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Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 5:45 AM

Why do orbits follow an almost circular and elliptical path. Why not square and triangle? What's the reason behind this?

Can circular orbits go nuts and decay an elliptical one?

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#1

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 5:59 AM

Newtons laws of motion cover it.
Things keep going in a straight line unless there is a force acting on them... in the case of an orbit, the force is gravity. If the force is too strong the satelite crashes, if it's too weak the orbit becomes larger and the satellite may break free. The only thing that would cause a sharp change in orbit to give it corners would be a sudden change in force acting on it.
It's a bit like asking why objects that you drop fall in a straight line and don't zig zag.
Del

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#2

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 6:02 AM
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#3

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 6:34 AM

The edges and cushions of the planetary pool table were not installed...

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#4

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 7:46 AM

We live in a round universe, hence the orbits are round. If we were living the alternate square universe the orbits were square.

And if you look at it from the wrong angle, both are in line.

Dont know about triangular. Must be a circle with three corners?

You most likely will have a hard time to find a exact circular orbit. Tell be if you do because we can then square it to answer your question.

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#5

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 8:18 AM

If you have just two bodies involved, both will revolve about the center of mass, tracing out elliptical orbits. A circle is just a special case of an ellipse. This can be mathematically proven from Newton's law of gravitation, that the force between two bodies is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

When there are more than two bodies, things get interesting. The planetary orbits around the sun are almost perfect ellipses, but the presence of the other planets (primarily Jupiter and Saturn) perturbs the orbits slightly. Fortunately, the planets are far apart and much smaller than the sun, so the deviations are not great.

There is no simple mathematical curve to describe the orbits when three or more bodies are involved. The best that can be done is to use a computer and calculate from one instant to the next using the positions and velocities of each object. Over long periods of time, errors can accumulate.

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#6

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 8:43 AM

As people have stated above, this is Basic Physics. Orbits are elliptical rather than square or triangular due to the law of Conservation of Momentum.

As an example, let us use the analogy of a bucket of water tied to a rope. If you swing the rope over your head, the bucket 'orbits' you in a circular path, and the water stays inside the bucket. If the bucket were to travel in a square path, then the rope would have to stretch and contract to maintain that pattern, and the bucket would need to change its direction in a sharp 90 degree angle. Neither of those things are 'normal.'

The reason that planetary orbits are elliptical instead of perfectly round is because there are no 'inelastic' connections between the planets and the sun(1). The planets all 'fall' towards the Sun, but miss; as they get closer, the attraction between planet and Sun increases, 'slingshoting' the planet around the sun and back to the 'far end' of its orbit.

This is all vastly oversimplified, but it answers your question of 'why not square.' If you need more detail, start with throwing 'planetary orbit' at Wikipedia, then look at the bottom of the page for the cited references, and check out those pages(2).

Notes:

  1. Technically not the Sun itself, but the 'barycentric center of mass of the Solar System,' a point defined by looking at ALL masses in the Solar system and their relative position; even the Sun orbits this point. The Barycentric center of mass is inside the sun, but not at the dead center(3); it's close enough that for almost all orbital calculations, we can just call the Sun a 'fixed reference point' and still be accurate in our calculations within ten or more decimal places.
  2. The procedure I described is also known as 'doing research.' You'll find it's a useful and fascinating way to answer one's own questions.
  3. Again, technically, when a body's 'orbit' is smaller than it's own size, it's usually called a 'wobble' instead of an 'orbit.'
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#7

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 10:24 AM

Why do orbits follow an almost circular and elliptical path.

Elliptical orbits are a property of any field that acts via an 'inverse r squared' relationship, i.e., when the force on object 2 due to object 1 varies as 1/ r2 where r is the distance between them. In the case of planets, gravity is the source for the force field.

Why not square and triangle? What's the reason behind this?

Conservation of angular momentum is one reason why the orbits have elliptical shapes. For a system with one dominant body (i.e., the Sun) there is no way to have an orbit with a triangular or square shape while conserving angular momentum at the 'corners'. In a multiple star system it might be possible to have a planet in a strange orbit that temporarily has a triangular shape as it moves through a gravity field having a manifold of gravitational 'poles'.

Can circular orbits go nuts and decay an elliptical one?

'Decay' is the wrong term, implying that circular orbits are 'better' than elliptical ones, but yes, if acted upon by some outside perturbing object a planet (comet is a better example) could have its orbit altered from circular to elliptical.

By the way, the orbits are always described as elliptical as seen from an outside observer 'looking down' on the solar system. But if we were to plot the orbit of Venus as seen from the Earth it would not appear to be elliptical. Venus and the Earth are in a synchronous 5/8 relationship, where every 5 orbits of Earth almost exactly equals 8 orbits of Venus. Thus every 8 years Venus returns to the exact same location in the sky. When the position of Venus is plotted from the Earth's perspective, you get the following pattern.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 10:56 AM

Hence the name, planet, derived from the Ancient Greek πλανήτης ‎(planḗtēs, “wanderer”)

(etymology through Wiktionary)

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 11:30 AM

Umm, yeah. You do realize most people here already know that, right?

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 1:04 PM

Do comets actually impact the orbits of planets in our system? I understood them to be generally small in size. Is that incorrect ?

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 1:16 PM

Yes, that was mostly for the benefit of the two people on this site who DIDN'T know that.

(If we're explaining why orbits aren't square, we might as well teach the vocabulary for that that level of teaching while we're at it. It saves AP#1 from asking the silly OP question, and it saves AP#2 from calling AP#1 rude names for asking the question.)

(I've been here long enough to know that AP#1 and #2 are almost completely predictable(1), despite each of them being Legion.)

Notes:

  1. If AP#1 isn't the OP, then AP#1 generally says mean things about the OP. If AP#1 is the OP, then AP#2 calls AP#1 mean names and claims that AP#1's question is stupid and should not have been asked(2).
  2. This is all within the predictions of GIFT: the Greater Internet F---wad Theory. Normal, otherwise sane people, when given anonymity and an audience, turn into complete A-holes.
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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 1:24 PM

Yes, even if they don't strike the planet, they have an impact on the planetary orbit. it probably amounts to the same impact a bug has a a vehicle's direction when smashing against the passenger's side of the windscreen. There is a change, but it is so small it just becomes part of the 'random noise' that gets excluded from the calculations by rounding off the least significant digit.

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#13
In reply to #3

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 4:20 PM

That, sir, is a keen insight.

I would also warn some of the members how they answer this Poster could come back into play in another incarnation.

To gutmonarch:

The reason we don't have orbits with sharp corners is that we don't all have tiny brains like you do that are acclimatized to brain bounce, thus we could not long sustain the corners, the sharp acceleration, or the flying debris or large tidal waves.

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#14
In reply to #7

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 6:02 PM

Good point. Orbital resonance is quite common in the solar system. Bodies with periods with harmonic relationships lock together whereas other bodies orbits are disrupted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance

(Ratio) and Bodies

Mismatch after one cycle[a]

Randomization time[b]

Probability[c]

Planets

(9:23)

Venus-Mercury

4.0°200

y

0.19
(8:13)

Earth-Venus[36][37][d]

1.5°1000

y

0.065
(243:395)

Earth-Venus[36][38]

0.8°50,000

y

0.68
(1:3)

Mars-Venus

20.6°20 y0.11
(1:2)

Mars-Earth

42.9°8 y0.24
(1:12)

Jupiter-Earth[e]

49.1°40 y0.28
(2:5)

SaturnJupiter[f]

12.8°800 y0.13
(1:7)

Uranus-Jupiter

31.1°500 y0.18
(7:20)

Uranus-Saturn

5.7°20,000 y0.2
(5:28)

Neptune-Saturn

1.9°80,000 y0.052
(1:2)

Neptune-Uranus

14.0°2000 y0.078

Mars system

(1:4)

Deimos-Phobos[g]

14.9°0.04 y0.083

Major asteroids

(1:1)

Pallas - Ceres[40][41]

0.7°1000 y0.0039

[h]

(7:18)

Jupiter - Pallas[42]

0.10°100,000 y0.0040

[i]

87 Sylvia system[j]

(17:45)

Romulus-Remus

0.7°40 y0.067

Jupiter system

(1:6)

Io-Metis

0.6°2 y0.0031
(3:5)

Amalthea-Adrastea

3.9°0.2 y0.064
(3:7)

Callisto-Ganymede[43]

0.7°30 y0.012

Saturn system

(2:3)

Enceladus-Mimas

33.2°0.04 y0.33
(2:3)

Dione-Tethys[k]

36.2°0.07 y0.36
(3:5)

Rhea-Dione

17.1°0.4 y0.26
(2:7)

Titan-Rhea

21.0°0.7 y0.22
(1:5)

Iapetus-Titan

9.2°4 y0.051

Major centaurs[l]

(3:4)

Uranus-Chariklo

4.5°10,000 y0.073

Uranus system

(3:5)

Rosalind-Cordelia[45]

0.22°4 y0.0037
(1:3)

Umbriel-Miranda[m]

24.5°0.08 y0.14
(3:5)

Umbriel-Ariel[n]

24.2°0.3 y0.35
(1:2)

Titania-Umbriel

36.3°0.1 y0.2
(2:3)

Oberon-Titania

33.4°0.4 y0.34

Neptune system

(1:20)

Triton-Naiad

13.5°0.2 y0.075
(1:2)

Proteus-Larissa[48][49]

8.4°0.07 y0.047
(5:6)

Proteus-S/2004 N 1

2.1°1 y0.057

Pluto system

(1:3)

Styx-Charon[50]

58.5°0.2 y0.33
(1:4)

Nix-Charon[50][51]

39.1°0.3 y0.22
(1:5)

Kerberos-Charon[50]

9.2°2 y0.05
(1:6)

Hydra-Charon[50][51]

6.6°3 y0.037

Haumea system

(3:8)

Hiʻiaka-Namaka[o]

42.5°2 y0.55
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#15
In reply to #1

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 6:41 PM

Seems like nature is fond of making circles.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 6:48 PM

A toddler here,buddy. Do mind the tidal waves.

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#17

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/19/2017 7:32 PM

And then there is this....

https://youtu.be/WYcqJ5HdxA4?t=48

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#18
In reply to #2

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 12:00 AM

What causes Keplers Law? Matter or space?

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 4:51 AM

"... causes ..." is a strange way of expressing it, and it's a strange question to ask.

I think "both" is the best-fitting answer. Space without matter: nothing to orbit. Matter without space: nowhere for the matter to move.

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#20
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Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 10:04 AM

That is why we have Hermitian operators, and perturbation theory, right?

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#21
In reply to #11

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 10:08 AM

I truly hope you were not aiming that crap at me: "Yes, that was mostly for the benefit of the two people on this site who DIDN'T know that."

I admit that astronomy is not my primary strength, but I am well aware of the mathematics.

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#22
In reply to #17

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 12:09 PM

Sure, throw the ADVANCED gear designs in when we're trying to keep things simple.

That's so devious, I'm actually upset...

...upset that someone beat me to it.

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 12:14 PM

No, you were not one of the 'two people' I was referring to.

I have a lot of respect for your abilities, and I value your opinions, even if the topic of politics cause us to react to each other like Sodium and Water.

Its one reason I try to avoid talking politics or religion.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 12:23 PM

...and it is probably a reason I dive into either as a seal on a rock dives into water....and the shark suddenly devours him. LOL

I will never hold your hand on those topics, I suspect, but when it counts, I would have your back. Even Mr. JE in Chicago. I don't really hate Chicago, or Illinois, I just think you guys are stupid when it comes to politics. Sorry.

My abilities keep getting me in trouble, mainly because I am lazy, and fail to set things up in a way to cover all the possibilities.

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#25
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Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 1:45 PM

The disagreements are mostly from varying points of view. We 'urbanites' see how our actions affect the 'Wider World' and how the 'Wider World' affects us in return. I had a neighbor I was good friends with, I had helped when she and another neighbor were trying to cut down a dead 'decorative' (aka 'garbage') tree. We always got along well, talking about the weather, or pets (the other neighbor, the one removing the dead garbage tree, owned an American Boxer, and was being persecuted by a crazy lady a few doors down who was terrified of pitbulls(1)), and it was only after she moved away, leaving her propane grill to my next door neighbor(2) that I found out that her husband was working at the Embassy, and that their tour of duty in America had wrapped up. (That was the reason for giving away the grill; it couldn't be shipped internationally by air.) From the cities we see the entire world encroaching in, and because of the already cosmopolitan nature of urban life, we are more likely to treat the new and unusual with interest and curiosity, and we are constantly weighing the value of our traditions when faced with something new.

My knowledge of rural life is admittedly spotty and incomplete. However, I will hazard a few guesses. Feel free to correct me on anything I get wrong. In Rural America, it is the small towns and the few remaining family farms dominating. People don't travel much, and there is seldom more than two churches and one synagogue in the town. Everyone knows everyone else, and, in some way, everyone looks like everyone else. There's a strong sense of Tradition; the father is the head of the household and the master of the family, and he leads the family the way his father led, and his father before him, with every generation gently steered by the local parish into a general uniformity, not like soldiers marching in formation, but more like leaves drifting down the same stream.

Visitors are welcome, and treated with hospitality, but strangers looking to move in and settle down cause a sense of unease. There is little sense of 'the Wider World' as events the next county over seldom affect local life. The people of these towns would prefer to leave the world alone and have the world leave them alone to carry on 'as they have always done.'

What they forget is that things were not so pleasant a few generations ago, and while the adults are 'just showing respect for their elders' by letting the seniors rant on about how this group or that group are no-good hoodlums, they forget that the kids are listening to this, and seeing the adults NOT speaking up to give an opposing viewpoint, so they think that these are the values they are supposed to have.

Rural America calls Urban America 'crazy' for wanting to 'appease' the rest of the world, Urban America calls Rural America 'Insular and Xenophobic' for their desire to ignore what is going on outside the US.

The Republican party leaders appear to LIKE this divergent viewpoint; they enjoy driving wedges in, separating this group from that group and having them fight each other, and then telling both groups that the GOP will protect them from the 'other side.' However, when it comes to actual policies, the republicans only do things to help the rich, while fostering more hatred between their constituents, and blaming any 'failures' on 'those meddling Lib'rals.'

Notes:

  1. I know Boxers are not pitbulls, and this boxer, named Buster, was such a sweet, loving dog, he would not hurt a fly. The only 'critters' in danger around him were the ones made of cloth and stuffed with fluff. The crazy lady convinced a judge to order 'violent animal training' for Buster, and the trainer could not complete the training; Buster was too laid-back to engage in the activities he was supposed to learn the command word to cease. (How do you train a dog to release an arm from his jaws on cue if the dog won't even open his mouth to bite, no matter how hard he is prodded?)
  2. I wasn't upset that I didn't get the grill; I already had two on my porch, one charcoal, one natural gas. If they HAD offered me the grill, I would have just donated it to a neighbor anyway. Tokens of friendship don't matter, the friendship itself is the reward.
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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 1:58 PM

Stereotype:

"My knowledge of rural life is admittedly spotty and incomplete. However, I will hazard a few guesses. Feel free to correct me on anything I get wrong. In Rural America, it is the small towns and the few remaining family farms dominating. People don't travel much, and there is seldom more than two churches and one synagogue in the town. Everyone knows everyone else, and, in some way, everyone looks like everyone else. There's a strong sense of Tradition; the father is the head of the household and the master of the family, and he leads the family the way his father led, and his father before him, with every generation gently steered by the local parish into a general uniformity, not like soldiers marching in formation, but more like leaves drifting down the same stream."

Spoken like a true ignorant urbanite, with no knowledge at all of what really makes this nation work. It is not your fault you are ignorant, it is the failure of an entire generation worth of educational system. Not taking anything away from your skills, which are considerable, please do not condescend to the supposed slow-minded backward rubes from the country or small towns, because we are not driving our father's Oldsmobile. It is a whole 'nother beast now.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 2:00 PM

Nobody I know is saying this: "Rural America calls Urban America 'crazy' for wanting to 'appease' the rest of the world, Urban America calls Rural America 'Insular and Xenophobic' for their desire to ignore what is going on outside the US."

What we object to is the denegration of what we hold to be true, to the immediate acceptance of some other country's idea of what we should do, think, or believe. We are American, and we don't take sh** off anyone. Not now, not ever.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 2:21 PM

"What we object to is the denegration of what we hold to be true, to the immediate acceptance of some other country's idea of what we should do, think, or believe. We are American, and we don't take sh** off anyone. Not now, not ever."

However, when nations notice that each other has been metaphorically 'stepping in doggie doo,' and look down to see their own shoes are covered, does it not make sense for is to all agree to clean our shoes off before walking on the fancy carpets?

We have not been 'bowing to outside pressure' to change the country; we are either leading the changes, as we did with the abolishment of slavery(1), or we are in agreement about the problem and actively involved in the debate over a solution(2). The only problem we seem unable to address is the excessive power that Corporations are wielding over the government.

Notes:

  1. We never got a letter from France saying "Free your slaves, or we will stop sending our good champagne over and only sell you our crap wines."
  2. On topics like pollution or global warming/climate change, our scientists have been in agreement with scientists of other nations, it's only certain politicians who seem to keep pushing the idea that global warming/climate change ISN'T happening(3).
  3. We're having an extended Autumn here in Chicago instead of a proper winter. last winter was mild, so we were expecting a Blizardgeddon this year.
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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 3:20 PM

The year I spent in Illinois experienced one of the milder winters. No snow, only a small flurry of sleet once. But having said that, on clear morning walks to campus, my spit would crackle, before hitting the ground, and did bounce off the ground. Too cold for me, then or now.

Americans need to place our national interest first, but not parallel to the so-called America First movement of the depression. We need to spend money on America.

Our wealth is gone, our shores plundered by evil foreign nations selfish in their intent to raid our good fortune, our natural resources, and to take food out of the mouths of our babies. No more. They want food? They need to stop killing the mother goats we send them. Stupid bastages are too dumb to suck air.

Want food - grow it. Want shelter - make it. Stop raiding Americans, or else.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/20/2017 4:15 PM

"The year I spent in Illinois experienced one of the milder winters. No snow, only a small flurry of sleet once. But having said that, on clear morning walks to campus, my spit would crackle, before hitting the ground, and did bounce off the ground. Too cold for me, then or now."

'Now' we are having a 40 degree F day, in Mid-January. This Is Not Normal.

"Americans need to place our national interest first, but not parallel to the so-called America First movement of the depression. We need to spend money on America."

I agree with you here.

"Our wealth is gone, our shores plundered by evil foreign nations selfish in their intent to raid our good fortune, our natural resources, and to take food out of the mouths of our babies."

This needs a little correction, it's not "evil foreign nations," it's "evil, greedy billionaires."

"No more. They want food? They need to stop killing the mother goats we send them. Stupid bastages are too dumb to suck air."

Now who's stereotyping? You're assuming that the "evil foreign nations" are the same ones as the "impoverished nations that have had their resources stolen and are struggling to survive."

"Want food - grow it. Want shelter - make it. Stop raiding Americans, or else."

The people raiding America are not the poor, impoverished people of the African continent. They are the Corporate CEOs, the ones who ship a factory to Mexico because of the cheaper labor and weaker environmental protection; the ones who push for 'right to work' laws that starve the Unions out of the factories, which then allows the factory boss to underpay the workers, since they no longer have the ability to organize against management's abuse. You are falling for the smoke and mirrors, the enemy isn't the 'evil foreign nations,' it's the Kochs, the Waltons, the ...(you could probably guess I was leading to this)... Trumps. Don't look at the poor 'others' that these people hording the nation's wealth are calling out at the bad guys, look at the people who are greedily hoarding the nation's wealth. Do those 'uber rich' actually follow the same moral standards as you? Does Trump, now on his third wife, after discarding the first two like yesterday's suit, represent the same 'christian family values' as you? Do the Waltons, who hoard Walmart profits while the employees make so little they qualify for FOOD STAMPS, represent the same 'christian charity' you live by?

Why do you think that artist made those statues of a naked Trump, and why do you think they were displayed across the country as 'gurellia art'? This wasn't just to make fun of Trump, it was a message: The Emperor Has No Clothes. We liberals try to spread the message that the GOP is lying to their voting blocks, try to show that the people you elect into office do not share the values they claim to have when they ask for your vote(1). But it seems that every time we try to get the message across, it either falls on deaf ears, or the listener is angrier at having his foolishness revealed than he is at being fooled.

Look, please. Just look at what your Republican politicians DO while in office. Don't listen to their words, you already know works can be used to mislead; we Liberals are accused of using misleading words often. Look at what they do, and ask yourself, "Is this something my father would have told me to do? Is this something I would tell my son to do?" Just look, and ask.

Notes:

  1. It's possible you DO share a 'value' with the Republican officials, but that is a 'value' that I would prefer not to mention here. I want to keep this civil and polite.
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#31
In reply to #19

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/21/2017 8:19 AM

Whats the chances of massive celestial being revolve around a less massive body? Why heavy objects tend to become the center of rotation?

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#32
In reply to #4

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/21/2017 8:30 AM

Say there is a massive homogenous cubic sun, will the orbits of planets a round is follows a square path if it rotates along its axis on a cross section

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/21/2017 11:08 AM

"What [are] the chances of massive celestial being revolve around a less massive body?" - Nil.

As has already been explained by others (and within the various linked articles), the centre of rotation of two bodies is their joint centre of mass.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/22/2017 2:19 AM

Tie a cat to a bull sometime, and see who revolves around whom.

In any rotating system consisting of essentially two point masses:

The center of rotation is the center of moments. Let R = distance from center of small object to large object center. Assume the mass of each object is symmetric with respect to the center of each. M = mass of larger object, m= mass of smaller

r1= distance from center of large object to center of moments (system center)

r2 = distance from smaller object to system center (center of moments).

We know from balancing masses on a scale (and this applies generally), that

r1*M = r2*m, and also r1+r2 =R

Suppose M= 100m

we have the following:

r1*M = r2*M/100 ; r1=r2/100, and 1.01 r2 = R ; also 101*r1 = R

When there are factors of 1,000,000 between the masses, then the larger object really contains the center of moments within itself, and is seen to only wobble, not orbit around.

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#35
In reply to #32

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/22/2017 2:21 AM

No one is going to say that. No, the planets will not act like that, they have better sense than to act that way.

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#36
In reply to #31

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 8:15 AM

Multiple bodies in the same area will all orbit the 'barycenter' or the 'collective center of mass' of all the bodies.

This will tend to be closest to the most massive body in the system, if there is enough of a difference in mass between the bodies. It could even end up INSIDE the most massive body if it outmasses the others by an order of magnitude or two.

So the chance of, say, a Jupiter-sized body orbiting an Earth-sized body would be 'as close to zero as makes no odds,' to quote the late Douglas Adams.

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#37
In reply to #32

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 8:19 AM

"Say there is a massive homogenous cubic sun,"

Okay, we are starting with a universe that does not follow the physical laws of our own, therefore the planetary orbits are whatever you as the Science Fantasy Author want them to be. If the planets get out of position, then the Moon Fairies can fly out and push then where they need to be, and people can have picnics on the surface of the sun, but only at night, when the sun is dark.

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#38
In reply to #37

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 9:17 AM

Nothing but net. I mean his brain.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 3:09 PM

If he wants to talk fictional worlds, I'm willing to indulge him. I've written a few short stories myself, some unpublished, some unpublishable.

I just want him to know that when we're talking about cubical stars, we're talking about fiction, not facts.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 3:15 PM

I don't know....did you see Madonna with that hat on yesterday? That makes her look like a cubical star, or was that a cubicle star?

I think we need a wall between California and the rest of the country if that is where she lives.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 3:53 PM

I haven't payed any attention to Madonna after the went into the depths of debauchery, convinced me that there was nothing left for her to do that would shock me ... and then shocked me by becoming a respectable mother.

It didn't last, but at that point, I felt like she had done everything and everyone she legally could, so any shocking acts at that point would be repetition.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/23/2017 4:13 PM

During the march yesterday, she spoke, wherein she mentioned that she has thought a lot about blowing up the White House! I am joining those calling for her arrest without further disputation.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/24/2017 8:47 AM

You know who else has thought a lot about blowing up the White House? Roland Emmerich. The difference between him and Madonna? He had access to explosives, and he actually did it! It was back in 1996, and the American public LOVED it.

And if Madonna had REALLY been 'thinking a lot about blowing up the White House,' she would realize what a stunningly BAD idea it is as an act of political protest. The above-ground portion of that building is practically a live-in museum, and the underground section is a vital nerve center for the US intelligence agencies.

If she were serious about a violent protest against Trump, she'd be talking about blowing up Trump Tower, where he is intending to live during his term of office.

She can say she's thought about blowing up the white house (which, as I stated above, you can thing about and then decide NOT to do), and you can say she deserves to be arrested for saying that. However, I also have the right to say that I believe you are over-reacting, and arresting people for 'thinking about doing something' is more the actions of a Fascist state than a Democratic one. Arresting people for a 'vague threat' that they cannot back up (and regardless of her past, I doubt she can seduce enough special effects artists to get enough explosives to make a cherry bomb, much less anything that would be a serious threat to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue or anyone working/living there) is 'censoring dissenting speech,' which the government is specifically forbidden to do.

If the government were free to arrest dissenters at will, don't you think Obama's first act would have been to round up all known or suspected members of the KKK and ship them all to Guantanamo? There were a lot of people claiming that Obama's election was 'illegitimate,' and I'm sure he got his share of vague death threats, as well as threats to 'ship him back to Africa,' but there was no hew and cry to arrest those people, was there?

From what I've seen the Popular Vote Loser promise on the campaign trail, and what he has been pushing forward in his first week, I would like nothing more than for someone to sit him down and make him actually aware of all the responsibilities of being President, and that upon finally realizing the job he has taken on, he has a heart attack and dies. As well, five minutes after Trump has shuffled off the mortal coil, Mike Pence has a Vision of his Savior and is 'called Home' before he can even take the Oath of Office. But that's hardly news to you, except for the detail about nobody having to bloody their hands over it, you already know where I stand on the political spectrum.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/24/2017 10:16 AM

I guarantee that I said anything about even thinking of causing the death of others, that would be a taken as a terroristic threat, and I would be arrested.

That is the trouble with you liberals. You do not seem to get the idea of Liberty, and Justice for all, in the even the remotest way. I am done talking with you, because it is pointless talking to a block of cement.

You have exposed yourself to be a moron. No one actually blew up the White House either.

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/24/2017 11:06 AM

I like the idea of Liberty and Justice for ALL, including people who commit the 'treasonous act' of having a dissenting opinion.

"You have exposed yourself to be a moron. No one actually blew up the White House either."

You completely neglected the cues I laid; I was referring to the movie Independence Day. I gave the Director's name, the year the film was released, and the audience's reaction. The movie in general was lackluster; cardboard cutout characters, weak dialogue, but the explosion of the White House was the part everyone was talking about, that Special Effects scene was considered the best moment of the movie, visually. (And being a 'summer blockbuster movie,' it was never intended as more than 'eye candy' to begin with.)

I wasn't even using "Alternate Facts," to borrow a term from the new Administration, a White House WAS blown up, it just happened to be a scale model. This isn't like Trumps "Hyuge crowds, bigger than Obama's crowds," at his inauguration, which were achieved by taking the small groups and forcing them up against the railings to mask the open space behind them. I never said the White House that blew up was the full-scale version at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and I even dropped hints, almost laid down a trail of bread crumbs, to let you find the Facts I was omitting for dramatic effect.

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: Genesis of Planetary Orbits

01/24/2017 1:34 PM

I guess I am the moron for continuing to read your bread crumbs.

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