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Guru
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Methyl Hydrate Mining - the Way Forward, or Backward?

04/17/2014 4:44 AM
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Guru
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#1

Re: Methane Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/17/2014 5:12 AM

Sorry - that should've been "Methane Hydrate" . Admins - please correct title.

That'll teach me for posting before sufficient coffee intake!

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Guru
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Methane Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/17/2014 11:20 AM

Another fracking type controversy again?
Del

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Guru
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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Methane Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/18/2014 4:38 PM

The potential, in terms of energy output, makes fracking look like a very insignificant drop in the ocean. The potential benefits to mankind could be huge. The potential risks, and potential disruption are on the same scale.

So, yes!

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Guru

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#3

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/17/2014 12:01 PM

Methane Hydrate is one of the three or so credible theories on the Bermuda triangle (along with alcohol consumption and fast moving storms).

If an event such as a landslide on the edge of the continental shelf causes the pressure to drop on a large deposit of methane hydrate then the water that a ship was sailing on is now a big bunch of wet bubbles. Buoyancy is the force exerted by the fluid on the bottom of the ship. If the ship is sitting on a huge stream of methane from the bottom of the ocean then the buoyancy will go down. When the buoyancy goes down the ship can go down too.

This would require a huge release of methane. The article is suggesting that the ocean holds a huge supply of methane.

Human error and bad weather are probably the top reasons ships disappear in the Atlantic. Drug runners stealing boats is high on the list too. I don't know where methane hydrate appears on the list but I'm sure that it is higher on the list than UFOs.

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Guru
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#4

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/17/2014 12:48 PM

There is a huge deposit of Methyl Hydrate in the sea bed and on heating just above room temperature gives out fuel. Gas gets trapped in rock from dissolved gas in water and finally gets frozen at lower temperatures.

There are some problems in mining the rock. There are high chances of explosion. The gas is toxic and may have sudden release of gas in high concentrations and it may cause serious changes in the environment.

Tempering with sea environment will be three times more disastrous than what we see on open earth. Sea is a living system with more working life system which maintains the earth environment.

I am very sure few developed countries and developing countries are highly attracted by this source of energy.

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Guru
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#9
In reply to #4

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/28/2014 11:02 AM

Read again oh lucid one! Japan already has production wells, and Alaska is where the test wells were made several years ago. This is going to take place, and on a large scale. As to the concerns about carbon dioxide, methane is readily converted to carbon and hydrogen, given the correct conditions. Furthermore, I should be greatly more concerned about natural events driving the so-called massive methane releases, similar to what is conjectured off the coast of Norway that may have led to the little ice age, or one of the other global cooling events.

Besides, what will the government do with all the used microwaves from the giant warehouses? And with a sucker being born every minute, there should be no problem reducing the pressure over the drill hole. Actually, I have no idea how this recovery is supposed to work, but I suspect there is a trick to it that leaves the "blue ice" in its place except where the techique is locally applied. The real question: how much can be produced, how fast, and at what cost? If the scale and economics are there, they will build it.

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Guru
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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/28/2014 11:21 AM

James Stewart:

Any thermonuclear device exploded in this deep deposit will cause Tsunami that will swallow few countries. It is a war in no man's territory just waiting to happen. At some places it can cause chain reaction that may run hundreds of miles. Already under sea Volcanic activity is triggering Tsunami so the greed will have a good way to get rid of the world population. Just push few nukes there and that is all.

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Guru
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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/28/2014 2:32 PM

I don't think anyone was thinking of using thermonuclear explosions to release the gas. I was however, thinking of the power vacuum in Washington, D.C. area (they are sucking up all the power, with none of the "normal" governement output to the people) could be used to lower the pressure down there and recover the methane.

Wow, you certainly did create a horrific scenario with just a few short words. Nature could do this all by herself, without our help. In the meantime, there are places where there are no trees because they lack the education to know that they could be using natural gas for cooking, etc. De-forestation goes a long way toward ruining the habitat for all of creation, no just humans. Since birds come from dinosaurs, what right do we have for removing their homes, just as an example?

Let us try and move forward on a more positive note: It is a reality, and it will only move forward if the market forces at play determine that. Not simply because some government somewhere backs it with massive subsidies.

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Guru
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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/28/2014 6:29 PM

Yes, it is a vast resource and sometime or other will be used at many places for different purposes. Sea chemistry is temperature profile driven so much of the chemistry is changing over time. Human activity will also start changing it.

India is also planning to tap the resource even though right now we are only tracking the resource and not involved in sea mining except for Petroleum. India, China, Japan and few other countries sure will be keen if it is feasible to do so in shallow water.

I just warned about this stuff becoming of great danger sometime in the future but not immediately. It can also be a naturally triggered accident.

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Guru

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/28/2014 10:56 PM

"If the scale and economics are there, they will build it." --------- regardless of environmental consequences.

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Guru
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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/29/2014 1:39 AM

Devil will dance. I just wish that earth remain a place to live. My country is also very keen in such resources. Here is location map for Methane Hydrate.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/29/2014 9:23 AM

Look at it this way. None of us is guaranteed tomorrow on this rock. The best plan is to take care of your family, your community, and others in that order. If "blue ice" is so great, and readily "mined", then it will be, but if something less expensive and complicated comes along, that will win out. Personally, I like solar thermal using the Kalina cycle (ammonia - water system) as the working fluid. Other binary systems like that (already way more efficient than steam by itself), could be worked out, possibly even ternary systems with greater temperature slope in the evaporation and condensation steps, and that have better low pressure end at temperatures that will work well with air-cooled condensers. Bio-fuels will eventually outpace even petroleum, since the investment to achieve a yield is lower, and processing will resemble a "normal" refinery at some point. In the last twenty years, an astounding advancement in understanding of algal culture has been made....who knows what the next twenty years will bring? Robots are already taking over the battlefield, in some scenarios, and who knows when that will be the norm, and humankind will have to find better things to do than kill one another?

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Guru

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the way forward, or backward?

04/29/2014 10:37 PM

Unless intellectual property laws change again we know for sure that the Verenium cellulosic process now owned by BP will become pubic domain in about 18 years. In combination with the legalization of industrial hemp as a feed stock it may have significant impact on the liquid transportation fuels markets.

There is good reason cellulosic ethanol and industrial hemp are kept buried and blurred in the spin and mud.

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Guru

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#6

Re: Methyl Hydrate Mining - the Way Forward, or Backward?

04/19/2014 5:22 PM

Hugh potential - lots of it.

Hugh risk - seriously bad greenhouse gas and it's still a fossil fuel which will become CO2.

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Guru
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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Methane Hydrate Mining - the Way Forward, or Backward?

04/19/2014 6:14 PM

Who's Hugh? I he a big guy?

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Guru

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Methane Hydrate Mining - the Way Forward, or Backward?

04/19/2014 7:21 PM

Hells Bells! How did that happen? I must be losing it!

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