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Anonymous Poster #1

Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/16/2018 1:45 PM

Hi guys!
Greetings from Poland! =D
Ok, so to the topic.
I have presentation to do for conference.
Topic? Generally any technical.
Last year there were topics like:

  • Ecologic biodegradable electronic systems
  • Automotive refinishing
  • Shaping thin-walled holes with techniques of friction drilling

I want make one to. I already initialy choosed my topic (as in subject) because thats interesting for me (for many years i was sure that nuclear energy is generally best that we have, and now... Germany says "nah").
So what i need:
1) Link... many links to articles that you think can be usefull. Ill, of course, look by myself in my academic library and by google.scholar but many heads better than one (and i hope that this additional heads would belong to someone more familiar with the subject than mine).
2) Alternatively... my topic is not set in stone. If you know that some other one is widely described and easy to find then i'd love to try this one :-)
Thanks for help, guys! =D

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#1

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/16/2018 2:35 PM

What we have seen generally that Germany wants to be green, at least make the appearance that they are, but they seem to be going the wrong direction destroying their base line energy supply, that is a steady supply that can support their infrastructure for greener but unreliable solar and wind sources....this has forced them to buy power from neighboring countries and are ramping up their coal generation power production, that is the least green solution....imo nuclear is the way to go, short of hydroelectric, it can be the cheapest most reliable source...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/business/energy-environment/german-renewable-energy.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/10/10/why-arent-renewables-decreasing-germanys-carbon-emissions/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germanys-energy-use-and-emissions-likely-rise-yet-again-2017

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/opinions/germany-climate-change-secret-paul-hockenos/index.html

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/16/2018 3:59 PM

Nuclear power and electric vehicles is the way to go...and in my opinion, the only way we will reach the goal of significantly reducing greenhouse gas emissions....Germany is now caught between a rock and a hard place, the german car companies, so important to the economy, have failed to embrace the electric car and necessary infrastructure to support them, instead they continue to produce diesel and ice engine vehicles primarily....

fyi:

..."Land use, land-use change, and forestry (LULUCF) is defined by the United Nations Climate Change Secretariat as a "greenhouse gas inventory sector that covers emissions and removals of greenhouse gases resulting from direct human-induced land use such as settlements and commercial uses, land-use change, and forestry ..."..

https://unfccc.int/files/ghg_emissions_data/application/pdf/deu_ghg_profile.pdf

..."Germany is one of the largest consumers of energy in the world.[36]

Renewable energy is more present in the domestically produced energy, since Germany imports about two-thirds of its energy. This however is offset by exports of energy.[37]

Germany is the fifth-largest consumer of oil in the world. Russia, Norway, and the United Kingdom are the largest exporters of oil to Germany, in that order.[38]

Germany is the third-largest consumer of natural gas in the world,[citation needed] and imports gas from Russia via the Nord Stream; in 2016, Germany imported 49.8 billion cubic metres (bcm) of gas from Gazprom.[39] A terminal in Emden opened for gas from Norway in 2016.[40] Germany imports more than half of its energy.[41]

Because of its rich coal deposits it has a long tradition of fuelling its economy with coal. It still is the fourth-largest consumer of coal in the world, even though domestic coal mining has been almost completely phased out, because German coal is a lot more expensive to mine than coal in China or Australia. Germany has the largest national market of electricity in Europe."...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

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#4
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Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/16/2018 4:38 PM

The market share of ev's in Germany...

..."The market share remained at 0.7% in 2016, but rose to 1.6% in 2017"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Germany

Main article: Plug-in electric vehicles in Germany

Annual registration of plug-in cars in Germany by type of vehicle between 2010 and 2017.[50][52][211][212][213][214][215]

As of December 2017, a total of 129,246 plug-in electric cars have been registered in Germany since 2010.[1][215] The country is Europe's largest passenger car market, but ranks only fifth in plug-in car sales in 2016.[34][216] About 80% of the plug-ins registered through September 2016 were registered since 2014.[50][52][217] In 2013 Germany reclassified range-extended vehicles as series plug-in hybrids instead of all-electric vehicles. As a result, the registrations figures for 2012 and older do not account for plug-in hybrids.[218] As of November 2014, the country had 4,800 public charging stations.[219]

A record of 54,492 plug-in cars were registered in 2017, up 217% the previous year, and consisting of 29,436 plug-in hybrids and 25,056 all-electric cars.[215] Registrations achieved a market share of 1.58% in 2017.[215] The top selling models in 2017 were the Audi A3 e-tron (4,454), Renault Zoe(4,322), and BMW i3 (4,319).[220]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/16/2018 6:29 PM

Cheap natural gas is killing nuclear, and subsequently increasing CO2 emissions....It's funny, we are converting to natural gas to reduce global emissions of GHG's and the net effect is exactly the opposite...So we see it's not about clean air and reduction of global warming, it's all about the money....

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/the-cost-of-losing-firstenergys-nuclear-fleet#gs.jnQGAbU

The efficiency of nuclear, petroleum and coal, are all about the same, natural gas is about 20% lower...

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_01.html

Fuel and maintenance costs?....Nuclear wins...only surpassed by hydroelectric...

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_04.html

..."America is at a 27-year low in its carbon emissions almost solely because natural gas has been replacing coal. Gains in efficiency and conservation have also helped. But the loss of several nuclear power plants has effectively wiped out the recent progress of renewables on addressing carbon reductions by increasing gas emissions. New York is struggling with this conundrum as it attempts to force the shutdown of some nuclear plants even as it desperately tries to keep others open."...

So it's not cheaper...? Then why?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2016/05/16/natural-gas-is-replacing-nuclear-power-not-renewables/#445ceb2acdb6

..."The argument that nuclear is too expensive, and that closing nuclear plants would save money, is absurd. Operating an existing nuclear plant is much more cost-effective than even existing coal and gas plants, and much cheaper than installing any new power plant, even natural gas.

Over the next 20 to 40 years, the Levelized Cost of Energy for an existing nuclear plant is only 3¢/kWh. For an existing gas plant the LCOE is 5¢/kWh, and for an existing coal plant it’s 4¢/kWh. The LCOE for a new gas plant is 7¢/kWh, for a new nuclear plant is 9¢/kWh, for a new coal plant is 10¢/kWh, and for new wind is 11¢/kWh. So closing any nuclear plant prematurely makes no sense economically."...

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/16/2018 6:52 PM

..."During these events, fossil fuel generation suffers severe outages, as they did in 2014. Coal stacks were frozen. Diesel generators simply couldn’t function in such low temperatures. Natural gas choked up - its pipelines couldn’t keep up with demand.

And prices skyrocketed in their “free” energy market.

During the last polar vortex, ISO New England, the region’s electricity transmission organization, had to bring up dirtier oil plants to try to make up the difference. Nuclear energy, unaffected by the cold, became the primary provider of electricity in New England, edging out gas 29% to 27% (Hartford Business). Oil generation made up 15% while coal accounted for 14%. Hydro, with little other renewables, provided the rest.

The loss of Vermont Yankee has further stressed the region’s ability to respond to extreme weather. Before it was closed, Vermont Yankee was the fifth-largest source of electricity generation in New England, accounting for 4% of New England's total electricity generation and more than 70% of generation in Vermont.

New England has put too many of their energy eggs in the gas basket without thinking about what that means in terms of building the required pipelines and other infrastructure. For the last few years, ISO has warned New England about becoming increasingly dependent on natural gas for both electricity and home heating, to the exclusion of all else.

ISO knows that low diversity in sources for electricity is dangerous, just like in biology. As demand for natural gas in home heating spikes in winter, there is much less fuel for power plants. And proposals for new gas pipelines have been stomped down.

Fierce opposition to building new pipelines from the shale gas-rich areas of western New York and Pennsylvania comes from concerns over fracking technologies, pipeline leaks and climate change. Even new transmission lines to carry hydropower from Quebec can’t find support in the people of New England.

So if you close nuclear plants for ideological reasons, close coal plants because of climate change, choose natural gas over all else but prevent associated pipelines and infrastructure from being built, then you’re probably going to have a reality check sometime soon.

Let’s hope it doesn’t happen during a polar vortex."...

So the're closing nuclear power plants based on ideological reason, political pressure and political correctness...It'll be the death of us yet!

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#16
In reply to #7

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/17/2018 12:54 PM

WOW! You're 'on a roll' today! Good work!

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/17/2018 1:01 PM

agreed,.. I wish in college I had someone like SE on my design team.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Nuclear Energy in context of Germany withdrawing from it

04/17/2018 1:46 PM

Thanks, yes one of my special areas of interest...and most frustrating(sic)...

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#2

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/16/2018 3:02 PM

I've heard that Germany was pushing for green energy such as wind.

As far as Nuclear, there are nuclear processes that are 'safer ' than current nuclear power generation, such as Molten Salt Reactors

And its rather fail safe, if the coolant pumps ever fail.... it has a plug that acts as a fuse, when it melts away, it releases the salts and basically shuts down the reaction.

Also the salts stay radioactive for only centuries and not hundred of thousand years.

I'm sure this was discussed here, if you do a search here on CR4, you'll find some good discussions.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 9:21 AM

There was one thing I wanted to add, and this was more so from experience.

Back in the 80's we had an exchange program between American and European farmers. It was basically touring on farms between the two to share experiences and technology.

When the Germans were over here the host farms had a methane generator that used animal waste to power generators. The American farmer was quite proud of it, in this country at the time, he was an innovator (with the help of government grants, subsidies and help from the power company.)

The farmer explained what the process was and the Germans were not impressed; when asked why their response was that the 'cutting edge' technology we were using at the time is 30 years old for them.

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#5

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/16/2018 5:41 PM

Thank you guys!
Havent expected so full replay!
Now i need some time to read thats all.

You are the best! =D

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#18
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 1:02 PM

Thanks for identifying yourself. There was no need to post as anonymous in the first place. I tend to ignore anonymous posts; fortunately, I did look at this one...

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#8

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 6:07 AM

Nuclear energy would be great except for the spent rod problem. If nuclear plants were built that would have spent rods that last only 25 years, then that would be the way to go. However, it's cheaper to use uranium (refined, of course) than to use the spent rods. This is another instance where cheaper is not better. Storing the spent rods for 50,000 years is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

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#10
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 10:03 AM

It stands to reason that we will find a profitable use for this waste in time, probably through technologically superior robotic processing, and this "waste" will become a fuel....at least we know where this material is and how to safely store it, it's the uninformed that stand in the way....I don't know what type of 'catastrophe' you refer to...What exactly do you think will happen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturally_occurring_radioactive_material

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_radioactivity

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#11
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 10:29 AM

A bomb or natural explosion or earthquake or man made disaster could occur that would put this radiation into the atmosphere and kill every living thing. 50,000 years is a long time to watch something as deadly as nuclear radiation.

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#13
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 10:37 AM

You don't think it's possible, or probable, that we will find a profitable way to utilize this 'waste'? You are aware that there is nuclear fuel processing plants...? To stop research now would be the disaster...The only reason we have nuclear waste now is because this government refuses to reprocess it into fuel...

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#15
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 11:06 AM
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#20
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 3:08 AM

Please learn about half-life and elementary arithmetic.

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#12

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 10:30 AM

Great guys. Every single word in this topic is usefull to me =D
Just to be sure... this thread will not be erased in the next 2 weeks to save storeage, right?
Or should i print screen everything? =p

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#14
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/17/2018 10:41 AM

No there is no plans to save space by erasing threads that I am aware of....at the top of the column you will see a title Latest Forum Threads, next to that highlighted is a link see all threads, click on that and scroll down till you reach this thread....

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#21

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 10:04 AM

This is the problem, we have people driving legislation that have no understanding of the power infrastructure...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2018/04/18/nuclear-power-under-attack-again-this-time-from-the-ballot-box/#416e0de41015

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#22
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 10:30 AM

Those of us that are against nuclear power that produces thousands of years of storage of the waste don't need any understanding of the power infrastructure. We realize the risk and don't want that much risk. We also know that life is a risk. We know that driving a car is a risk, but the risk is small and we are willing to take the risk.

I will only support nuclear power plants that have safe waste or at least a short time for the radioactivity to decay to a safe level. They do exist. But the electrical power produced costs more. A lot of us have embraced solar and wind power and their power costs more. No, the risk of the spent rods getting damaged and putting deadly radioactivity in the air is just too great.

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#23
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 11:15 AM

Look at (No, STUDY): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_by_death_toll

How many deaths do you find that occurred due to accidents at, or related to, power stations in the US?

Nuclear generation of electric power has been by far the safest method of power generation since its inception.

If those fuel rods remain significantly radioactive (yes, they currently do), then that means they contain energy that ought to be extracted. We just have to develop the methods to do so economically and safely.

Your fear of nuclear energy is a knee-jerk reaction resulting from a lack of understanding of reality.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 12:04 PM

We certainly face a much greater risk of electrical infrastructure failure than any threat from nuclear power plants....loss of power in an extreme weather event could cause loss of life in the thousands....and the collapse of our energy structure at an inopportune time of political upheaval or foreign threat could be much worse...The energy infrastructure of this country is critical to our stability as a nation...If we eliminate all of our nuclear power plants, we would have daily power outages like any third world country, and without reliable communication, well we would be a third world nation....Is that what you want...because that seems to be what you are advocating...

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#25
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 1:45 PM

No, no one I know want's that. But we do want a safe planet. Storing spent nuclear rods is a risk too great to take. You trust that they will be held safely and someday we will be able to use them up. During the interim period we run the risk of destroying the planet. You seem to accept the risk. I don't.

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#26
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 4:17 PM

There is no chance of destroying the planet with nuclear power plant failures, this is absurd....even in a worst case scenario such as Chernobyl, the exclusion zone is only 33 miles square....and people still live there....

http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/europe/inside-the-tragic-town-of-pripyat-which-is-too-unsafe-for-people-to-live/news-story/16ee0eae0d65b78b03294c4c4432eadb

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#27
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 4:25 PM

There is no danger of destroying the planet, or the human race, from any accident or malfeasance regarding spent nuclear fuel rods.

There IS a danger of destroying the human race by excessive emissions of CO2, methane, and several other gasses. Your risk assessment is based on myths!

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#28
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 5:32 PM

OK, bust up a bunch of nuclear rods and see what you get. All other environmental distresses are important, too. Bust them up and see what you get. No Myth!!!

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#29
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Re: Nuclear Energy in Context of Germany Withdrawing From it

04/18/2018 6:25 PM
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