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An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

04/16/2014 2:28 AM

I was wanting to store the HHO gas from my generator. I did an experiment where I filled a 2 liter plastic bottle full of the gas so it was under quite a bit of pressure, enough to make the bottle go solid. I then buried it underground so that the top of the bottle was 50cm beneath the surface. I had a tube in the bottle with an ignition source stuck in the other end. When I set it off, the ground shook very slightly and there was quite a muffled bang. It was more like a thud as if a large rock was dropped. Had the bottle been set off above ground, it would have made a terrifying loud bang which would be heard for miles around. The reason I am burying my tanks is so that if anything does go wrong, no one would notice. I will use 6 bottles buried at least 1 meter underground.

I recorded the experiment in slow motion here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiSJ-n7kCtc

The problem is that hydrogen is lighter than oxygen so I would have hydrogen at the top and oxygen at the bottom of the bottle. and as I use the gas, my flame would go out as only oxygen is left.

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#1

Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 2:59 AM

What are se talking about?

HHO gas is nothing more than steam and would go "bang" only when you actually mean Hydrogen gas.

You are aware of how easy this goes bang, are you? Putting them bottles underground makes sense but is no prevention of desaster. How do you produce the H-gas? How will the bottles get underground?

Your tanks are how big?

Kids I urge you, dont do this at home!

There is an accident to happen!

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 4:56 AM

Sorry it's not steam. It's just a mix of hydrogen and oxygen aka Browns gas etc
Del

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#4
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Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 5:24 AM

My hope died when I read the other hydrogenheads posts

HHO is not H2O (Two H one O) OK! I see!

.

Its H2 plus O2 Mixture!

Its an even more dangerous gas to work with when the O2 is in!

I bet this garden will need no plowing!

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#5
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Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 5:26 AM

Click the link that I went out of my way to include...
A cake and a pile of ingredients are not the same thing.
Water (or ice or steam) isn't the same as a mixture of the two gasses in the proportions two of hydrogen to one of Oxygen. Once it has gone bang or reacted, then you will have water vapour.

Del

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#2

Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 4:53 AM

If you are storing a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen together then you are (IMO) being foolish.

You don't say how you are creating the gas.
If you are creating the gasses using electricity, they should be collected separately.
Del

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#6
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Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 6:13 AM

I am creating the gas using an HHO drycell powered from my solar panels. The gas will come from the cell, go through 2 bubblers then a flashback arrestor before going underground to the bottles. The only way for the underground bottles to explode would be if all 3 of these safety measures were to fail which is highly unlikely. The flashback arrestor I am using is one built for a few different fuels including hydrogen.

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#8
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Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 7:40 AM

Ta
Interesting, had a quick shufti via that nice mr google... not sure why they are called drycells as they are pretty wet inside.
It looks like it's basically electrolysis, presumably using AC to minimise corrosion problems , which accounts for the gasses being mixed.
Good luck with your project, I'm a great believer in actually doing stuff.
Del

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#7

Re: An idea for safer storage of HHO

04/16/2014 7:36 AM

Can't you separate the two gasses and store them separately?

I'd be a little worried about autoignition, especially with the two gasses stored together. I have to admit ignorance about hydrogen, but I know that acetylene will autoignite at relatively low pressures and temperatures. That makes me concerned about your HHO/H2O2 mix given that you are compressing it.

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#9

Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

04/16/2014 10:12 PM

HHO is bogus terminology, used only by persons who don't know what they are talking about, and/or scammers.

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#10
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

04/17/2014 2:10 AM

'Sidewalk' is a bogus terminology for 'pavement'.

Give the guy a break, he's producing the gas and storing it, so he obviously does know what he's talking about.
HHO is a more convenient shorthand than "Brown's Gas" or "Hydrogen Oxygen Mixture"

Although, having said that 'HOM' has a certain ring to it.

I have no problem with people taking digs at the do nothing random question askers.

BUT...
There are too few people actually doing stuff, so when we find one, maybe we should be welcoming them on board?

Using solar to produce gas is one way of storing the energy and it may be more practical, cheaper, whatever than a shed full of batteries... i dunno, but I'm willing to learn.

Del

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#11

Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/01/2014 10:11 AM

Look: If you wish to kill yourself, then continue, and be my guest, use this stupid electrolysis without separation of the gases. If you on the other hand wish to use hydrogen, try this:

CCHOD: catalytic carbon induced hydgrogen on demand. This source is limited in flow rate and pressure only be the quantity of aluminum and water (and catalytic carbon) contained, the reactor container design, etc. It produces an absolutely pure hydrogen stream (neglecting the water vapor from 60┬░C reactor operation). It does require heating up, usually from a waste heat source, to get things going, but after that becomes self-sustaining. There is no oxygen produced by the aqueous oxidation of aluminum. Use your beer cans, I bet you have plenty of those around.

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#12
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/02/2014 3:58 PM

Tell me how to power CCHOD on solar or else I will dismiss it as stupid.

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#13
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/05/2014 10:09 AM

You use scrap aluminum as the source of hydrogen with CCHOD. Water, scrap aluminum, and catalytic carbon. Look it up under Phillips Company (not Phillips Petroleum in Bartlesville, OK). Beer cans work just fine, but shredding them is necessary for best results. The resulting Aluminum hydroxide sludge can be recycled back to aluminum, or disposed as non-hazardous material, since this is one of the more abundant substances on earth. There are other things you can look into as well, such as a Magnesium energy cycle, but you don't have (and never will) the equipment to produce magnesium in any big way. One can produce magnesium from silicon and magnesium oxide, but the silicon would probably be made from silicon dioxide and carbon heated to high temperature in an electric (or perhaps solar) furnace. The direct formation of magnesium from the oxide requires a laser heated furnace, far hotter than solar can be focused to.

If on the other hand, you wish to produce pure hydrogen by electrolysis from renewables, then you should consider purchasing the equipment from a reputable dealer. The equipment is basically a fuel-cell (PEM type, I suspect), operated in driven mode, not driving mode. Applied power results in hydrogen at the cathode, and oxygen at the anode. I suggest having another unit on-hand that only ever operates as fuel cell driving mode, since the first application of hydrogen at the anode on the hydrolyzer would result in a hazardous mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.

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#14
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/05/2014 10:14 AM

BTW the CCHOD idea and technology came from a registerd public engineer. What are you?

One final suggestion on your "HHO", maybe you could experiment with a gas separator? A nice Pt membrane might work, or it also might just cause the whole thing to light up and go KKKKAAAAPPPHHHLLLUUUIII!!! You might know hard-headed Scot would be trying this at home. By the way, although American, I am more Scot by blood than English or German.

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#15
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/07/2014 10:16 AM

came from a registerd public engineer. What are you?Oh dear that's a bit of a lame let down...
Over all my engineering career, I've generally found that ability is inversely proportional to qualifications.Bits of paper?.. who gives a toss?Lets have some respect for those who get off their ass and build stuff, even if it's not our bag.

Del

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#16
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/07/2014 1:05 PM

Gee whiz Del. Thanks for catching my minor typographical error. So sorry! By the way, I am not a registered public engineer, just stayed at Holiday Inn last night. But I do have a Ph.D. in physical chemistry, so I am pretty sure (IMHO) what works in reality and what does not work, in certain issues.

The gentleman who invented CCHOD (yes, it takes a specially prepared catalyst for this to work), is a registered public engineer. Yes he does build things, and is way more experimental than I am. I tinker around with some engine designs and projections, but beyond that, no.

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#17
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/07/2014 1:10 PM

You can use solar to initially heat up the CCHOD reactor, but that's about it, unless you can find a way to make aluminum metal using just solar energy.

You could also use magnesium, but that makes hydrogen + steam. You could use the hot, pressurized gas to drive a turbine, then cool and purify the hydrogen, and compress it all you want into storage bottles. To make magnesium is quite difficult, but can be done indirectly if you do not mind having a carbon footprint that is rather large. The Chinese produce far more magnesium than does the US, and they use the carbon reduction of silica (electric furnace method), then silicon reacts in electric furnace with MgO. Much carbon dioxide is released in this process, and a lot of electric power to keep furnace hot enough. I suppose you could just use solar furnace instead at about 100-200 sols.

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#20
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Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

07/05/2016 9:55 AM

I have a better answer. I plan on using something very similar to CCHOD (see Phillips Co.), for generating a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen under pressure (with flash-back preventer in place), that will be heating a small steam cycle...

CC (catalytic carbon) is between the anode and cathode with saturates bicarbonate of soda as electrolyte.

One obtains a mixture of the gases throughout the cell, more oxygen near the anode (of course), and more hydrogen near the cathode (of course). There is only one gas vent tube on my reactor.

The thing to watch out for in any situation like this:

(1) no chloride concentration in the water - any generation of chlorine with hydrogen present will explode instantly on UV light exposure.

(2) It is not necessary to apply large voltages, 6-12 volts is way plenty. 2-3 amps is about the normal current application. After about ten days running (not sure if the requirement is continuous running, or accumulative, as no one in our group has tested that part of it), the thing may develop a N.A.E., and transmute something, as we have detected radiation at 20 times background a number of times now, all in open vat systems (not under pressure). The radiation ceases to be elevated after about 15-20 minutes (as if the radioactive emitter evaporates, or the N.A.E. is consumed).

(3) I will be setting the first serious calorimetry experiment of our group on this, although others in the group have looked at infrared signal, multiplexing temperature measurements, etc. We think there may actually be some quantity of "excess" heat, although such heat is not excess in the general sense, only when the chemical potential sense of heat is considered. Certainly cold fusion, or transmutations, if taking place mean that physics has entered into consideration.

(4)Consider the works of President Ohmasa of Japan Technico, Ltd. with HHO, storage of the gas in aluminum cylinders (the hydrogen leaks out after two years, something is still there that burns with intense heat)

http://changingpower.net/japanese-technologist-sees-water-as-energy-source/

(5) Consider how long you can store your gases in plastic bottles underground before the hydrogen permeates out, saturates the ground with hydrogen, and you have a real issue on your hands.

Good luck, over and out.

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#18

Re: An Idea For Safer Storage of HHO

05/09/2014 11:52 AM

Be sure to store it only in your neighbors yard - as far as possible from your own place.

The entire HHO thing is stupid beyond belief and exceedingly dangerous.

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#19

Just wondering

07/02/2016 4:10 AM

Do you know of anyone that has done research with storing hho gas in solution. I lightly did a google search and I found very little info on this. I did find some vague references to composite tanks and some automotive agency powering a demo car.Any info would be appreciated.Thanks in advance.

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#21
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Re: Just wondering

07/05/2016 10:02 AM

There is no storing large amounts of HHO, or hydrogen mixed with oxygen that is safe. Storing the gases separately is easily done, and the separated gases can be stored, compressed, liquefied, etc.

One would be far safer attempting to store chain ball lightening in a mason jar.

Why not just use the gases in a burner and recycle some easily recoverable metal that can be used in a battery?

OR you could burn off the HHO gases to drive a distillation process, produce liquid transportable fuel from wood, or other chemical process that requires a heat input to arrive at a valued and useful product.

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