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Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 7:28 AM

I think if he work in a factory and work hard, he has many practice chances for his job, and he can learn from his master or colleagues, study while work, he will soon become a specialist on his position. If he study in college, he will study many unusal knowledge for his job. is it wasting time? in fact, many students will forget his most college knowledge when he went into factory. there are only a little knowlege useful for his job in a factory. he must study from beginning most time new skill in factory. unless he study right all that suit to his work in future. I dont know if its right?

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#1

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 7:34 AM

The Institution of Chemical Engineers recognises a number of routes towards achieving Chartered Chemical Engineer status. One embraces the 'academic route', which includes an accredited academic course at a suitable further education establishment. Another embraces the 'experience' route, where an individual's capabilities are verified by peer review. In both cases, a 'design project' is required as part of the submission.

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#2

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 8:20 AM

If you like working on the factory floor, then don't. If you like manual labor, then you may be correct if that is what you want to do for the rest of your life. However, if you have ambitions to be more than that, then nothing makes a better investment than investing in oneself. People are rewarded for the programming between their ears. There are a few exceptions where some people are rewarded for the shape of their butt. Check the mirror and see which one fits you best.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 10:36 AM

I work in a factory as an electronics repair technician and am not particularly fond of it. I have worked in engineering and R/D and liked it alot better, from a 'creativity' standpoint, but in this region where I live, the management people primarily look at the college degrees that you posses in order to obtain desirable positions.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 11:17 AM

You can't be certain if you went back to school and got a bachelors, that you would be able to be competative either.

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 7:07 AM

Not at 51 years old, no.

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#13
In reply to #3

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 7:18 AM

Steve-o,

You sound as if you know a lot. Certainly you write well. Have you looked at external degrees (yes, these are real accredited degrees) from either Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey or Excelsior College in New York? Beware, there are diploma mills with the same names; look at the web-site and see if they have a real mailing address. Excelsior grants degrees based on a lot of things, but you can do it on exams alone.

Tom

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 7:23 AM

Thanks Tom, I'll check them out!

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#21
In reply to #3

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 10:11 PM

That is quite common, at least in the US.

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#4

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 11:02 AM

If you're into manual work come to Britain and earn 70kps a year as a plumber or electrician. Much more interesting, except we don't have bored housewives any more, they're all out at work of course.

Though with the amount of regulation you'll probably spend just as much time in the classroom.

And you get to call yourself 'Engineer'!

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 1:28 PM

Over a career life time, your technical education isn't really to support your knowledge of the routine activities and problems that develop in tested existing systems, or similar systems, but to aid with issues that may develop from new or modified systems that do not have the vast experiential component. Additionally, it promotes a more rapid understanding of the variety of systems and information to draw on. From a business side, it is really all about image and prestige, so to be management their is a frequent leaning towards what college you went to and who you know, vary little concern about what knowledge you obtained there.

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#6

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 1:22 PM

You can learn as much as a master/colleague is willing to teach you in the factory.

You can learn as much as a professor/book is willing to teach you in college.

You can learn as much about industry culture and rewarded behaviour in the factory.

You can learn as much about life culture and rewarded behaviour in college.

Outside of that, in regards to gaining skills/knowledge, every person for themselves.

In my opinion, on an average, college graduates could physically (MAYBE) do a non-specific (i.e. not welding) factory workers job, however, in my opinion, on an average, most factory workers could not do a technical college graduates job.

Having said that, in my experience, people I have met with factory backgrounds, whether college degreed or not, have been more knowledgable in their field than the corporate types.

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#8

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/12/2007 8:26 PM

I thought of it that will recieve hotly discussion before I posted. everyone has his opinion on it. on average, there are only two different viewpoint. one support, one not.

I dnont know who is more right. but I think if one work hard and like learn from others experience and books, he will become specialist at his field.

Ofcause he has to be educated basically at first, then he can continue his study in his facotry.

In this information society, there are lots of books and material for his study further more. at the same times, internet will help him best. he can ask the very special question and can get resolve from it in the world. He will has very definit study aim for his work.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 12:10 AM

Competence learned from practical experience is what our employers pay us for- our capabilities.

Education is what gets us hired.

Ongoing education keeps us competent and allows us to make inferences that even our teachers (you used term masters) might not be able to make as they wouldn't have our exact experience or skill set.

In my opinion, education is never wasted; time often is.

I have three kids in college and am going back for masters myself.

Not for the promotion, but for the satisfaction.

Milo

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 4:11 AM

very good.

none like to study by himself when he back home? if not study for B M D diploma and get a better job, why dont buy some books and teachself? in front of computer, you can learn math, electronic and signal process and machinis etc..

but study language is another things. you have to study in class.

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 7:33 AM

Ihave been doing that all my life since I got my bachelors' degree. books, software, staying current on developments in my field and other fields. I'm a metallurgist, many/most years reponsible also forquality and business development as well as for product&process.

But to"change your thinking"- usually such a paradigm shift comes because a great teacher changes your way of thinking,outlook, and helps you get to the next level. Most self study just recycles your same thinking habits applied to new material.

Self study= new material; University= NEw ways of thought.

Languages, what really stuck with me I learned while "stranger in a strange land."

Great question cnpower; I've never regretted a penny spent on education,even when I was working as theboss at the top of the pyramid or with a shovel in my hand a bit further down.

milo

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#11

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 5:40 AM

You could easily substitute "office" for "factory" and I think your question would still be relevent. Unskilled work may be seen as

(a) a starting point in working life

(b) a comfortable refuge from the stress of modern life

(c) a temporary situation due to economic constraints

(d) a prison

Ultimately, I suspect it will depend on how motivated an individual is to "improve" or change their life but also depends on having/recognising the opportunity to make change for the better. Something that is often underestimated, is that a university education, besides the technical knowledge imparted, can give an individual the extra confidence to move forward in their life and strive for better things.

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#16

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 7:42 AM

a good discussion on a good topic. thanks to CN for the topic.

I'd like to throw my 2 cents in, I suppose.

From my experience, we were supposed to "learn" how to learn (study) in high school. My college professors never seemed to be concerned with teaching us how to study, but piled on the material that they expected us to learn. College was the exercise of learning to research, arrive at conclusions and formulate new avenues of research to explore. It was a process of discovering how to "problem solve".

College was a personal growth experience and had little to do with my final profession, but the process of being able to research and arrive at conclusions has stayed with me, and would regardless of whether I worked on my own (have done that) or worked for a corporation (have done that too).

Eventually, the process led me to two later degrees in architecture.

The process of research and study is integral in the practice of architecture with each project, as is the method of finding solutions to each client's program.

I suppose my conclusion would be to say that an education is never wasted, regardless of how tenuous the application is to what the individual appears to be doing for a living.

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#17

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 8:54 AM

One would have to decide if education would have any value to the employer, would you be able to move up or change careers realistically. Your age can be a factor. You have to consider if going in debt to get or finish a college education would be to any advantage at your age. Being in debt for the satifaction of being educated, doesn't get it for me. I'm in that situation now.

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#18

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 9:27 AM

My opinion.

College is a very inefficient way to acquire technical knowledge. The better way is to work in a field getting hands on experience and then learn the theory behind what you are working with. College does it the opposite way. They try to teach the theory to a bunch of students with no practical experience to base their understanding on. Some people do well in a theoretical environment, but most do not.

When I think of the most basics things I did not know after 4 years of engineering college, it is just plain embarrassing.

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#19

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 10:05 AM

What a college degree says to any prospective employer is that the recipient is capable of working their way through some basic amount of bulls**t. The ability to work through bulls**t, rather than quit or avoid it, is important in almost any concievable job. Hence the importance of a degree even if totally unrelated to the job.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/13/2007 10:31 AM

You don't get a lot of practical experience in college, that's for sure. The co-op programs help so that is an advantage. But yeah, a college degree, especially a BS, is just proof that you can learn at a certain pace and a foundation that requires experience to become useful.

But the one thing you'll get at university that you won't get elsewhere is the in-depth mathematics and some of the applications. If you are going to be a design engineer you have to have a good understanding of the maths. There's just no other way.

Other than that time spent working as a tech in some trade will probably get you most of the way to a bachelor's degree. But if you're just crimping connetors or turning a screwdriver then that's all you're going to know, so working on a factory floor isn't going to get you more than two attaboys and one good job.

I like the idea of moving to Britain and becoming a plumber or electrician. Even without the bored housewives.

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#22

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/14/2007 3:17 AM

Education is our common goal in the threads, most of us agree to it. What I want to say is that education is accepted not only in college but in your work position. yui will educate everywhere if you like study, learn from everyone who is more experience thn you.

If you wish to get more better job than present, you must go to college to get M or D diploma.

if you want to be a boss and have your own firm, you neednt to enroll in colllege. you hve to have more skill at your position. and you may study more fast in practice than go to cllege.

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#23

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/14/2007 3:37 AM

Something you will feel not too difficult when you study in a class, but when you do it in a factory, you will find its another things.

In class, there is teacher arrange all for you to do, but when you work in factory, you have to do everything by yourself.

for example, if you design an active filter, you hve to know more about op, components and their features include temperature and precise etc. sometimes this is very troublel.

modern operator neednt to use intigratial and differential operation like past. most of time, only high school math enough.

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#24

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/14/2007 4:00 AM

In factory you havnt to calculate a feedback loop, but you hve to know how to adjust it. if rise too fast you have to know either reduce ratio or increase intigratial etc.

if you are in an institution to design feed back circuit, you certainly have more math knowledge. and it seems they are always not enough forever.

today most young people like to draw 3D graphic and they draw faster and very better than me. but only a little of them know well geometric and algebra than me. and not use them for a long time I forget almost all of these advance geometic and linear algebra. so if you just to be a painter, yu can learn them in your work completely. neednt to learn too deep math.

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#25

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/14/2007 11:30 AM

Learning for experience is great but there is a problem. You know the result from action taken but don't know why. School teach you why. You can't be expert with only one of the above.

Remember all those myth from auto mechanics? They know how to fix a problem but everyone will have their own idea of how and why and most the time they're wrong.

That's why engineer lock in an office could never design good working part or machine.

That's why a machinist could never figure out why a part doesn't work.

Pineapple

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/15/2007 4:52 AM

"That's why engineer lock in an office could never design good working part or machine"

"That's why a machinist could never figure out why a part doesn't work"

Hi Pineapple, you have to be careful not to tar all engineers and machinists with the same brush! Most of the machinists and fabricators I deal with are actually skilled designers, despite not having formal design qualifications - and they can do math!

Some so-called university trained "engineers" I know (and you know who you are :-) ) know just enough about engineering to be dangerous.

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/15/2007 9:33 AM

I would never compare an auto mechanic with a machinist. I think there are some people who can look at all the parts and tell how they work when put together. That is a talent. If the machinist could not figure out why a part doesn't work, then I don't think he would be able to machine it. Unless your speaking about a person who is just taught how to run a computer controlled machine and only loads the stock and maybe does a few measurements. Just my 2 cents.

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#29
In reply to #25

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/15/2007 9:54 AM

Pineapple,

I can't tell if you need to go back to school or need more experience, but I can tell that you have made a more ridiculous statement than I am accustomed to seeing on this site.

I have known machinists that engineers would bring chicken scratch concepts to with little more than a notion. The result of the machinists experience and understanding of how and why far exceeding the engrs impractical and limited math based knowledge to an extreme.

cr3

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#26

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/14/2007 11:19 PM

I have chosen what is a more unconventional path. My grandfather wanted me to be a doctor. Many others spurred me toward law. I chose women and good times.

I went to a tech school. I am now finishing a second degree. I will almost immediatley enroll for my bachelors (mechanical engineering) at age 38.

I have always known I would go to school. But it was absolutely absurd to suggest that someone as spirited and curious about life as me was going to succeed in a four year school at that time. I knew no more of what life was about than a third grader, but was certain that there was value in holding off on school and beating around a bit. I probably will always be in school. The education is very important. So is doing what I like. I had more responsibility (and wages) than many of my peers with all kinds of education in both my previous and to some extent my current job. There are good paying jobs at entry level. So many people seem to think they just go to college and leave with all they need to know about how to do a job. But I am quite old school (no pun intended) and feel that the integration of work and personal interest are vehicles to true self sufficiency and real independence. And, while the idea of apprenticeship is so out of vogue in the States, but I could not disagree more. I am teaching my children to create their own apprenticeship. A two year degree after high school to ensure a lifelong skill or trade. And then a four year in that area of specialty that they then have an understanding of in the real world.

If I had it to do over would I do it different? If I had it to do over I would have made a move on the other Norwegian sister. I don't have it to do over so I make the absolute best out of this spark of a life I have. And I have not a single problem. Only minor situations. For this too, shall pass.

The culmination of experience and continued education are tantamount to success. How or in what order one mixes that sweet elixir is up to the individual.

As for me? Shoot. I'm Texas Charley. Thank you very much Mr. Steinbeck.


cr3

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#34
In reply to #26

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/29/2007 3:36 PM

Should probably, put kids to work around 13. maybe 3-10 years, then send em back to school. need to let the social skills catch up. national service might work for some, a way to wring a bit of the wild out is what's needed. A life skills apprenticeship.

Apprenticeship has fallen out of favor in the more formal sense. There's no real incentive, whens there's scores of us boomers w/too many skills, downsized back into the market. Those days are coming to an end.

Cr3 should be in a good spot, able to replace retiree's w/enough discipline to get things done.

Practice makes perfect, time spent doing the work + critical thinking skills. Now you can actually use the sepcialized information higher learning offers.

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#35
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Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/29/2007 7:28 PM

Aww shucks

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#30

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/17/2007 1:31 AM

Not everyone can go to college again, and has a chance to.

not everyone teacher in colleage is good enough, some of them can only read books.

Do you remember M.Faraday? remembe him. he is a smaple if you cannt go to school again.

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#31
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Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/17/2007 9:46 PM

Have you ever tried to learn online? today there are lots of class online for your study. But I dont know how do you think of them.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/18/2007 7:41 PM

I think I agree somewhat with both sides. Not to sound like an OF, but engineering schools once required a mix of practical and theoretical. Carnegie Tech here in Pittsburgh required Electrical Engineering students to take a foundry course (steel not chips). Many schools required their students to take two years of drafting, etc. Somewhere along the line, we decided engineers were too important to burden with shop courses and likewise decided technicians were too unimportant to waste theoretical courses on. We're the sadder for both.

Yesterday, a PhD engineer that I had been working for applied 3000 psi air to a ball valve and it exploded. Fortunately, the pieces went downstream. When I asked him what happened, he said he had been puzzled because the valve model "700WOG" didn't match any of the data sheets. Double Yoi!

As for online courses, there is a fine set of courses through OpenCourseWare at a number of good schools. The big one here in the States is MIT but there are many. Best part, the courses are free, although you've got to be very self-directed to do these.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Do one have to educate in a university if he work in a factory?

09/18/2007 9:45 PM

Many friends recommand me this MIT, I hve ever visit once, indeed its free courses are good. I try to learn continue. but I always find an excuse no time to leave it anywhere in my computer so far. I wish I could learn it again. Howver, MIT is a famous in the world.

--

btw,

3000psi is about 21MPa, can this 700wog afford this pressure?

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