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Member

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6

Change In Group Number In PQR

12/22/2014 6:29 AM

Dear friends,

I have WPS and PQR (for SMAW) qualifying a material of P no.1 and Group No.1. Can I use the same for another material of P no.1 and group no.2, as group number is supplimentary essential variable as per ASME Sec.IX. it is mentioned in QW-403.5 that "this variable does not apply when impact testing is not required by other sections". Can you please make this concept clear for me? how can we decide whether Impact test is required or not? waiting for your reply

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Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
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#1

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/22/2014 4:35 PM

Ask your customer.

They are the final authority.

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Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 608
Good Answers: 32
#2

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 1:09 AM

ASME IX relates to the qualification of welding procedures and welder qualification. See QW-100 to the full scope.

QW- 171.1 is clear regarding to the application of the charpy (Impact test)
.......when requiered by other sections.........

Then, for example, if your construction code is ASME B-31.3 (Process piping) you must apply the requirements of Chapter III (Materials) Point 323.2.2 and table 323.2.2A. (Thikness, Temperature, materials......)for toughness test.

Another example is if you are using ASME VIII div.1 (Pressure Vessels) the you have to apply the requirements of Sub section C and UG 84.

Everything depends on the construction code that you are using.

WP

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Member

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 3:46 AM

Thank you brothers..

Actually our project is a storage tank repair work, ie; bottom plate replacement. so client mentioned that new plates shall be selected in accordance with API 650&653, and material is ASTM A 537 CL1. (P no.1 & group no.2).

in API 650 sec.9.2.2, it is not mentioned in which case Impact test is required. also from 4.2.8 and 4.2.9 i couldn't find the information.

in 9.2.2.3, it is specified that, "for all materials to be used at a design metal temp below 10°C the qualification of the welding procedure for vertical joints shall include impact test.If vertical joints are to be made by a machine, automatic or semiautomatic process, impact test of HAZ shall also be made."

so if design temperature is above 10°C and manual welding process (SMAW-flat position), is Impact test not required?

from which section of API 650&653 i can find out the criteria to decide whether Impact test is required or not?

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Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 608
Good Answers: 32
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 5:34 AM

Yes, if your constrution standard is API 650 addenda 2011. Then you have to check the following points:

4.2.11. 2 to 4

4.2.12

4.2.10

Fig 4.1A and 4.1B

WP

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Member

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Posts: 6
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 6:16 AM

I think these sections are about Impact test requirement for the plate which we use for project execution, not for welding procedure qualifications.

For my work, as I explained in previous messages, should I prepare new WPS and PQR for material with P no.1 and group no.2 ; and perform Impact test? Pls rply

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Guru

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mineral wells Tx
Posts: 608
Good Answers: 32
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 7:28 AM

The criteria is the same. Governs: thickness, temperature and service.
Required values are determined in point 9.2.2
WP

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Member

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Posts: 6
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 7:43 AM

Ok.. Thank you for the help..

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Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston ,Texas
Posts: 17
#8

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 9:37 AM

No, you cannot use this procedure as you are out of the materials range of P1 Gr.1 . You will have to write a new welding procedure specification (WPS) and produce a procedure qualification weld (PQR)using the materials specified per your clients requirements to meet the API or other code used in the rework on the storage tank.

It is simplest to always work with well written and qualified or better than procedures, think about how you can utilize procedures to perform multi purpose, here are some fyi ......

(1) use qualified materials for the test procedure in your PQR, impact tested where possible from the supplier and hardness surveys.

(2) PQR should have v notch .

(3) PQR hardness surveys.

(4) Use the PQR to show traceability, add the numbers of filler metals batches, all heat numbers, and labs number to your PQR for the documentation, then attach the materials and labs data for later reference, it will make your next project, much easier. This takes a small amount more investment however they will pay for themselves in the future if this is your primary industry.

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Member

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 6
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Change In Group Number In PQR

12/23/2014 11:36 PM

yes.. I am going to prepare a new WPS & PQR.

Thank you so much....

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