Hemmings Motor News Blog Blog

Hemmings Motor News Blog

Hemmings Motor News has been around since 1954. We're proud of our heritage, but we're also more than the Hemmings full of classifieds that your father subscribed to. Aside from new editorial content every month in Hemmings, we have three monthly magazines: Hemmings Muscle Machines, Hemmings Classic Car and Hemmings Sports and Exotic Car.

While our editors traverse the country to find the best content for those magazines, we find other oddities related to the old-car hobby that we really had no place for - until now. With this blog, we're giving you a behind-the-scenes look at what we see and what we do during the course of putting out some of the finest automotive magazines you'll ever read.

Previous in Blog: Newsprint and Masking Tape   Next in Blog: Invisible Upgrades To Make Your Classic Car More Enjoyable To Drive
Close
Close
Close
15 comments

New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

Posted December 07, 2021 5:00 AM by dstrohl
Pathfinder Tags: Colorado trucks and SUVs

For most travelers, Telluride, Colorado, is a one-way-in, one-way-out town. Steep box canyon walls hem it in, making for world-renowned skiing, but limiting road access to a spur of State Highway 145 from the west. Four-wheel-drive and off-road vehicle owners - at least, those with nerves of steel and confidence in their rigs - have at least a couple other options, including the famed Black Bear Pass that connects to U.S. Route 550, the Million Dollar Highway, to the east. But a proposed forest management plan for the region may bring an end to motorized access to Black Bear Pass and many other nearby off-road trails.

"There is a serious risk that many of the popular areas in the GMUG could be closed to public access," the Blue Ribbon Coalition, a group dedicated to preserving trail access for off-road vehicles, wrote in a recent blog post.

GMUG refers to the Grand Mesa, Uncompahgre, and Gunnison National Forests, about 3 million acres of national forests on the western slope of the Colorado Rockies managed by the U.S. Forest Service. It last saw a comprehensive forest plan process that considered recreation opportunities in 1983.

The U.S. Forest Service has created a new plan - essentially a substantial and wide-ranging revision of the 1983 plan - that it released in draft form in August of this year, with public comment periods following immediately after. The new plan offers three basic alternative paths forward for summer recreation usage.

Keep reading...

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7193
Good Answers: 416
#1

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/07/2021 2:41 PM

Social concerns: Whoever can yell the loudest.

"Hi. We're from the government and we're here to help you."

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2027
Good Answers: 112
#2
In reply to #1

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/07/2021 11:16 PM

It's happening everywhere.

As an example, US Rt 11, the Valley Turnpike, that was the main N/S highway in the Shenandoah Valley before I-81, is getting more and more restrictive. Extensive double yellow line additions have eliminated many of the old passing zones on the 2 lane highway. And more and more reduced speed limit areas make the original 55 mph speed limit zones a mere shadow of what the road was even 10 years ago.

I'm sure Rt 11 isn't the only road suffering the same fate. As a motorcyclist who has excellent acceleration capabilities it makes for very frustrating riding behind slow traffic. I find myself ignoring the double yellow when I have adequate sight distance to pass safely. I suspect I'll soon get my first moving violation in nearly 60 years of driving.

The nanny state continues to grow.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 90
Good Answers: 8
#3

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/08/2021 11:33 AM

I respect Brave Sir Robin and Hooker as contributing engineering and technical contributors to Engineering 360. I also respect their right to their opinions. However, in this case, I think their opinions are possibly knee-jerk reactions as part of their own political philosophies.

I did not mark their entries as off-topic, because then I could not point out the following:

1. These are plans that are out there for public comment. You are entitled to be a cynic about the plans, but the point is that nothing is established for now. Any citizen has a right to comment on the plans.

2. The plans do include different levels of motorized access.

3. These are plans for our wildlands. Many Americans want motorized access. Many Americans feel differently. No plan will make everyone 100% happy.

4. Should taxpayers who value wildland ethics, pay for roads to allow more visitors and tourist to visit this area and make it another Yellowstone? It was Aldo Leopold who said "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in."

5. Should taxpayers who value comfort type recreation have to exclude visiting these areas because of either the cost of constructing roads or the consequences of constructing roads?

These are wildlands for Americans. Their use is best determined by a plan we all have contributed to. Including the local citizens.

I suggest you all read the plans and offer your own comments on line before giving knee jerk reactions to an engineering website. I totally think it is your right to comment here. But I would suggest the only benefit from doing so is a reduction in your blood pressure.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2027
Good Answers: 112
#4
In reply to #3

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/08/2021 1:04 PM

"I think their opinions are possibly knee-jerk reactions as part of their own political philosophies."

Your thinking is wrong. Not a thing knee-jerk about it at all at any time during my 73 years on this planet.

I'm motivated by the spirit of freedom. The freedom that many of my veteran brothers and sisters have died to protect. And that I and many in my family have sworn to defend, as well as proving that commitment during times of conflict.

Of course it goes without saying that with that freedom comes great responsibility. I have no respect for those who shun that responsibility for their own pleasures.

If that's a "political philosophy" then I guess I'm guilty as hell.

Hooker

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 90
Good Answers: 8
#5
In reply to #4

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/08/2021 1:21 PM

Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. I meant no insult other than there is a plan. I agree with freedom until it intrudes on another person's safety, interest, property, rights, etc. Then there needs to be something that safeguards their rights as well as yours.

In my mind, that could be laws, agreements, or in this case...a plan.

Reply
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2027
Good Answers: 112
#6
In reply to #5

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/08/2021 2:33 PM

"A plan."

I agree. And therein lies the rub. I'm a reasonable person and reasonable people compromise. The problem is that those WE have elected have chosen to be married to their ideologies at all costs. There's no compromise there and can never be.

All of our elected leaders are only interested in themselves or their ideologies. Until we remove them, and we will one way or another, nothing will change.

And, for the record, I'm not married to either of the prevailing ideologies. I'm a centrist, interested only in the welfare of our children and grandchildren and furthering the ideals of the Constitution my grandparents sacrificed so much to come live under.

Hooker

Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 6474
Good Answers: 249
#8
In reply to #6

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 9:06 AM

"Diapers and politicians should be changed frequently,and for the same reasons" .. Mark Twain

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern Kansas USA
Posts: 1409
Good Answers: 121
#9
In reply to #6

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 9:56 AM

I disagree with the wording you use--such phrases as "All of our elected leaders are only..." That may appear to be true today, with the polarization of USA politics being an example. I would suggest "Our elected leaders appear to only...", leaving room for differences of view without being painted in a specific color. After the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center, president Bush declared a limited view: "If you are not with me you are against me". This view was very widely adopted and gave very little space for other thoughts and views. We just celebrated the accomplishments and life of a US Senator, Bob Dole, who at one time was pretty strongly of a single view but became well-known for working for compromises that helped most people.

Regarding the roads mentioned, I am reminded of the status of California Hwy 1, that hugs the west coast. For decades the State has intentionally refused to widen this 2-lane road, because of the desire to preserve the scenery by allowing the slower and frequently congested road conditions to limit overall traffic. Some would like it to be a 4-lane thoroughfare, but I, for one, agree with these limits.

What we have been able to do in the past has had unexpected effects on the surrounding environment. Our worldwide population has grown exponentially, so results of our actions 20-40 years ago have become more pronounced. Effects that were within the capability of the ecosystem then are now understood to have lasting consequences and sometimes unexpected effects (some beneficial, but many others appear to be not so). Perhaps the old Hippocratic oath phrase is worth remembering: "First, do no harm." The road access limits discussed herein would appear to do harm to some, but deserve more careful evaluation and discussion than statements in the absolute.

--JMM

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2027
Good Answers: 112
#10
In reply to #9

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 11:01 AM

As a former instructor/teacher/writer I choose my words very carefully.

Of course there are exceptions to what I wrote; "All of our elected leaders are only...". But with the state of our polarized two party system those exceptions are either insignificant in the legislative process or are made irrelevant by party leadership in the end result, forcing them into the fold. My opinion, of course, as we seem to see renegades emerging recently. I hope that's a continuing trend.

As far as the road issue I described, that road is a historical route that should never be widened or expanded in any way. Again, in my opinion. The nearby parallel Interstate can be improved to expedite traffic without impacting the historical value of the area. As it is when the Interstate has problems, GPS advises people to jump on the parallel routes and make life ever more miserable for us locals

What I'm complaining about is that the state, in their omnipotent wisdom, is severely limiting historical traffic patterns for what they perceive to be in the interests of public safety. And, with the seemingly lessened driving capabilities of our younger generations, this may seem to be prudent. I had a friend who spent 18 months in the hospital due to a texting teenager who drifted into her lane at 55 MPH.

However, this 2 lane road, and many others around here, are frequented by slow moving farm vehicles. In the past this was not a problem because there were frequent passing opportunities. Now, because of the elimination of most passing zones, it is not unusual to get stuck behind a tractor or combine doing 10mph for a mile or even more. This is very frustrating as it causes traffic to back up behind these machines and everybody gets pissed off. Many choose to ignore the double yellow no passing line and become instant law breakers, including me.

There is no real logical reason for these changes other than "improving" public safety. And many of the people who make these decisions live nowhere near the communities that are affected.

And, yes, I'm quite aware of the effects of increased population. I remember quite well how much more enjoyable driving was 50-60 years ago. I try to recapture those memories by bombing around the Valley on my 2 and 3 wheeler's at every opportunity. But it is getting increasingly difficult to enjoy riding with the proliferation of useless laws and regulations that are enacted during seemingly every legislative session. Unfortunately these decision makers see this over regulation as an obligation of being in their jobs.

Yeah, I'm disgruntled.

Hooker

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7193
Good Answers: 416
#11
In reply to #10

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 11:44 AM

There is an interesting philosophical question: "In general, the older we get, the more disgruntled we get." Why is that?

I believe there is good reason for that. The older we get, the more experiences we have, and we get to see what happens over the long term as a result of short-sighted decisions.

I, for one, was happy go-lucky all through my adult years until I hit my mid-forties. Then little, by little, I began to pay attention. And I began to see things I didn't like.

And then the cynicism begins to set in, because you start to see things for what they really are. And then you get to be old enough and financially secure enough, that you stop caring about what other people think of you and you start to speak your mind. And quod erat demonstrandum, we become old curmudgeons.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2027
Good Answers: 112
#12
In reply to #11

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 12:24 PM

Excellent analysis, thank you. I'm (proudly) guilty as charged.

Hooker <-- who, if I still had my chemistry set, would likely be charged with terrorism.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7193
Good Answers: 416
#7
In reply to #3

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/08/2021 10:53 PM

You're right. You're never going to make everyone happy.

However . . .

All you have to do is look at the last 40 years to the ever shrinking opportunities for those who enjoy motorized recreation. I'm not suggesting we set up a motocross track in Yosemite Valley. I get that. Really, I do.

But the enviroterrorists stated goal is to shut down motorized access to our wildlands 100%. So if you are a person of limited physical abilities and unable to spend a month hiking and camping the backcountry to reach a spot, you're outta luck. Those folks have managed to "yell the loudest".

I advocate for a healthy balance in which neither "side" is going to be happy. Nothing is without some impact. Take only pictures, but leave only footprints isn't even politically correct anymore. They don't want you to even leave a footprint, i.e a trail.

There is extreme selfishness on both ends of the spectrum on this issue.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 178
Good Answers: 3
#13

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 1:15 PM

My how times change. 30 years ago it was a two way road. Fun little trip up from Telluride. I guess too many people forgot which vehicle has the right-of-way on a mountain trail.

Unless it has changed drastically, there is no way to put road lines on the rocks or a way to to do it. Some of it is only wide enough for one truck anyway. It was to go up and look at the views, the aqueduct, the little cabin. Not really practical as a true road. Probably takes the same (or less) amount of time to go around on the paved road.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7193
Good Answers: 416
#14
In reply to #13

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/09/2021 2:43 PM

Something about journey, destination, blah-blah-blah.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 147
Good Answers: 10
#15

Re: New Forest Plan Could Close the Most Dangerous Road in the US

12/11/2021 11:07 AM

I would have to disagree with the premise that this is the most dangerous road in the U.S. I would say that Highway 285 between Pecos, TX and Orla, TX is the most dangerous.

Highway 285 is a 2-lane road, speed limit 75 MPH, and heavily traveled by oilfield trucks. Construction work hasn't helped much, either. The fatal accident rate was so bad that the Texas Department of Public Safety decided to patrol this 32 mile corridor with 28 patrol cars--roughly one officer every mile--to ensure that all drivers played nice. On the 6th day of the increased patrol, you guessed it, another fatal head-on accident...

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Reply to Blog Entry 15 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Brave Sir Robin (4); ccoop609 (2); HiTekRedNek (1); Hooker (5); jmueller (1); steve45 (1); Torqued (1)

Previous in Blog: Newsprint and Masking Tape   Next in Blog: Invisible Upgrades To Make Your Classic Car More Enjoyable To Drive

Advertisement