Automotive Technology Blog

Automotive Technology

The Automotive Technology Blog is the place for conversation and discussion about electrical/electronic components, materials, design & assembly, and powertrain systems. Here, you'll find everything from application ideas, to news and industry trends, to hot topics and cutting edge innovations.

Previous in Blog: Will GM Really Hire More EV Engineers?   Next in Blog: Saga of the Unsafe Seatbelt – Part 1
Close
Close
Close
40 comments

Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

Posted January 05, 2011 8:30 AM by Steve Melito

Beginning next year, Ford plans to equip cars and sports utility vehicles (SUVs) for the U.S. market with Auto Start-Stop, a technology that kills the engine automatically when the vehicle comes to a stop. When the driver releases the brake pedal, such as when a red light turns green, the vehicle's engine restarts automatically. According to the American automaker, Auto Start-Stop will cut fuel consumption by as much as 10% while curbing emissions.

Although Auto Start-Stop is still under development, Ford is confident that its fuel-saving technology, which is already available in Europe, will be ready for the U.S. market by 2012. After outfitting its new generation of direct-injection four-cylinder engines, Ford will move onto cars and SUVs (but not trucks) with six- or eight-cylinder engines. Direct injection, which squirts fuel directly into the cylinders, is necessary because it enables the engine to start more quickly. Also essential is an electric water pump, which circulates coolant even when the engine is stopped.

For Ford engineers, the main technological hurdle is maintaining adequate transmission-fluid pressure in vehicles with automatic transmissions. Components such as a sturdier starter-motor are already complete. But with all these starts and stops, will Ford vehicles require additional maintenance?

Source: Autoweek

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11109
Good Answers: 918
#1

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 9:49 AM

Would be better if more lights were simply synchronized. Not only do you save gas and time not having to stop, you don't have to waste gas accelerating again.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 10:31 AM

Hey AH, hope no hard feelings. Last weekend got pretty wild at my house.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11109
Good Answers: 918
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 1:36 PM

Wish I was there! I think... ;-)))

No problems. Keeps us on our toes.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 467
#2

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 10:29 AM

The transition should be fun to witness.................unless I'm in front of one of these cars!

Light turns green, gas pedal halfway to the floor when engine restarts.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8378
Good Answers: 774
#4

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 12:13 PM

this sounds oddly familiar. Didn't we cover this a week or two ago?

That up to 10% fuel savings will only happen in heavy start and stop traffic conditions the rest of the time, normal highway driving, it will have no measurable effect that would ever come close to justifying the added cost the vehicle will have by fuel savings.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 6962
Good Answers: 283
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 1:20 PM

tcmtech, I thought you had a good point (in the other thread) about keeping the heater/defroster going for us cold weather drivers. The elec water pump for cooling is discussed, but not your question about generating/keeping some heat.

And if you want a car that stops running by itself, buy a Cavalier!

__________________
When you come to a fork in the road, take it. (Yogiism)
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8378
Good Answers: 774
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 5:22 PM

Thats just one of the many things about these fuel savings concepts that rub me the wrong way. For some reason the auto manufactures seem to think the hole world lives in a city and stops moving every block or two.

There is whole second half to automotive usage that none of this fuel saving crap does a dam bit of good for. If anything it just creates more upfront cost and more driving hassles while not saving a dime for us who put ion real miles on a vehicle in its life time.

I for one run my cars to 250,000 or more miles before they get replaced and pickups get ran until they get hauled away for scrap iron.

"And if you want a car that stops running by itself, buy a Cavalier! "

Ford not only copied that but appear to have expanded on it. Sometimes the engine quits but everything else still thinks it running and other times everything else quits but the engine stays on.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 331
Good Answers: 10
#11
In reply to #7

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 8:56 AM

I am with you on this one. When are they going to build a car for those of us who drive the interstate to and from work every day? The new 6 speed transmissions will help with it but the horrible cD needs to be fixed.

I already do the start stop on my own. It would be nice if the car did it for me! I only have 2 miles of street lights to drive each way to work. I hope they put in an electric cabin heater and AC compressor. It gets hot/cold without those.

__________________
"We cannot sow thistles and reap clover. Nature simply does not run things that way. She goes by cause and effect." Napoleon Hill
Reply
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1387
Good Answers: 31
#8

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/05/2011 11:06 PM

Recent generation cars do not stop automatically. But few decades ago, many cars were there, which used to autostop any time, mid traffic and anywhere (and do not start even if the driver tries to start). New generations may not be knowing the great fun of cranking the engine for trying to restart the car, by a long cranking handle (which was multi function... for cranking the engine as well as using it as a weapon in case ....)

So auto stop is not an invention, it is revival of very old technology.

Assured aotorestart is really creditable. Hope this autostart will not work, even when the driver is not in his seat.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 102
Good Answers: 8
#9

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:48 AM

The 1968/ Toyota Crown (2.3 litre ohc) showed the outsize starter etc in the owner's manual.

I believe it was mandatory in Japan then for larger vehicles.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1791
Good Answers: 75
#10

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 8:53 AM

Nope. When cars will start EVERY TIME I want them to, and immediately (not after a few seconds, let alone minutes, of cranking) I'll CONSIDER it. But even then only if the manufacturer actually seems to a)have a reputation for being always able and willing to get the job done, building a good, reliable product, and b)if I don't have to pay extra for THEIR bright ideas.

Don't try to sell me on an "improvement", if its something I didn't want in the first place. You waste your time, and my time AND money.

And I DO drive in traffic quite a bit. And I cannot imagine being any happier to wait behind the poor soul whose car quit by design, than I am behind the one who's car quit because of disrepair. Add in those whose vehicle quits because, while it is the best they could afford, its still none to good, and you have a brew that is just unsupportable in a summer or winter traffic jam.

Forget it. The eggheads who came up with this idea don't live in OUR work world.

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Good Answers: 2
#12

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 9:30 AM

All for it because:

Here in NYC there are an INCREDIBLE number of people that let their cars idle, and I don't mean a few seconds. One guy had his van running next to my house for 20 min. and that's from when I first noticed it. Another woman on my block comes out, starts her car and then goes back in the house for a half hour. I asked these people about why and the van driver said he was there less than five minutes (not true, but so what?) and the woman said her mother insisted she warm up the engine each time before she leaves. This was just this past weekend.

I've given up trying to give people like this a clue; saying anything puts me in the position of minding someone else's business (so I'm told by these idiots). My typical approach nowadays is to simply call out "Hey you left your engine running!" as they walk away and leave it at that. If they're sitting in the vehicle, after about 20 minutes I go out and point out that fumes are seeping into my house (if I'm lucky they go idle a block away). I could go on and on and on.

Sure there are laws here against idling for more that two minutes, but no one cares. Forget red lights, these and many, MANY more examples here waste much more fuel that a few seconds at an intersection. Manditory engine shut-off? I'm all for it

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8378
Good Answers: 774
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 11:34 AM

We have that here as well. Its called having f*#%ing cold winters. Its common around here for people to leave their vehicle run the whole day if its cold enough. Same with many businesses they leave their work fleets sit and run 24 hours a day if the weather is bad enough.

I have no problem with that being I can afford the fuel and I like having a warm vehicle with clean windows when I come out of a store.

Oh ya, not everyone is against this planet warming up!

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1791
Good Answers: 75
#18
In reply to #12

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:52 PM

You can have it, where you need it. But what gripes me is when the decision is made that because you need it, we all need it. WE don't!

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 323
Good Answers: 2
#13

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 9:45 AM

Hi Moose, In many European countries you have to turn off your engine at traffic lights and bridge booms etc, the reason is to minimise the exaust gas emissions while in a built up area like a town or city! This new idea of Fords is a great idea, and I hope that it will come over here to Europe as soon as possible.

Xanasax

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2363
Good Answers: 63
#15

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:13 PM

Sounds like a great idea for Ford to increase turnover in the car market. How many cars on cold days have trouble starting,and if you only drive 10 miles or so to work with stop lights every 1/4 mile or so, you spend most of your time stopping and starting. I foresee a lot of stalled cars at stop lights and subsequent traffic problems. Especially as they begin to age. The starters are obviously going to age much more rapidly, meaning instead of replacement every 4 or 5 years you replace them every year or 6 months. Replacement of starters would become a critical maintenance issue that must be done routinely rather than when the starter begins to act up. So another $100 part, plus they will likely locate them in a very tight position requiring special tools that only Ford supplies, so add $300 for labor. figure an additional $400 a year minimum on maintenance rather than $400 every 5 years (DYI you might end up with $100 but more likely every 6 months). Starter replacements will become almost like oil changes.

Also, it will be good for the tow truck industry as people would no longer be able to drive to the shop if they can get the vehicle started, if they have a starter problem (which are fairly common in vehicles a few years old).

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#24
In reply to #15

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 1:45 PM

Bigger batteries are installed as are higher output alternators and better quality starters.

Also the car software is clever enough NOT to stop the motor if the battery is empty!!!!

DUUUUUUHHHHHHH!!

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2363
Good Answers: 63
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 2:46 PM

I hadn't considered the battery being drained, as that would be simple, but does it know not to stop the car if the start is problematic about starting, as starters (even heavier duty starters) tend to be as they wear. Seems like your response had not considered the basic mechanics of a car after a few years of operation, which most engineers actually have to consider in design of longer term facilities and systems. The point is this system seems to be designed for rapid turnover in the vehicles such that older vehicles would be even less viable without even greater O&M costs. This is admittedly a concern of the car industry, as they depend on sales of new vehicles and older vehicles eat into their perceived profitability. Plus those heavier components can be charged for at a higher rate, since they cost more plus markup. So obviously any one working for the manufacturers would likely favor this, except of course in the fact it would highlight maintenance issues. Also mechanics would favor anything that brings vehicles into the shop to be evaluated and allows them to recommend expensive maintenance before hand (rather than waiting until there is an identified issue to address). And, well tow truck driver would appreciate those cars not being drivable when the starter has become problematic. Only people who might be unhappy would be the consumers, who have to pay for all this stuff on the recommendation of a high school graduate or wait until the problem is observable and then pay towing costs and other fees. Then there is the issue of shutting down a engine for 30 seconds to 1 minute on average (sometimes a little more if it is a smaller low traffic residential collector street feeding into a high traffic main), every time you stop, which substantially increase wear on the engine. In my own typical travel to work I would be starting and stopping my engine 8 times in a trip of 3 miles, versus the typical of 1 time.

Seems like it would just be more cost beneficial for consumers to reduce the distance of travel for people to work, since in some areas people travel 1 to 2 hour to and from work every day. Decentralize competing industries away from being in close proximity to each other (why exactly do all the major software companies need to be in Santa Clara/Palo Alto). Flatten cost of living pay scales more to reduce the benfits to worker who travel into places like LA, NYC or Bay Area. Probably save a huge amount more just by reducing the travel times spent on working.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#26
In reply to #25

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 3:41 PM

There is also a button to disable the stop/start functions for whiny, problem seeking people like you!! .....and in case there are starting problems.......

The starters are built with ball races instead of plain bearings, just like any regular motor for a long, long life!!

You are seeking to find problems, you obviously have had a bad Ford car many years ago and hate them.....why do you even bother to post here?

Is your whole life such a string of problems? Mostly Self made?

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1791
Good Answers: 75
#30
In reply to #26

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 7:38 PM

Since you want to be insulting, why don't YOU have the guts to log in? You'd be a lot harder to ignore if we thought you had the courage of your convictions. But you seem typical of all the "I can solve all the problems of the world, if I can just force everyone else to do everything my way, without having to face the problems my solutions create" crowd.

You, because you haven't got the guts to face the issues you create, make yourself useless to those of us willing to "face the music".

And since I am willing to face it "Flame On".

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2363
Good Answers: 63
#31
In reply to #26

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 7:40 PM

It is hard to understand why self serving marketing intersts post on engineering blogs anonymously, in attempts to promote their own interests and then get so dismayed at any perceived criticism of their discourse. Nothing you have said has identified that the problems I eluded to were not valid considerations. Rather you have evaded the main point of this just increasing the cost unnecessarily to consumers, and potentially allowing a means for mechanics and manufacturers to justify unnecessary additional costs and expenses relating to purchase and maintenance of the vehicle. Unless of course you can demonstrate that the starters are going to be cheaper and reduce the cost of these vehicles. If you want to make a rational valid point then demonstrate how this will save on capital and O&M cost for the consumers. If people could disable such an annoying feature with a push of a button, how many would you expect to disable it, even envrionmental activists, within the first year of ownership, at which point the benefits are not gained. Subsequently, if it is going to cost people extra money (for a feature they will likely disable anyways), why should they buy it, considering that most consumers are not concerned enough about the environment to avoid driving 100 to 200 mile a day round trips to and from work for only $10,000 to $20,000 a year more income. This really doesn't have any air of improvement to it but rather more like a marketing gismo to charge more for the vehicle. As every working engineer and scientist knows, the bottom line for advancements is always the perceived cost to benefits ratio, and you have not demonstrated the improvement in benefits that would justify the costs, even when questioned as to such. You have just tried to attack the messenger in an attempt to stifle the question.

BTW I have owned a Ford Truck for a long time and it works fairly well enough. They make reasonable performing pick up trucks and have had a century of experience to develop this. US automobile manufacture have a poor track record for reasonably priced technical innovation, creativity and development. However, I must admit at least Ford did not need to be bailed out by the US government. Though in a truly capitalistic system representing the citizens, and not special interests, of the US, most of the current manufacturers would have went out of business many decades ago, and new possibly more innovative companies would have arose to meet the changing markets.

Reply
Guru
Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: 18N 65W o
Posts: 955
Good Answers: 27
#39
In reply to #31

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

10/24/2011 1:26 AM

Come on that's not true. While Europe was developing radial tires and disk brakes, we implemented rectangular headlights. As for innovation, what could be more innovative than Aztec?

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#16

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:34 PM

Already been done. There is BMW has one here in the UK that does it, a friend was driving me around last year and the engine stopped at the lights, restarted when she took her foot off the brake. If you're really interested I'll see if I can find out the model nr.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2363
Good Answers: 63
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:45 PM

A $50,000 BMW with the full warranty versus a $15,000 Ford with the limitted Warranty?

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1791
Good Answers: 75
#20
In reply to #17

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:56 PM

I don't know what a Beemers reliability is like, but I wouldn't buy a Ford that required reliability due to a designed in "defect" like shutting itself off every time I stopped it. I say "defect" because I wouldn't ever trust a Ford to restart just because it was designed to do so.

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 2363
Good Answers: 63
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 1:06 PM

And Ford is actually not the worst US manufacturer, imagine what would happen on a GM product where you get about 40% of the parts from Canada mixed with Parts from all over the US and Mexico, some metric mixed in with Standard sizes.

However, Manufacturers would probably like this idea as they would see this as a money making opportunity to charge for more repair and replacement constantly as a maintenance recommendation versus when something is actually beginning to show signs of failure.

On the plus side it would probably make hybrids much more palatable

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. VA, USA (No, it does NOTu mean "won't go"!)
Posts: 1791
Good Answers: 75
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 1:10 PM

"However, Manufacturers would probably like this idea..."

Indeed they would. And if they could make it mandated across the country, so much the better. Sell it to everyone by decree/law/fiat, whether THEY need it or not. Built in market, with little to no choice in the matter (most of us live where it isn't feasible to ride a bicycle everywhere, so all you inner city bicyclists lay off! And I can't drive the 200 miles into the boonies of Pennsylvania to see my grandkids on a BIKE!)

One more opportunity for our government to get in bed with business, and feed US the shaft!

__________________
Been away a while. Miss all my old friends. Some of you I KNOW are still around. Where are the rest?
Reply
Guru
Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: 18N 65W o
Posts: 955
Good Answers: 27
#40
In reply to #17

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

10/24/2011 1:28 AM

50,000? I'll buy two. Is this the model with the $18,000 transmission?

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11109
Good Answers: 918
#19
In reply to #16

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 12:54 PM

How does that work with a manual transmission?

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#23
In reply to #19

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 1:18 PM

I think it stopped if she put it in neutral and took her foot off the clutch. When she put the clutch down again, it restarted.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11109
Good Answers: 918
#27
In reply to #23

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 3:55 PM

Makes sense since the number of automatic transmissions in Europe barely outnumbers the number hairs on a frog's back. ;-)

Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
#36
In reply to #19

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/12/2011 10:17 PM

I have a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission. It set us back less than 20k new and gets about 45 mpg. It will shut down the engine while stopped. All you have to do is push in the clutch and slip it out of gear. As soon as you slip it back into gear the engine starts up. Since it is a hybrid, the car has a dual voltage system. The traditional 12 volt battery handles the lights, stereo and other amenities, while the higher voltage system (48v?) drives the motor/generator assist and the starter. There is no bendix slap and whir noise when the engine is turned over. It is quiet, efficient and barely noticeable. As far as starters failing on me, I haven't had that happen since I owned a '62 Ford. And I've run my cars about 10-15 years each.

As far as it being annoying? No. If anything it annoys me when it doesn't shut the engine off when I expect it to - usually because the engine is not warm enough yet or the A/C is not running in econo mode. This does not wear out the engine prematurely - it only happens when the engine is warm and it doesn't have time to cool down. Excessive engine wear occurs during cold engine running. It is not a result of the starter engaging.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9203
Good Answers: 1046
#28

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 6:34 PM

If the car battery is weak, stop and go traffic would probably finish it off. And in the summertime, the AC needs the power of the engine to adequately cool. I wouldn't want to be in the traffic jam caused by that first guy with the weak battery.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 423
Good Answers: 9
#29

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/06/2011 6:38 PM

Man, what a bunch of pessimists! Auto shut off has been part of the hybrid drive system control paradigm for years so it is not new technology. Even Porsche includes it as standard in their Panamera sedan, albeit with a manual over ride for us Americans.

I don't believe any automaker includes new technology just to get more money from customers - that's the opposite of how a market economy works and auto makers still have to respond to it. CAFE laws don't mandate technology either - they specify the requirement and leave private industry to find the means. Since Americans seem to want big cars with auto transmissions this is a reasonable way to eke out a few more MPG towards corporate average fuel economy by taking advantage of other technologies that have already entered the market. (direct injection, electric water pumps, heavy duty starters, etc.) Not to mention the benefits of reduced emmissions.

The arguments about putting real miles on a car are spurious as well. Auto makers are going to charge what the market will bear regardless of the technology and the additional wear and tear (if any) for highway drivers would be insignificant relative to miles driven.

Rant over - I would buy a car with auto shut off without a second thought. It could reduce my cost of ownership and the reliability of mass market cars today is so good I wouldn't worry about the technology failing. I'm more concerned with whether I feel I got good value for my money and my wife is happy.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England
Posts: 950
Good Answers: 48
#32

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/07/2011 8:16 AM

As has been noted, this is already done in Europe. I had a hire car in Germany a month or two back with this feature (Fiat or VW, I can't remember). I thought I had stalled it the first time, and only realized what was happening the second time. It only stopped when it was put in neutral and the clutch released. By the time you have it back in gear the engine is already running. Quite seamless, and you get used to it after a while and don't even notice it, although it only shuts down when the engine is fully warmed up and I was mostly on the highway anyway, so it didn't happen often. My questions would be:

1) Is this also done on diesel engines, or only petrol?

2) Is it even worth doing on diesel engines, considering the increased power required for starting, and the already better fuel consumption?

3) "will cut fuel consumption by as much as 10%" tells us nothing. If it were averaged out over all driving conditions and all drivers, what would the saving be, and would it justify the extra cost?

4) What would be the long term effects?

Since most of my driving involves short hops, 5 miles or so with few stops, or long spells on the highway, I doubt that I would see any benefit, so it doesn't interest me.

__________________
brianparker007@hotmail.com
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#33

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/12/2011 10:02 AM

Absolutely not.

There are many valid technical issues raised in other comments.
My additional concern, multifaceted, is response time.
There are many reasons that necessitate moving a vehicle "immediately" beyond the obvious military/law enforcement/semi-legal (vehicle respossession) applications.
[Right, those vehicles would be exempt- go bet your life, leave mine to me].
A "road rage" incident is an obvious example.

Recent GlobalSpec discussions here have pointed out other vehicle software issues that put one at risk. Why give the hackers another avenue.

We need a discussion on deleting or negating aspects of vehicle management software.

Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9
#37
In reply to #33

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/12/2011 10:23 PM

Your concerns are not valid. My Honda Civic Hybrid starts up so quick that I couldn't "stall" it if I tried. And I have tried. The starter is more reliable that the old 12 volt system starters, by a long shot.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
#34

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/12/2011 11:14 AM

I have owned one (made by HONDA) since 2002.

Americans are a day LATE and a dollar SHORT. WHY?

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11109
Good Answers: 918
#35
In reply to #34

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

01/12/2011 11:52 AM

"Americans are a day LATE and a dollar SHORT. WHY?"

We borrowed too much. :-/

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Red River Valley
Posts: 35
Good Answers: 1
#38

Re: Will You Buy a Car that Starts and Stops Itself?

03/10/2011 1:35 AM

NO - I would not have a vehicle that kills the engine when it is stoppped. Simply because where I live my access to the Hwy is a driveway onto a 4-lane where the cross traffic is cars & 18 wheelers doing anything from 55 to 90 MPH.!! I want a willing, running, dependable engine when I get a break to enter this Hwy...

Since the engine is only idling & pulling minimum load why not just cut off several cylinders, but keep the engine live, & save the starter & some fuel ???.

Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 40 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Hero (5); Anonymous Poster (3); Critcho (2); Dave Wesely (2); Doorman (1); gsuhas (1); guitarhunter (1); Holzfeller (1); JRiversW (1); JWthetech (2); kramarat (2); micahd02 (5); Oldr&wiser (1); RCE (5); Rixter (1); tcmtech (3); wshll6 (1); WWkayaker (1); xanasax (1); Zaf (1)

Previous in Blog: Will GM Really Hire More EV Engineers?   Next in Blog: Saga of the Unsafe Seatbelt – Part 1

Advertisement