CR4® - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®


Previous in Forum: Brinell Hardness Testing   Next in Forum: H2 Max 4 PPM
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14

Welding Procedure Specifications

09/11/2014 6:25 AM

Dear all,

I have a confusion regarding WPS and PQR as per ASM section IX. I want some help from you.

I have qualified a welding procedure of a butt weld having plate thicknesses of 8 mm i.e. (T1=8mm & T2= 8 mm), material is stainless steel (SS 304L) and process is GTAW. I then developed WPS based upon the qualified welding procedure.

Now I have to make two fillet welds of same material having following thicknesses:

Fillet weld 1: T1=28mm and T2=8mm

Fillet weld 1: T1=8mm and T2=2mm

Now my questions are:

1. Should I qualify a welding procedure for fillet welds separately or I can use the same PQR for butt weld to make a fillet weld?

2. If I can use the same PQR for making fillet weld then what welding parameters (voltage, current,wfs etc.) will used in WPS for fillet welds?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Procedure Qualification
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Out of your mind! Not in sight!
Posts: 3975
Good Answers: 92
#1

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/11/2014 11:37 PM

No replys yet?

It seems to me you are qualified to make welding procedures and you already have done so. Now with your post you are confusing me as with your qualification you should be able to answer your own question.

I will try to answer it with a thought:

Since you do not know if you can use the same welding parameters for the fillet weld I would think that a new procedure would be best to furnish. Now if you was to ask about the parameters I will have to pass. This is not my expertise.

Rephrase your question maybe and somebody might be able to give you advice.

T2 with 2 mm looks quiet small what is this?

__________________
Common Sense Dictates
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 103
Good Answers: 4
#2

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 12:26 AM

AS per ASME section IX QW 451.4, the following is mentioned

Fille tweld is qualified when the groove weld is qualified in accordance with either QW 451.1 or 451.2.

So, if you have qualified on groove welds, you need not qualify the WPS for fillet welds. Second question, only guidelines are available. Less current for less thickness, higher current fot higher thickness of material.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 12:49 AM

Thanks for the guidance.

I think my second question is somewhat confusing so let me explain it.

If I am going to use the same PQR for making a fillet weld then should i use the same parameters that are mentioned in PQR or the parameters could be different? i.e. WPS for fillet weld should contain the same parameters mentioned in PQR of butt weld or it could be different?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 608
Good Answers: 32
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 2:57 AM

For GTAW Electrical Characteristics are not essential variables. See QW-256 (GTAW) and QW-409. ASME Section IX

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 5:16 AM

Yes its non essential.

Now things are clear.

Many thanks for your guidance.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 5:29 AM

One more thing to clear.

I have qualified butt weld on 8mm test plate. Now I am going to make a fillet weld of 2 mm component with 8 mm. Now I have to make a WPS for this job. My question is what welding parameter range (i.e. current, voltage, wfs etc.) I will write in this new WPS as these parameters would be entirely different from those used in making a butt weld having plate thickness of 8mm.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 608
Good Answers: 32
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 7:57 AM

Thickness 2 mm. GTAW. Sure?

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/12/2014 8:48 AM

Yes. I have to weld nozzle having tube thickness of 2 mm with cylinder having thickness of 8 mm.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 608
Good Answers: 32
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/13/2014 2:16 AM

Sorry, nozzle?, branch conection?, weldolet? sockolet? t=2mm

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chennai - India.
Posts: 273
Good Answers: 18
#9

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/13/2014 1:09 AM

1. Should I qualify a welding procedure for fillet welds separately or I can use the same PQR for butt weld to make a fillet weld?

a) No separate PQR is required for qualifying fillets once your PQR was established on a groove butt joint. Butt joints automatically qualifies groove butts from 1.60 mm to 16 mm (double the thickness used) and all sizes of fillets on all thicknesses of plates and sheets.

Hence you can used the same PQR for your fillet joints also irrespective of thickness.

2. If I can use the same PQR for making fillet weld then what welding parameters (voltage, current,wfs etc.) will used in WPS for fillet welds.

a) This again hypothetical and welding parameters depends up on the size of fillet and thickness of plate or sheet. In your case, u do not require a separate WPS.

You have not mentioned the fillet leg. tungsten and filler metal sizes etc.

Assume the leg to be 6 mm or so in first case (if it is not dissimilar fillet leg size. then it could be 20 * 6 mm) and min. of 2 to 3 in the second case.

With 2 mm filler & 2.4 mm tungsten, you can use in between 65 to 75 amps & 12 to 13 volts (multi-pass technique) and app. 45- 50 amps & 11 to 12 volts for 2.0 mm (single pass) sheet.

Hope above details will help u and you can add or reduce 10 % depending up on position.

Sridhar.

__________________
What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us: while what we have done for other and the society remains and is immortal.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/13/2014 3:44 AM

Many thanks Sridhar.

One more thing to clear.

I have qualified butt weld on 8mm test plate. Now I am going to make a fillet weld of 2 mm component with 8 mm. Now I have to make a WPS for this job. My question is what welding parameter range (i.e. current, voltage, wfs etc.) I will write in this new WPS as these parameters would be entirely different from those used in making a butt weld having plate thickness of 8mm.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chennai - India.
Posts: 273
Good Answers: 18
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/13/2014 7:31 AM

For fillet with 2 mm sheet GTAW process the parameters could be 40 - 45 amps & 11 to 12 volts, 6.00 mm nozzle opening and a weld travel speed of 10 to 12 cms. per minute.

But, you may require a Pulsed TIG process in place of conventional TIG while welding on 2 mm thick sheet as it may avoid burn throughs (on 2 mm sheet) during welding.

If u do not have, increase the travel speed or reduce amps by 10% or so. Using 1.60 mm filler wire with 2.0 mm Tungsten could be better. wfs is applicable in MIG only.

Sridhar.

__________________
What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us: while what we have done for other and the society remains and is immortal.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 94
Good Answers: 5
#13

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/14/2014 11:59 AM

1. Should I qualify a welding procedure for fillet welds separately or I can use the same PQR for butt weld to make a fillet weld?

Butt weld will qualify fillet weld.

Ref:- ASME BPVC QW 202.2(c) Qualification of Fillet weld

Ref:- ASME BPVC Sec-VIII Div-1 UG-84(h)(2)

"When the welding procedure employed for production welding is used for fillet welds only, it shall be qualified by a groove weld qualification test."

2. If I can use the same PQR for making fillet weld then what welding parameters (voltage, current, wfs etc.) will used in WPS for fillet welds?

You can alter electrical parameters to suit your welding requirement as long as weld metal is free from toughness requirement. Electrical parameters are non essential variables in general case.However, it is better to stay with in +/- 10% to 15% variation from PQR values.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Welding Procedure Specifications

09/14/2014 3:25 PM

Many thanks.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 14 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

IdeaSmith (1); IRSHAD (1); sanweld (1); shayanhussain (6); SRIDHAR (2); Whitephone (3)

Previous in Forum: Brinell Hardness Testing   Next in Forum: H2 Max 4 PPM

Advertisement