water for injection (after testing); some more grades of high-purity; double distilled water; and finally triple distilled water. Triple distilled water is the highest purity obtainable commercially but most labs make their own due to potential contamination.

Many of the lower purities are much purer than what they are labeled. If a particular batch (production or laboratory) does not meet the standard for that product but meets the standards for a lesser quality it is sold as the lesser quality. An example of this would be distilled water that didn't meet the specs. It might be sold as one of the pure water grades with standards that are not as stringent.

I prefer distilled water for batteries simply for the cost savings. Using it is not much more $ over the life of the battery and if its use extends the life of the battery it worth the small extra cost. Another reason is I always have distilled water at home but for a different reason.

The conductivity and ion content of distilled water is much better than de-I water. Within the study of conductivity distilled water is used as a relative standard for comparison. De-I water still has material within it that will make it more conductive than distilled water. Most materials in any grade of water will make it more conductive.

The ironic thing about all this is that if you look at a MSDS for Distilled water the first aid recommendations are really laughable. If you get Distilled Water on your skin you should wash the area with soap and water. Swallow it, drink plenty of water. Get it your eyes, rinse well for 15 minutes with water.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 3:07 PM

Good info. We do see DI water a little differently. If I were in the business of producing very pure water, I wouldn't introduce anything to my expensive h and oh exchange resins that hadn't first been cleaned up by distillation and/or reverse osmosis first.

.

You are exactly right that ion exchange resins don't effectively remove some of the stuff that other processes are better at, though usually strictly referring to conductivity, ion exchange resins can provide lower conductivity in fewer passes/less time. I still wouldn't want any of the stuff that could have been removed by another process using up any of the cleaning capacity of the resin beds. The highest purity or best cost for a given purity are probably going to be achieved using a combination of processes.

.

There is bound to be large variation in the purity of water within any single process, depending on the specifics of that particular set up and operation. Proper operation and handling of the product can have more to do with purity than whether multiple distillation or some combination ending in resin exchange is used.

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#18
In reply to #10

Re: Distilled water

02/13/2014 2:57 PM

The reason for treating distilled water differently than regular water is that, as a chemical it is actually a very weak acid. lI remember this from high school chemistry. This is the reason that de-ionized water is recommended for radiators. An easy test to show that distilled water will "burn" the skin is to apply some to the inside of you forearm and just let it dry. In a few minutes it will have a slight redness. The acid quality is why water usually has some other materials dissolved in it which usually brings it to a neutral solution. De-ionized water is a neutral solution. Distilled water is the perfect water for batteries and I have never seen any manufacturer of batteries that specified anything else. There is not need for double or triple distilled.

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Distilled water

02/13/2014 4:31 PM

4wsilver-

Better go back to high school chemistry or fire the teacher. Mr. Barbaritto apparently taught better chemistry than that teacher!

Distilled water is not a weak acid, having a pH of 7.0 it is neutral, not acid and not basic. Acids have pH's lower than the 7.0 and down to 1.0, with very few pure acids or acid solutions having a pH in the range of 6.9 down to 6.0. Bases have pH's above 7.0 up to 14.0. Almost anyplace that water is recommended distilled water can be substituted for it since it is much purer water, if not the purest available. Some other grades of water are available but most are combined with or have certain chemicals removed from them, example of this is 0.05 % deuterium water has 0.05 % percent of 2H instead of the normal protium, also known as Hydrogen-1. This has one proton and one neutron within the nucleus of the atom. All this is commonly referred to as "heavy water". Thus it is not pure distilled water but specially mixed water.

Deionization is a chemical process that uses specially manufactured ion-exchange resins which exchange hydrogen ion and hydroxide ion for dissolved minerals, which then recombine to form water. Because the majority of water impurities are dissolved salts, deionization produces a high purity water that is generally similar to distilled water, and this process is quick and without scale buildup. However, deionization does not significantly remove uncharged organic molecules, viruses or bacteria, except by incidental trapping in the resin. Thus de-I water is not pure water, just as the name implies, it is without charged ions.

The pH of De-I water can be as low as 5.5 up to about 6.8. The lower pH is usually due to exposure to carbon dioxide after deionization (remember when CO2 is exposed to H20 it forms H2CO3, an acid) Look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_water for recommended use of pure water.

The acid quality is why water usually has some other materials dissolved in it which usually brings it to a neutral solution. Is incorrect. The solubility of things in water is due to the properties of solubility and not a slight acid condition. Why does Lye, Sodium Hydroxide NaOH, dissolve in water and form a pH close to 14? Not due to a slight acid condition ion the water.

There certainly a need for double and triple distillation! What would laboratories due when they needed extremely pure water? Triple distillation provides this purity. As I stated earlier, it is usually prepared on an as needed basis in order to maintain purity. Those who need and want triple distilled will determine if it is needed, not submitters to CR4.

As for the dermal "burning" attributed to distilled water, this is very counter to the treatment of extreme burns such as third degree. These burns are treated by daily or more frequent rinses and washes with distilled water that has been tested for purity. It has been found suitable for classification of "Water for Injection". I have observed this procedure at the Cornell Burn Center in NYC, perhaps the pre-eminent burn center on the east coast. If the "distilled water" caused redness on arms perhaps it was not distilled water after all.

For more information on the subject of purified waters

http://wsd.net/maintenance/files/DistilledWtrAbbeyChem12008.pdf

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/MSDS/MSDS/DisplayMSDSPage.do?country=US&language=en&productNumber=07-6061&brand=SAJ&PageToGoToURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sigmaaldrich.com%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fsaj%2F076061%3Flang%3Den

http://www.qia.cz/shop/pdf/40464msds.pdf

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Distilled water

02/13/2014 5:47 PM

Old Salt,

I stand by my statements regarding the weak acid, not neutral, for pure distilled water. I will review the question next Wednesday with people who know more that either of us, but all the information I had throughout my college and working career support the weak acid. I did have quite a few projects involving water treatment and use of water in industry and that was always the data on information from manufacturers as why to not use distilled water in some applications. Testing in high school and college always showed it to be slightly acidic.

My statements regarding not needing double or triple distilled water was directed toward the use of water in a battery. Single pass for batteries is sufficient.

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#26
In reply to #23

Re: Distilled water

02/13/2014 9:35 PM

Any water in an open container upon standing will become slightly acidic as I previously stated for DeI water. This is due to its exposure to CO2 in the air. Open water originating from rain is relatively very acidic due to acid rain. As the MSDS states the pH for distilled water is 7.0. I'm sure your people "who knows more than either of us" will agree with that. (Please don't include me in the comparative US. It is presumptuous and in fact untrue). If not, additional education/experience is required. This is a basic fact from high school chemistry! Also this is how seltzer and soda/pop get their fizz.

The ironic part about all this insistence that distilled water is acidic is that the at least 90% or more of the water used to top-off LA batteries is not de-I water, not distilled water but plain, simple, cheap and readily available tap water! Out of pride some people say state they use the better waters but in reality use tap water. In the past 15 years I can't recall seeing anything but tap water being used in anything else besides critical UPS equipment operated by the largest wireless provider.

Check with Wiki, high school text books, MSDS's, accepted standards and other resources and they will state that distilled water is pH 7.0, just as the previously provided MSDS states. As the standard of "neutral" for pH, it is 7.0. Plain and simple the insistence that water is other than what it is unproductive and could be misconstrued as correct by a few that are not familiar with basic water chemistry.

I purposely not gone into the testing of water and others water solutions which result in mho's in order not to deviate from the original posting any more than what it has. (Lyn- thank for the clear and obvious reminder! Sometimes, as you know, it is difficult to shut up when facts are not accepted as facts).

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#4

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 7:40 AM

Yes. You buy a bottle of distilled water. It'll say 'distilled water' on the label. That means the water is distilled.

You can use some of it in your car battery.

Unless it's a sealed battery. Then never mind.

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#6

Re: Distilled water

02/10/2014 7:55 AM

There are many standards for distilled water. They are based on the location of the manufacture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_water

I doubt that a call to the manufacture will give you the answer you want. As the acid is most likely packaged and shipped to them. The specs they will have to look them up and they may not be on the water but the acid. Recently shipped a dry battery out to a customer. The 33 gal. barrel of acid they supplied with it was from a chemical company.

My suggestion to you is the best you can fined available. This will also most likely be the answer you will get from the battery manufacture.

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#7

Re: Distilled Water

02/10/2014 9:22 AM

EAS 123: Distilled water -Specification
ASTM D1193 - 99e1 Standard Specification for Reagent Water
DI Water Specifications.htm - TM Associates
A better questions would have been,"Do I need to test the distilled water I use in my battery"?To which the answer would be, "No, you do not need to test the distilled water you use in your battery".

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#8

Re: Distilled Water

02/10/2014 10:33 AM

Get the MSDS for it!

http://www.avantormaterials.com/documents/MSDS/usa/English/W0600_msds_us_cov_Default.pdf

They might not tell you much since there isn't much to tell about it.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#9

Re: Distilled Water

02/10/2014 11:00 AM
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#12

Re: Distilled Water

02/10/2014 3:10 PM

IIRC diesel/electric submarines were quite specific. We had a water cooled RADAR that was very finicky even with rain water. That being said, you will need to verify the maximum dissolved salts. I would venture the stuff you buy at the supermarket is sufficient for most applications. Unless of course you are a Submariner, or a RADAR tech. You can also purchase something called "battery water" I've never looked at exactly what makes it battery water, but isn't "water clear"

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Distilled Water

02/10/2014 3:20 PM

'Rainwater' is a very low standard of water purity....even long distances from cigarette and diesel smoke.

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#14

Re: Distilled Water

02/10/2014 10:48 PM

Some lab technicians I once knew (connected to a hospital) gathered rain water and put it through a deionising process and used that for their batteries. Others simply replaced their lead acid batteries with sealed NiFe cells. Anyway, are not most car batteries today sealed so do not need replacement water. Fresh rainwater was often used in the as collected state but this tended to reduce battery life.

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#15

Re: Distilled Water

02/11/2014 5:30 AM

Some "Distilled" water, specifically for battery topping up, contains a small amount of acid in it........it depends upon the manufacturer......though I have to admit that its been a long time since I actually saw such "Topping up" water......but again, I haven't looked either!!!!

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Distilled Water

02/11/2014 5:58 AM

A lot of high purity water ends up with 'a small amount of acid'. The small amount of acid increases with exposure to air.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Distilled Water

02/13/2014 3:03 PM

Distilled water IS a weak acid! Look on the internet for verification and it will also be referred to as "Hungry water"

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Distilled Water

02/13/2014 4:15 PM

Why would 'hungry water' indicate more hydronium than hydroxyl ions?

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#24
In reply to #19

Re: Distilled Water

02/13/2014 9:07 PM

Typically the reason high purity water becomes acidic is exposure to carbon dioxide in the air. This isn't a problem if the exposure does not occur.

.

High purity water can be very corrosive, but that is not related to it sometimes being weakly acidic. It can be highly corrosive even if the pH is not lowered.

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#17

Re: Distilled Water

02/11/2014 6:36 AM

Thank you all for the great help.

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#22

Re: Distilled Water

02/13/2014 4:57 PM

We've gone from battery water, which is all the poor OP wanted to know about, to CP/DI/reagent grade, and even, "water for injection" in our quest to dazzle each other with brilliance, when the OP is just baffled by the bullshit.

Consider this is my "one upsmanship" rant, again.

He wanted to know what time it was, and we told him how to build a watch.

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#25
In reply to #22

Re: Distilled Water

02/13/2014 9:12 PM

Thank you. That is a reminder I apparently needed.

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#27

Re: Distilled Water

02/24/2014 4:59 PM

The main spec (as I best recall) for battery water is that the hardness be less than 0.5 grain/gallon. All distilled water will meet this specification, unless they do not have a clue what they are doing. Hardness ions interfere with the lead in the lead-acid storage battery.

Pure water self ionizes, and is not an acid per se, nor is it a base. IF the water is pure, the pH will be in the range from 6.95-7.05, depending on temperature. IF the water has come into contact with atmospheric carbon dioxide, do not be concerned. The stronger sulfuric acid (in the battery) will drive off the CO2 (down to a "reasonably" low level).

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Distilled Water

02/24/2014 7:11 PM

Thank you for confirmation, GA

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: Distilled Water

02/25/2014 2:53 AM

That fits in with my personal (possibly limited) knowledge perfectly.

Well said.

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