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Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

Posted January 08, 2008 12:01 AM by Steve Melito

Thirty-one years ago this week, Thomas McCarthy discovered a hole in the frozen surface of a man made pond on his family's horse farm in Wakefield, New Hampshire. Recently blanketed by a blizzard, the ice on the 100-foot-long pond measured 18 inches thick. Although the outdoor temperature struggled to reach 5° F, McCarthy watched as the pond's frozen surface began to melt. Startled, he notified his father, Bill McCarthy, who estimated the size of the mysterious hole as three feet in diameter. Using a long stick, Bill McCarthy probed the muddy bottom of the shallow pond and noticed a small black box. After returning to the house, Bill McCarthy called a neighbor – who notified the police.

The police officers who came to the McCarthy farm used a Geiger counter to check the pond for radiation. When their handheld device registered four roentgens, they alerted Civil Defense (CD) for New Hampshire. Later, CD Deputy Director Wesley Williams explained that his organization took three different readings with three different Geiger counters on three separate occasions. Although one counter registered three roentgens, the other two readings were described as "zero and low". The instrument that gave the high reading was sent to a laboratory for suspected equipment failure, but no fault was found. Subsequent testing of the other two devices also failed to find any problem.

Although government officials told the McCarthys not to tell anyone about the hole in the pond, TV crews and journalists soon descended upon their farm. As reporters advanced theories about meteors, hot springs, satellite debris, and ice fishing, officials verified that no military or civilian aircraft had dropped anything over New Hampshire. The North American Air Defense Command (ADC) even checked to see if part of a satellite had fallen from space. Meanwhile, eyewitnesses on the ground claimed that the National Guard had removed something from the bottom of a pond and hauled it away in a truck. State officials explained that a chemist had merely taken samples of soil and water, which were then transported in a black box.

On January 13, 1977, members of an inter-agency task force arrived at the farm, examined the pond, and announced that there was nothing hidden in its muddy waters. In the days after the scientists and reporters left, however, Bill McCarthy noticed another oddity. Even after a windy night of subzero temperatures, the mysterious hole would not refreeze. Instead, only slush would form in the opening.

Resources:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5PkXpHv7HKcC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=january+10+1977+wakefield+new+hampshire&source=web&ots=R45wyufHZn&sig=xMzYRPbFS5BKszVgMBwCsHC0Mp0

http://books.google.com/books?id=uVL7BCSdv5gC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=january+10+1977+wakefield+new+hampshire&source=web&ots=UvtshwC5ey&sig=x8lA8FfSJje_PO9VlZveiKfWhmw

Steve Melito - The Y Files

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#1

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/08/2008 6:49 PM

What is also interesting about this report is that it didn't seem to occur to anyone to take the water temperature. Better yet, deep-IR imaging taken of the pond would have clearly revealed its thermal profile and would have helped to immediately pinpoint the heat source. Such devices were available in 1977 and even earlier (I saw a demo of a FLIR system in 1974 that could thermally image footprints several minutes after a bare-footed person had walked past).

I find it a bit suspicious that the police immediately thought to check for radioactivity and brought not one, but several geiger counters. Unusual for a police department in a small town like Wakefield (1980 pop. 2237) to be so well-equipped in this area. Even more suspicious is that no mention is made of temperature measurements having been taken of the pond in spite of the fact that the phenomenon was clearly a thermal one.

Does this strike anyone else as odd?

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#2

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/09/2008 2:33 AM

Thanks Moose

There was later observed that a second hole through the ice a few hours later, about 50 feet away, was connected by a trench in the muddy pond bottom, so the black box certainly arrived at some speed......

There is extra information on-line at: http://www.waterufo.net/item.php?id=181

Reading that, plus your Blog information, it would appear to have been a fallen plutonium power pack for a satellite, possibly of Russian source, or US Military.

The "Authorities" decided on a "cover-up", in the normal way, so that if the source was Military, or ex the US, they could deny it, as is the custom.

Kind Regards....

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/09/2008 8:30 AM

Hello Sparky,

Note what the Wakefield Incident says in the first two paragraphs:

"The pond, 105 by 75 feet, had been frozen solid just the day before,..."

and

"The hole was perfectly round and cut smoothly through 14 inches of ice."

Ponds don't freeze to this thickness in a space of 24 hours. Not even in Wakefield, NH.

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#6
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/09/2008 11:37 AM

I believe that the intent of the sentence is only to convey that the entire surface was observed to be frozen solid just one day before the incident ("His horses had played . . ."). On January 10, it might well have been frozen solid for weeks. A safe thickness of ice for the horses to play upon must have been more than half of the 14 inches described in one place. Essentially the full thickness seen during the incident was likely present when they played on that previous day.

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#18
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/04/2008 4:59 PM

No, the horses had not "played" on the pond. The snow was so deep they could not get to it even if they tried. Besides, I had it fenced off so they couldn't reach it. I have no idea how thick ice must be to support 1000 lbs, and do not intend to find out.

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#3

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/09/2008 4:45 AM

Not only didn't they take the temperature of the water, but, they only appear to have used the Geiger counter on the pond: not the mysterious black box. There does not seem to be any record of what happened to the black box after Bill retrieved it.

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#19
In reply to #3

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/04/2008 5:30 PM

My Dad did not retrieve it. He is not stupid. Would you go messing around with something that had heated the pond water up so it overflowed the "hole" and turned the entire surface of the pond to slush?? (My theory) That first afternoon, when first my Dad and I were poking at the thing, and later I wallowed down through 3' of snow to the pond to poke some more, there was a clear open water hole about 3' in diameter. It was 12 degrees out and there was not a skim of ice over the hole. We all decided to leave it alone. I was there you see .

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#5

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/09/2008 11:17 AM

Is there an inventory of radioactive heat generators in satellites circling earth?

For sure some were used in the 1975 pioneer probes but these are now at the rim of our solar system.

RHABE

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/11/2008 12:03 AM

RHABE asks: "Is there an inventory of radioactive heat generators in satellites circling earth?"

There are indeed. The first RTG (radioisotope thermoelectric generator) launched in space by the United States was in 1961 aboard the SNAP 3 in the Navy Transit 4A spacecraft. I remember reading about it when I was a kid. As I recall, the thing was about the size and shape of a refrigerator compressor, except that it had fins to radiate the heat. RTGs depend on a temperature difference in order to work.

A common application of RTGs is as power sources on spacecraft. Systems Nuclear Auxiliary Power Program (SNAP) units were used especially for probes that travel far enough from the Sun that solar panels are no longer viable. As such they are used with Pioneer 10, Pioneer 11, Voyager 1, Voyager 2, Galileo, Ulysses, Cassini and New Horizons. In addition, RTGs were used to power the two Viking landers and for the scientific experiments left on the Moon by the crews of Apollo 12 through 17 (SNAP 27s), excluding Apollo 13 because that mission never reached the Moon's surface. RTGs were also used for the Nimbus, Transit and Les satellites. By comparison, only a few space vehicles have been launched using full-fledged nuclear reactors: the Soviet RORSAT series and the American SNAP-10A.

Although not strictly RTGs, similar units called radioisotope heater units are also used by various spacecraft including the Mars Exploration Rovers, Galileo and Cassini. These devices use small samples of radioactive material to produce heat directly, instead of electricity.

There have been six known accidents involving RTG-powered spacecraft. The first one was a launch failure in which the U.S. Transit-5BN-3 navigation satellite failed to achieve orbit and burnt up on re-entry north of Madagascar. Its 17,000 Ci (630 TBq) plutonium metal fuel was injected into the atmosphere over the Southern Hemisphere where it burnt up, and traces of plutonium 238 were detected in the area a few months later. The second was the Nimbus B-1 weather satellite whose launch vehicle was deliberately destroyed shortly after launch on 21 May 1968 because of erratic trajectory. Launched from the Vandenberg Air Force Base, its SNAP-19 RTG containing relatively inert plutonium dioxide was recovered intact from the seabed in the Santa Barbara Channel five months later and no environmental contamination was detected.

Two more were failures of Soviet Cosmos missions containing RTG-powered lunar rovers in 1969, both of which released radioactivity as they burnt up. There were also five failures involving Soviet or Russian spacecraft which were carrying nuclear reactors rather than RTGs, between 1973 and 1993.

The failure of the Apollo 13 mission in April 1970 meant that the Lunar Module reentered the atmosphere carrying an RTG and burnt up over Fiji. It carried a SNAP-27 RTG containing 44,500 curies (1,650 TBq) of plutonium dioxide which survived reentry into the Earth's atmosphere intact, as it was designed to do, the trajectory being arranged so that it would plunge into 6-9 kilometers of water in the Tonga trench in the Pacific Ocean. The absence of plutonium 238 contamination in atmospheric and seawater sampling confirmed the assumption that the cask is intact on the seabed. The cask is expected to contain the fuel for at least 10 half-lives (i.e. 870 years) before disintegrating.

The most recent accident involving a spacecraft RTG was the failure of the Russian Mars 96 probe launch on 16 November 1996. The two RTGs onboard carried in total 200 g of plutonium and are assumed to have survived reentry (as they were designed to do). They are thought to now lie somewhere in a northeast-southwest running oval 320 km long by 80 km wide which is centred 32 km east of Iquique, Chile.

As far as I know, there have been no reports of lost RTGs over New Hampshire, although it is possible that the device found in McCarthy's pond was a small reactor from one of the failed Soviet/Russian launches. But I doubt it. From the description given the "box" was too small. If the device were an RTG, it would not be in the shape of a box, as reported.

At any rate, here are some space probes having RTGs:

Cassini (3 RTGs), New Horizons (1), Galileo (2), Ulysses (1)
300 W of electric power produced, 4400 W total heat produced, uses about 7.6 kg of 238Pu.

Voyager 1 (3), Voyager 2 (3)
390 W of electric power produced, 7200 W total heat produced, uses about 4.5 kg of 238Pu.

Viking 1 (2), Viking 2 (2), Pioneer 10 (4), Pioneer 11 (4)
35 W of electric power produced, 525 W total heat produced, uses about 1 kg of 238Pu.

Apollo 12-17: ALSEP RTG (1)
73 W of electric power produced, 1480 W total heat produced, used about 3.8 kg of 238Pu.

In the pix below, you can see the RTGs used by various probes. Notice that none of them are in the shape of a "box."

Diagram of Pioneer 10. The two RTGs can be seen at the end of the booms.

Voyager. Voyager's triple-RTG can be seen protruding from the left side of the spacecraft.

The New Horizons spacecraft. Its dual RTG features prominently in this view.

Diagram of Galileo. Note the twin RTG at the end of the left-hand boom.

Cassini probe. The RTG is located at the rear of the craft at about 11 o'clock.

Cutaway view of the GPHS RTG. The "general-purpose heat source" is a stack of 238Pu pellets.

Closeup view of Ulysses' dual RTG.

62 watts' worth of 238Pu.

Take care,
-e

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/12/2008 1:57 AM

Dang! That's good stuff man. Damn good indeed.

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#7

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/09/2008 1:47 PM

Far, far stranger things than this happen in New Hampster. Why, just last week, hundreds of news reporters converged on the state for no apparent reason! Sort of like lemmings in reverse (but that was a different thread). Government cover-ups notwithstanding, this does not pass the giggle test with me...sorry. Still, the truth is out there...

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#10

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

05/29/2008 4:45 PM

There is much more to this story. Bill McCarthy is actually my Uncle :) I'll post an update here when I get a chance just happened across this site on a quick search to show someone.

For starters, the family dog drank the water in the pond. A week later it died. They took the dog to the vet who performed an autopsy to discover the dogs internals were almost completely black. The asked if they could send it to a University for further investigation. After a month of not hearing anything back they contacted the University who replied with, "Dog, what dog?"

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

05/29/2008 4:53 PM

Welcome, Guest! I hope you'll register with CR4 so that we can learn some more about you. Registering is free - and very easy to do. Just click the Register link (it's in the upper right corner of the red bar) and then follow the steps as prompted.

Once you register, give me a shout. If you are who you say you are, I'd welcome your update to this story.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

05/29/2008 8:32 PM

Hello Guest,

We wait here, with bated breath, on your registering at CR4, and giving us the latest update on "The Mystery of McCarthy's Pond", which is a title worthy of the noted

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle himself.

.

Reply please, and

Kind Regards....

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#13
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

06/20/2008 2:43 PM

Almost a month, and all I can say is: "Guest? What guest?" Seems we'll have to find where the dog went to find where the guest went, Sparky! (Sorry, Moose...mighta' been a great addendum)

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

06/20/2008 3:20 PM

Thanks, EnviroMan. I'm disappointed that our Guest didn't return, and now wonder if some of the conspiracy theorists among us might blame his "disappearance" on the Men in Black. :)

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#15
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

06/20/2008 3:37 PM

That's an interesting point - I know I certainly don't, I'm more in favor that it was the "Men In White" that dragged him off!

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#16

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/04/2008 9:45 AM

OOOOOO You have it so wrong my friend. How do I know??? I WAS THERE!! I am the unmentioned Daughter. And brother Thomas did not discover the whole, he did not live here, would never of been here that day except we told him about the "oddity". The deceptions and mysteries go alot deeper than you would believe. Think I am a "crock"? Well I am not. Think you have some inside knowledge of this incident, let's hear it.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/04/2008 11:37 AM

Hmmm I posted this entry before I read all the posts. The "guest" was well informed. I wonder which one it was... and the dog story is true. And no, it did not occur to me or anyone else to take a water temp. (I guess that is why after 1 semester at UNH I decided Physics and science were not the future for me... hehehe).

All I know is, it was damm weird, ponds just do not melt, it was damm cold. And BTW, it was January. Pond had been freezing since Nov...

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/06/2008 8:42 AM

Thanks for commenting on my story, Cathy in the sticks. My name is Moose, and I'm the blogger who originally wrote this piece.

I'd like to get to the bottom of the Mystery of McCarthy's pond, but have been unable to reach the Guest who you say is "well informed". But since you've taken the time to register with CR4, you have a LOT more credibility than that person.

Would you be willing to let me interview you for a follow-up story? If I got the facts of the piece wrong, I'd like to be able to correct them. But I also need to know that you are who you really say you are.

I'll send you a message so that you can respond to me privately, if you like.

Best,

Moose

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#21
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/06/2008 9:17 AM

Hey, Cathy, I hope you take Moose up on that - it's a fascinating story and Moose is just the person to help you present it. Looking forward to hearing more on this,

Kris.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/06/2008 6:51 PM

Hello Moose and Cathy in the sticks

Yes, I am another of many here who would like to find out more and actually have that mystery solved.

Looking forward to your further reply and information.

Kind Regards....

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#23
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/06/2008 8:06 PM

K. Here are some "pond facts".

1. The pond was perfectly normal Sunday at dusk when it was last seen. Pond was ice covered with about 3 feet of snow on it. Monday morning, snowing so bad could not see pond (about 150' away from house down a hill). Fed horses went inside. 12:30 Bill noticed a dark spot on the pond, hard to tell what it was still snowing. Had to go look.

2. Dad and I wallow down to pond in deep snow. Found an open patch of water 3' accross. It was single digit degrees and windy... There are no currents or springs in this pond, so get that outta your head.

3. See object. Go up to barn and return with stuff to poke at it (pretty dumb, eh?). Decide it was too wierd and to leave it alone.

4. Open water all day over hole. Town cops came out twice, once to "look" and later that night with a mickey mouse radiation detector. By now, entire surface of pond trurned to slush, went over the cops boots. Net day civil defence came out with several geiger counters. Got readings which they later denied.

5. Next morning pond and slush froze over again, no more snow on the surface, just ice. Hole still visable, thin skim of ice over it, it was 5 out. Second hole had appeared about 20' away. Dark spot in ice froze over. Ice thinner. Could of been there all along under the snow, just couldn't see it. Wasn't as hot to melt to the surface???

6. Pond is about 150' x 75'. It tapers off gradually depth wise to it deepest point, about 4' or so. Bottom is not muddy, more like clay. Not a big pond, but still alot of water to heat up, none the less.

7. The feds and reporters did not show up until Thursday morning. Oh the feds denied being here, but this was the age before cell phones and the nearest pay phone was miles away. They used our phone in the house.... I wasn't really trying to overhear them... not really...

They chopped up the ice on our pond, took whatever they came for and left.

I will leave it at that for now. If I get visited by the "men in black" tomorrow, I will try to leave a message before they cart me off...

Oh, and another thing, all the newspaper reports and articles called my Dad a "farmer", "farmer Bill"... hehehe. He loved that (not). He was a building contractor here in NH, semi retired from construction work in Boston. Yes we had horses, but that was my gig.

Cathy in the sticks

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#24
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/06/2008 9:08 PM

Hi Cathy

This is all rather intriguing. I would suggest getting samples of the pond water and clay for spectral and chromatographic analysis. Any residual chemical and/or radioactives could be traced to a source.

I'm sure there are those members on this site who would be more than willing to assist and to have these instruments made available....AND post the results!

I would also suggest using non contaminated sealable containers and to keep a hidden repository of samples for future perusal. Any company that specializes in mineral analysis of water will have these containors readily available with instructions on how to gather the samples.

Fascinating story

Duck

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#27
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/07/2008 9:12 PM

Samples I can get, however the pond have been totally drained on a couple occasions and the base dug deeper. The summer of 1977 my Dad went digging to see if the "black object" was still there. There were a few people who took samples that day, one, a UFO guy (man in black)... and some local Brewster Academy students.

Would residue still be there after all this time???

Cathy

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#28
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/07/2008 9:35 PM

If it was nuclear in nature then there'd be some lingering isotope signatures. If a non degradable chemical then the same would also hold true. Possibly even if the chemical had degraded then a backwards analysis could be attempted.

I'd venture to say that the first scoops dug from the pond would contain the above.

Were any results of the analysis made available to the public?

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#33
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/08/2008 6:23 PM

Hey Duck

I very much doubt anything could be gotten from the state of NH. I am sure it is very much hidden or "lost". The NH Governor at the time was Meldren Thompson. He was a nut. (He wanted to give nuclear weapons to the NH national guard, amonst other things.)

I am trying to find the physics teacher Mr Morrison, who was there, and a student that took some samples. See newspaper photo.

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#34
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/08/2008 9:39 PM

Hi Cathy

Was there a search conducted of the immediate area? If a missile (sorry Rhabe, I'm still on my missile) did happen to bounce off the bottom of the pond (and left the telltale trail) then it mustn't have gone far.

I see from the photo there is a forested area. If you can pinpoint the objects direction of travel (the scour mark on the bottom of the pond should indicate one of two directions) and if it did enter and then exit.... then.... it might still be out there.

Incidentally........is the water of the pond normally clear enough to see bottom?

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/08/2008 8:33 AM

Hi Cathy,

what you described: a.: heating of the pond for days after the hole was made, b.: dying dog a few days after having ingested some water from the pond, c.: peculiar behaviour of investigators with counters, any of these seems to be enough to be convinced that a very big amount of extremely radioactive material was causing these.

So some questions:

the pond has been deepened how much, only the bottom or complete with walls?

Where was deposited the excavated material?

What type of material:

clay will readily absorb and immobilise radioactive elements if the acidity is low (pH>6?),

sand will not retain much especially if some peat or similar organic material is present as on decomposition there will be humic acid that is leaching nearly any contamination from quartz sand,

mud and any other material has enough clay that there will be no problem to reveal what happened.

And if excavating has been done carefully there was likely a spillover from contaminated to uncontaminated surface.

Try to locate where the tracks of the excavating equipment have been (most likely contaminated) and where may have been the heaps of excavated material - contaminated too.

After this little time there may be nearly the same - now diluted- radioactivity as then if that was a devils egg with long-lived radioactive elements. There may be remaining an acute danger for everybody near if it is emitting gamma-rays and even more dangerous if any dust from dried mud is inhaled.

Maybe you can find the report from the Brewster Academy students?

Try to locate people that are familiar with radioactive analysis (and analysis of remains of gone radioactivity) from geologic probes. Tell them that there may be more than they want to have.

Look what precautions must be observed at handling and measurement of those materials! There has to be a local or next university authority where training for medical and measurement people is offered.

Alpha- and beta-radioactivity measurement is requiring very special counters - normally existing only in military-, firefighters- or may be university equipment.

Be more than cautious it is your health!

RHABE

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#30
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/08/2008 9:35 AM

The next day the pond was frozen over again. Disregarding warnings, McCarthy walked out on it and looked down through the clear ice where the hole had been and to the pool bottom. A fresh six-inch wide trench stretched from beneath the first hole all the way to the second. To all appearances, the object that had entered via the former had left via the latter.

Taking impact deflection into account and if the trench length was known it is possible to determine the speed and angle of approach. Anything impacting at 40' or more would bury itself in the soil.

The possibility exists this was a missile that uses highly oxygenated fuel. This would explain burning the dogs intestines after ingestion. Hydrogen peroxide would release heat if combined with organic matter in the pond.

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#31
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/08/2008 2:24 PM

By now, entire surface of pond turned to slush, went over the cops boots. (at 5°F)

5. Next morning pond and slush froze over again, no more snow on the surface, just ice. Hole still visible, thin skim of ice over it, it was 5 out. Second hole had appeared about 20' away.

Hi Duckinthepond,

if there was a heat emitting object - and the authorities did remove something, there was convection in the pond driven by this heat, very warm locally, melting the second hole, distributed convection also at driving upside down the total volume of the pond (temperatures above 0°C) thus changing the snow to slush.

I think a situation not to be likely when a missile with any type of fuel is spilling its fuels into a pond that then a dog will drink from this. Dogs with fantastic nose capabilities "never" will act so. And I estimated that there was a volume of 500m³ in the pond so some 5 to 25 Kg of fuel dissolved in 500m³ will give a concentration of 10 to 50ppm - very unlikely that this fuel was so poisonous. Hydrazine is said to be very poisonous, toxicity data say LD50 is 60 to 120mg/Kg. So no way for this?

Seeing people fiddling with Geiger counters which I know nothing about, and then hustling away like they just saw "bigfoot", and "bigfoot" was chasing them was not much fun.

After reading this I am convinced that this object was heavily radioactive. But for what reason coming down? Early satellite? Something lost by airplane seems very unlikely. I have no idea.

RHABE

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#32
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/08/2008 5:55 PM

I remember the radioactive sputnik that crashed in our arctic. The resulting hysteria by the media and members of our government had most of Canada digging fallout shelters in their gardens....mobilization of the ambulance brigades etc etc. It was ridiculous.

I would think that in the US it would be much the same with the public health authorities. Maybe not.

I don't know either.

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#25
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/07/2008 1:05 AM

Thanks for the additions, Cathy. I wish I'd seen something as exciting, people turning up with geiger counters must have been a real buzz.

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#26
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/07/2008 9:05 PM

No actually it wasn't. Seeing people fiddling with geiger counters which I know nothing about, and then hustling away like they just saw "bigfoot", and "bigfoot" was chasing them was not much fun. You have to wonder, "what are they not telling us???". I have barely scraped the surface of what went on that week. This is a public discussion. I will wait a bit and see who might be looking in on things here. But the fact is, little green men did not melt my pond. It was totally bizarr.

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#35
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/20/2008 3:14 PM

How often do investigators wielding geiger counters show up almost immediately upon hearing a report of this kind? My hunch is that this event was expected beforehand and investigators were ready and on their way once learning of the exact location of the impact. NORAD tracks all kinds of stuff - space junk, anything in orbit that could pose a potential hazard to spacecraft - IF indeed this was a spacecraft that fell out of orbit. I'd like to see NORAD's tracking reports for this day. And if it was a spacecraft, were there any reports that same day of especially bright meteors, "falling stars," etc., that might suggest this thing fell from space?

I'm with RHABE on this one, at least insofar as this thing was a missle or something which unintentionally fell from a fairly high altitude.

-e

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#36
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/20/2008 3:47 PM

"...NORAD tracks all kinds of stuff..."

They sure do - right down to 1/4" bolts 3" long - which is about as small as radar resolution allows. Last I knew, they tracked between 3 and 4 thousand objects in various orbits. The exact number varies, some orbits decay and the "stuff" falls to atmosphere/Earth, while other scraps are discarded. These days, it's usually by accident when hardware leaves it's assigned location. And you are correct to presume this was not a totally unanticipated event. The location itself sounds remote enough for the MIBs to have travelled a day or two just to get there. To show up immediately with the right gear tells me they knew pretty much what they were looking for.

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#37

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/20/2008 11:48 PM

Sending a pic for you all to ponder. There has been interest in the dog that died, and with the "guest poster" that mentioned him. Well here is a pic of the dog at the "mystery pond" hole Thursday morning before the Feds and national TV and reporters got here. It is just after dawn, the first man you see is a local reporter who gave us this pic. The second man is my brother Tom. The dog who as you can certainly see is an extremely happy, fit, healthy, young German Shephard hanging out at the site of the "hole" before the state and federal government chopped up the pond and took whatever they were looking for and left. Two weeks later this dog wes dead. Also note, tree in the backround, century old maple tree died soon after.

Cathy in NH

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 2:22 AM

All I can say is: Wow!

I scoured the web for info about that event shortly after this blog entry was posted. I couldn't find much of anything. I even wrote to the 'local' paper (such as it is) to see if they had anything on file. Nada. Their archives went back only a few years.

You are McCarthy's daughter? It was your family's pond and you were living there when it happened?

How'd you stumble onto CR4?

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 3:18 AM

I don't know if this is relevant or not............

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081009/GJNEWS_01/710096205

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 6:18 PM

Hello Kris

from me

Your above weblink is very interesting, and does explain part of the mystery.

Kind Regards....

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 6:56 PM

Oh Deere .........

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#44
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 9:38 PM

Nah... that story has nothing to do with the original event. My Dad is still some what of a celebrity around here after all these years, and when he found this hunk of melted "whatever" in the woods, people talk, and the reporter that came out to do the story on it for the Fosters, was here as a reporter for a small town newspaper in Massachusets for the original pond story. Rod Doherty is now the exectutive editor for the 'Fosters Daily Democrat', heard the story and was curious. And so the news article. The object is an oddity, found in the woods, lighter then a rock, not magnetic or radioactive. He broke a piece off and tried to burn it with a plumbers torch... nada. Did not melt either. I think the reporter really came out because he wants to do another story on the pond, but I have all the notes and I am not ready to "share".

Cathy in NH

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#47
In reply to #44

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/22/2008 3:54 AM

Thanks Cathy, you must have seen some really weird stuff happen since the original event - all sorts of dubious reporting/mis-quotes/people turn up on the doorstep etc. Have you ever thought about running your own web-site on the topic ? It would quash some of the garbage that is probably reported in the press and on-line. Earlier on, Moose invited you to get in touch, and it might be worth doing so via CR4's Private Message system (which I think was his proposal). It sounds like you are treading careful about how much you say, and Moose could probably provide some sound advice on possible ways to procede. Just a thought.

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#48
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/24/2008 11:45 PM

Yes Kris. I am treading lightly here. But I thought you might all get a kick out of this.

Hope the pic file is not too large, forgot to shrink it. I personally highly doubt it was any kind of "UFO", but we got these people as well. Check out these links

http://www.nicap.org/madar.htm http://www.nhufo.org/nh%20ufo_science.html

This guy was very strange, did not like his pic taken, and when he pulled out his business card to give to me, his fingers were so cold he dropped about a dozen others that said he was "Jack the Florist" to "John the TV Reporter", to "Ted the Exterimator".... I do not totally remember exactly what they said. But it was really quite funny and quite strange. Both the cameraman and I laughed... UFO guy was not pleased. Can you tell by the picture?

Cathy in NH

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#49
In reply to #39

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/25/2008 12:14 AM

Kris. This is a reply to an earlier question you had. This is totally irrevelent to the "pond thing". And yet strange things can happen to a person more than once in a lifetime. Ya think??? My Dad found this in the woods. I joined a meterorite group this week just to see if anybody had seen such a thing as this before. (Not a meteorite) Maybe in a more populated area they might have. I dunno. We went back to same area and I found another piece. Here is a pic of original one.

Did not want anybody to think we were just some kinds of "kooks" when this other story came out. We live in a small town and when my Dad brought this thing in the house, I made him take it down to the fire station to check for radioactivity. Nuttin'. But the paper got "wind" of it. It is not magnetic, kinda like plastic, except we broke off a piece of it and it will not melt or burn. Red stripe will not scrape off. Strange...huh...

Cathy in NH

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#50
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/25/2008 2:41 PM

Hi Cathy,

this is very likely a plastic object returning from space.

Original color was red, heating on reentry partially softened the material and partially carbonised the outside.

As heating is by shockwave surrounding the object at a distance of a few centimeter, this shockwave being heated to some 1000°C but very low density and thus not too efficient as a radiative heater the outside is heated more intense than the inner-more parts.

Many plastics will not burn in an ordinary fire but slowly convert to carbon and releasing fumes - bad smell and toxic if inhaled. Fluorine and chlorine containing plastics will produce very toxic fumes.

If you can burn a piece in an oven with ample air you will get some inorganic powder or particles - most plastics come reinforced with glass (beads or flakes or short fibers) or minerals: alumina, silica, talc, mica or oxides of iron or chromium or else.

A plastics expert knows the material by its smell if heated as a small piece wit a lighter.

Else there are infrared spectrometers that can readily give first classification of both the matrix polymer and the filler.

Try the nearest university - chemical or material department, but give to them only a very small fragment. Most often there can be obtained a quick analysis without cost.

Have success! and please report the result.

RHABE

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#42
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 8:17 PM

You are McCarthy's daughter? It was your family's pond and you were living there when it happened?

--

Another one of europium's usual brain farts. <sigh> I should've read all of your posts, Ms Cathy.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 8:23 PM

Hello europium

I was sure you had read all the Posts?

You just made a couple of statements, and a small gremlin in your keyboard software placed an incorrect question mark at the end of those two sentences?

Wasn't that how it was?

Oh, my, it appears that my keyboard has the same trouble now?

Kind Regards....

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#45
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 10:18 PM

You won't find much info. Most of it has "gone missing" although I have not tried some of the larger publications, such as the NY Times. (That reporter was a really nice guy.) Many strange and unusual things came out of this story, some were scary, some intimidating. I am hoping after so many years I can talk about it. We shall see.

As for finding CR4, I am pretty good at finding stuff and you guys seem pretty knowledgeable while keeping an open mind. Decided to give you a try.

Cathy in NH

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

10/21/2008 10:42 PM

Even though not all of us read all the posts before making complete fools of ourselves? (Did I say that?)

Btw, I used to live on Plum Island/Newburyport, MA, just south of the Merrimack river. We had some very good friends who ran the Mt. Adams Inn, a nice Bed & Breakfast in North Woodstock, NH. We'd usually visit around mid-October when the fall colors were at their peak, and then again around Christmas, where we'd stay at the Inn with our friends while it was closed for the holidays. I have very, very nice memories of NH.

Regrettably, our friends sold the Inn to someone else and have since moved to California.

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#51

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

05/20/2010 12:59 PM

any updates on this does anyone know anything else about this ? has the rock that he found finally been identified??

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#52

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/06/2011 4:19 PM

Alas, the story seems to have gone cold! (pun intended)

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#53
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/07/2011 10:04 PM

Oh ye of little faith how wrong thou art. The mystery sill abides and astounds all those who have attempted to solve this perplexing puzzle… and indeed, some of the individuals that have desired to investigate this incident, have turned up missing, so I would advise great caution if you wish to pursue this further...

Cathy in NH ( it is indeed cold. But nothing like that day on January 10, 1997... ;o)

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#54

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/23/2011 10:05 PM

Hello. This story is now 34 years old, and most of the people involved in it are retired now, and willing to talk more about what they saw and were told at the time they would lose their jobs if they did talk. I am thinking of building a web site "holeinthepond.com" and see what I get in response. We shall see.

QUESTION: If I measure the size of the pond, approximate depth, etc. Could one of you "brainiacs" figure out how hot the object could possibly of been to 'almost melt the pond' in a blizzard with 12 degree wind blown temps? Directly over the object there was a open ice free area of about 3'. There was not even a scim of ice over the hole which I did not realize at the time how unusual that was. (cut a hole in a pond at that temp and it immediately will start to freeze, scim over)

The ice was 18" thick, snow depth approx. 2 1/2' - 3'. Pond depth about 3'. If you notice in one of the pics I posted, by the time the press and "officials" had arrived. The pond had turned to slush, not entirely melting, but had melted the snow on top, and refroze. When we first went down to investigate, we were wading through deep snow. After, you could skate on it (almost).

JC as to how impossible or unlikely so much heat could generate like that. and NO! there is not a spring it that pond!!! (one diddly-dum from the state declared that there was a patch of dark leaves on the pond that absorbed the sunlight and melted the hole...) Thoughts welcome.

Cathy in the sticks

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/24/2011 5:06 AM

Cathy,

this can be done but is more or less insignificant.

There was a huge input of energy no doubt.

But on calculating only the energy no light will be on the suspicious death of your dog and the tree.

So first of first there should be an analysis of the sediment layer of that time on the bottom of the pond.

Try to get contact to one of the labs that do routine analysis on trace minerals in geological samples and make sure they are willing and allowed to do such an analysis.

And make sure they (or a second lab) are equipped to measure (spectroscopically) low level gamma rays in order to see radioactive elements in ultra-low concentrations.

If the object was from a nuclear power source (very likely ?) then there should be uranium or plutonium or both in very low concentrations detectable in the gamma-ray spectrum.

The elements fro the metallic or other shields will be in the ordinary analytical data.

If this is cleared then feed them with a sample from far away that contains some uranium to verify their ability. (Some grams of crushed granite will be good).

And take samples from far away of the pond, from near the pond and from deep in the pond. These samples to be taken by pushing a tube (1 to 2" dia) with an open slit at the side into the ground with a big hammer. Remove it, remove carefully (not to disturb the layered structure) the gravel inside, try to decide which part is from the miracle and send this for analysis.

If the analytical lab is good you can first decide together with them if they will see a result if mixing some Kg of material to make sure you do not miss the interesting horizon.

If you get a glass of water diluted in all water on this earth and take another glass of water from the mixture it will nearly contain 2000 molecules of the original first glass volume.

So with very small amounts of radioactivity there will be enough to get an analysis.

I don't estimate that this was an advanced star-ships black-hole energy generator.

Much more likely that this was a failed experiment with a nuclear reactor (or a heat source from radioactive decay) that were often tested and sometime used at that time. (The Soviet Union did pay more than 6M$ to Canada for search of the remains of one of these that contaminated Canadian wilderness).

Any non-nuclear event would not have triggered so much official interest and would have had a higher kinetic energy so that there will be an explosion at the landing site. (In some events of meteoritic falls where the encounter with earths atmosphere is mostly tangential the coming down may be soft so not distinguishable from your event.)

Don't tell the labs what you are searching for!

Have success!

RHABE

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#56
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/24/2011 6:08 AM

Cathy's resources probably don't stretch to paying a lab for the analysis, so, any information she can cobble together by doing "back of the envelope" calculations will still be quite useful.

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#58
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/26/2011 9:36 PM

hello Randall! ... Back of the envelope....? Well I guess. But the internet is a funny thing. We shall see what happens.

Somebody out there knows something. I just sure would like to know what the heck they dumped in my backyard... wouldn't you???

Cathy in the sticks....

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#59
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/27/2011 6:18 AM

I just sure would like to know what the heck they dumped in my backyard... wouldn't you???

Yes, this has been a great thread, and, a resolution would be terrific.

There is alot more to this story!

There may be a good story in this story. I'm thinking about an investigative journalist who writes books rather than an investigative journalist who works for a newspaper. I wonder how we go about getting one interested.

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#57
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/26/2011 9:18 PM

Hey Rhabe

Interesting comments, TYVM. I will be sure that once our 'frozen north' has melted, I will take water and soil samples, few rocks, etc. I have been told, that out there in the WWW land, there are webs that will help you with funds, sources, to investigate just about anything. (that true???)

You had a comment about the dog. Now that everyone is retired (or dead), some people seem to be able and willing to comment now. Have dogs autopsy. Says "heavy metal poisoning", most likely plutonium. Have not as yet intervieued the vets personally, myself. But I can do if necessary.

Dog was at the site longer than anyone. He was a very healthy 18 month old GSD. Way too young to get as sick as he did. My sister was there for the first autoptsy, and delivered more of the samples for further study to the state lab (who later claimed she never brought any samples in).

So many lies, half truths. There is alot more to this story!

Cathy in NH

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#60
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Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/27/2011 6:48 AM

Hi Cathy,

if you really suspect that the unknown stuff is and was Pu, then never touch anything near.

Pu is suspected to be the most poisonous stuff existing.

Poison action is said (I have no confirmation) to result from concentration inside the thin skins that surround any bone (and from kidney damage).

There was an accident with one of the US open-air atomic bombs that did not detonate but only sprayed its contents around the test site. Since then nobody is allowed to set a foot on this island! There was another incident where a worker illegally took a cleaning tissue from the German experimental reprocessing facility and was able to bring this home. (Blaming security controls). I don't know how much Pu was estimated in this tissue but likely micro-grams (max milligrams). He contaminated his own flat and another one and as this became open to investigators and the public the two flats were totally emptied of anything inside - including wallpaper and similars - and anything removed stored in a medium activity radioactive waste storage. And there was the B52 airplane crash over Spain when 3 of the nuclear bombs that fell onto land had exploded the conventional explosive inside and contaminated by resulting dust the surroundings of the impact site. The US troops removed some 100,000tons of surface material to restitute accessibility.

So if you want to clarify then it would be a good idea to get into contact with an expert and let him do an excavation of the remains of your poor dog.

And then analyse the bones and surroundings for Pu and related products.

But never try yourself.

I would never never think of touching anything containing the smallest amount of Plutonium.

This is different fro Uranium: in mining operations the workers are allowed to inhale up to 1 mg per year. (If ok or not to be debated).

And we have now an accepted limit for drinking water of 10 µg per cubic meter - too high for my thinking as there was an unintended trial with a drinking water well below the residues of an uranium deposit. This resulted in up to 170 µg U /m³. And in a 10fold increase in the rate of leukaemia in the group that got this water. No other related illnesses reported - but who knows?

Be careful! The best to you!

RHABE

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#61
In reply to #54

Re: Radioactive: The Mystery of McCarthy’s Pond

01/13/2021 9:23 PM

I have no additional input other than in the late 80's I kept my horses at this barn and remember that nothing really grew around the pond except crab grass. They said bushes or flowers always died. I was a kid and the people that ran the barn said it was fine to play in, I brought my horse and others into the pond to swim (there was one spot in the middle that was swimmable for the horses) daily and when they were in the pond so was I. Crazy having played in that water where so much happened. ��

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