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There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/15/2021 3:32 PM

This is green energy in action...People are dying...Nuclear energy doesn't care how cold it gets....

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/texas/how-long-do-rolling-blackouts-last/285-20fc4086-964d-4d6f-98f7-7b995fb58a15

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#1

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/15/2021 3:37 PM

You think it's bad now.

Wait until we put 100 million EVs on the grid.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/15/2021 3:46 PM

If you have an EV you can't even go out and start the engine to heat up a little...You're forced to rely on a wood stove or fireplace....we're going backwards!

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001/

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#3

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/15/2021 4:29 PM

Ooops. Another inconvenient truth. Mother Nature doesn't always play nice with your plans.

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#4

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/15/2021 11:03 PM

What!!

Snow in in Texas? Nah.....

But in all seriousness, I have to disagree with your statement "Nuclear energy doesn't care how cold it gets...."

It sure does!

.....Delta T rules!! Tha colda tha betta!

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#5
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 4:41 AM
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#6

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:02 AM

Every reason for that. Its called bad planning and filling folks full of hype. The turbines turn very well in Sweden at -21C and the solar panels are simply cleaned of snow. They actually have a crew to do this. The only issue with turbines is that they have a tendency to shed ice from the blades when turning, so we know to stay away from them.

However, Vestas has a nice issue with turbines falling over of late in cold weather, Clearly cost saving in the supply chain or poor quality control in builds.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2020/11/23/591674.htm

https://reneweconomy.com.au/vestas-wind-turbine-topples-in-sweden-at-unfinished-project-24809/

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:39 AM

Have you ever tried to scrape ice off your windshield? Right, now imagine you have 30,000 windshields and the windshields are thin and breakable...and the wind turbine blades can't turn to shed ice...

Sweden's energy mix....

Texas energy mix....

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#8
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:34 AM

Can it get worse? Yes, in fact it can get much much worse...This could spread and become a regular occurrence....The increasing unreliability of the power grids, and the increasing demand at irregular intervals, is a perfect storm brewing....Demand fluctuation plus grid unreliability = disaster....

https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/ocean-topics/climate-ocean/abrupt-climate-change/are-we-on-the-brink-of-a-new-little-ice-age/

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:50 AM

Sometimes the cost saving does not justify the future catastrophic cost that can happen a few years later. The adage, "It will never happen," will happen! IPP's always want the cheapest cost, fastest build to gain profits and pay the interest on the huge loans.

https://www.windpowerengineering.com/cracking-icing-problem-turbine-blades/

Perhaps the US needs to start installing blades with incorporated deicing features.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:55 AM

https://twitter.com/SPPorg/status/1361381521630838785/photo/1

https://spp.org/about-us/

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#11

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 8:52 AM

I don't believe you. I think you actually misspoke. If there were absolutely no reason for something to happen that means it cannot be prevented. We just have to live with the outcome and stop whining.

The actual reason for this is the same as it has always been, money. Spending the money to clean snow off of solar panels and to keep wind turbines spinning as they do in Sweden is just not cost effective in Texas. Similarly, doing all of the power line pathway clearing maintenance done in the Gulf coast states is just not cost effective here on Long Island because we do not get as many severe tropical storms as the Gulf coast states. Isaias comes to the North East and I lose power. I lived through it and I prayed for those who did not. Life moves on.

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#12

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 9:53 AM

You really should not complain too much about a small power outage. In S Africa it is common to go without electricity for days on end. From 8am until 8pm and this can be daily, and they have electricity. They simply call it Load shedding and I know of areas that have not had electricity for over a year in their homes but they still get a billing each month. Power outage is even done to a schedule.

https://www.eskom.co.za/Pages/LS_schedules.aspx

Save money, burn down the dog kennel for heat, cooking and hot water. Great to go back to grass roots living. Flintstone living is making a comeback.

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#13

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 10:55 AM

WRONG !!! Absolutely ground truth proven wrong. While nuclear reactions don't care about the temperature, nuclear power plants do. The South Texas Nuclear Power Plant, provides about 5% of Texas's electric power, is completely frozen shut down.

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#14

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 1:39 PM

You have to view wind and solar in the proper context. As power generation, they are pretty much useless and actually a drag on the grid. They are strictly a virtue signal. They make people feel good because they have put a bunch of money(other peoples') into a green power source. We should be reaching a limit soon when the blackouts become more frequent.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 5:56 PM

No, not really...

..."One of the two reactors of the South Texas Nuclear Power Station in Matagorda County, knocking out about half of its 2,700 megawatts of generating capacity. On Monday, Unit 1 went offline cold weather-related issues in the plant’s feedwater system, said Vicki Rowland, lead of internal communications at STP Nuclear Operating Company.

The feedwater system is a non-nuclear component of the plant, said Rowland. The nuclear side, she said) is safe and secured.”

Unit 2 continues to operate normally, providing more than 1,300 megawatts of electricity, according to Rowland. Crews are working to promptly return Unit 1 to the grid, said Rowland."...

Good luck trying to freeze up a nuclear reactor...haha

https://www.lmtonline.com/business/energy/article/Power-tight-across-Texas-winter-storm-blackouts-15953686.php?utm_campaign=hptexas

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#16

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 5:59 PM

Green energy has nothing to do with a poor electrical grid. Texas has problems almost every year in the summer heat. Here in Chicago, we also have temperatures in the 100s in summer, but higher humidity. Winter, on the other hand, much colder and windier. While Texas struggles in -4F weather, we're business as normal at -12F, none of this counting wind chills. We've had around 3 feet of snow within the last two weeks. Same goes with the rest of the north central states, not many issues (yes, you will find some minor ones). Nuclear power wasn't killed by green energy either, it was the cost of and problems with disposing the radioactive waste. Not even Texas wants to store it there. And nuclear energy doesn't stop snapped power lines during the very cold weather, but correct tension does.

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#17
In reply to #9

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 5:59 PM

That wouldn't help....there's no wind

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:16 PM

The only problem with storing of nuclear waste is the political will to do it...A safe storage site has been carefully chosen, it's just being blocked for political reasons...the state is blackmailing us for more money....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nuclear_waste_repository

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#19
In reply to #15

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:33 PM

Never said to freeze a reactor. The deal is a nuclear POWER PLANT is more, a lot more, then the reactor. While the reactor is the engine; a car with an engine, but no wheels, or transmission or axels or fuel tank or.... is a nothing car.

FYI: I visited South Texas during it's build and the reactor is one of the smallest systems at the plant. The biggest system is the cooling system which includes a 20-acre lake for cooling water. A lake that is not very useful when the pipes freeze.

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#20
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:50 PM

For some purely Texas reason or another, Texas has it's own independent Grid. ERCOT (The Electric(ity) Reliability Council Of Texas operates Texas's grid. I use the term "operates" very loosely. They have done a horrible job for decades. The seem to manage the grid in favor of corporate facilities and core business districts forgetting the basic fact that a corporate high rise or manufacturing plant without workers is basically a stump. Right now 80% of Houston's residential areas are without power. Only the oldest near downtown residential neighborhoods have power. Them and downtown which is lit up like a Christmas Tree; a vacant Christmas Tree. It seems all the ornaments, people who work there, are home freezing in the dark and the lucky ones like myself have very limited mobility because the street traffic control and night lights don't have power too.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:51 PM

What is an interesting question is that why would pipes that carry a lot of water, that's being heated by the cooling requirements of a thermal plant freeze in the first place?

I suspect it has a lot to do with the operating license of the plant and the conditions under which it has been certified to operate. It doesn't mean the plant wasn't capable of operating under these conditions, but rather the regulations state that the plant may only operate under a specific set of conditions. I haven't been able to find out exactly why it was shut down. Vague information abounds.

" . . . Unit 1 went offline cold weather-related issues in the plant’s feedwater system, said Vicki Rowland, lead of internal communications at STP Nuclear Operating Company."

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 6:56 PM

If the pipes are frozen, then how is one reactor still operating?

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#23
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:01 PM

I suspect it has something to do with the computer operating system analogues which were programed without regarding the fact Texas gets a ridiculously brutal cold snap once every 25-years.That is, at least for a place that where any location therein can easily have 90* days, often above 100*, 3/4's of the year.

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#24
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:07 PM
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#25
In reply to #23

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:22 PM

Yes, exactly what I was saying.

The system is only licensed to operate over a set of approved conditions. Any one of those variables goes outside of the envelope, and they are required by law to shut it down until conditions fall back within the acceptable range. And that's the way it should be.

Apparently Reactor #1 license may be different than Reactor #2 license.

If climate change requires an update to the safe operating envelope, then they would need to re-do the license for the new conditions. Like you said, nobody ever thought they would have to operate in such cold conditions in South Texas, even though nuke plants all over the world operate in far colder temperatures. But they were licensed for those cold temperatures.

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#26
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:35 PM

I don't think the pipes are frozen. See #25 above. I believe the two reactors have different operating licenses, and #1 fell out of the approved temperature range and was taken off-line. I seriously doubt anything was tripped. The operators shut it down because they are required to do it.

They don't have the option of saying, "Well the outdoor temperature is only two degrees below the limit, so it should be fine, keep on operating the reactor." And that's good. We don't want 'cowboys' running our nuke plants.

I hope I didn't offend any cowboys with that characterization that cowboys might play fast and loose, and take chances, and have a set, and . . . .

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#27
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:47 PM

I agree. All the ads I remember have said nothing about the electric power usage, and that you're really transferring the pollution to wherever the generators are (ignoring which one is more efficient.) Is the electric grid in all parts of the country ready for this? Just one of the reasons I think we will have to go to fast nuclear to provide the electricity needs of society. Eliminating combustion processes in order to reduce pollution, implies that we will be using electric heat, either hear pumps or resistance.

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#28
In reply to #6

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 7:55 PM

However, Vestas has a nice issue with turbines falling over of late in cold weather,

When I worked for an electric power pole manufacturer, most of the utilities wanted Charpy values on their steel; 15 foot-pounds at -20 degrees as I remember. Is Charpy steel what was lacking when the turbine towers were designed?

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#29
In reply to #13

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 8:06 PM

Stephen: Please explain. I hadn't heard this. Why does it happen?

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#30
In reply to #16

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 8:15 PM

RR: problems with disposing [of] the radioactive waste

This would be waste from thermal reactors; which, with reprocessing, can be used as fuel in fast reactors. Fast reactors reduce the waste problem by around 100 times, because they can use the other parts of the waste for energy.

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#31
In reply to #18

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 8:16 PM

Yup!

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#32
In reply to #18

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/16/2021 8:43 PM

And Harry's not in the picture anymore either.

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#33

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/17/2021 4:18 AM

Not so sure - should the PV panels not be cleaned after snow? That is bad planning or inadequate maintenance, albeit in the face of a seemingly rare event. Not sure what the design parameters were. Same for the wind turbine blades icing up - I wonder how other cold countries deal with it. Maybe different designs/materials? And were the problems purely on the generation side (I noted talks of the nuclear plant that also failed in the discussions), or were there transmission/distribution line failures due to wind and/or icing too? But we seem to be getting to a point in some areas where lack of energy storage is becoming problematic.

I recall a very bad snowstorm here about 15 yrs ago, that snapped some powerlines and pylons, as they were not designed for icing, such events being very rare. Parts of the district were without power for a few days. So, the utility will probably do cost-benefit analysis for a failure once in 50-odd years in the local case?

When new nuclear plants can guarantee a build in time and on budget, with the final costs/kWh as stipulated in the original business case, and operate sustainably and profitably, we can maybe talk, but this seems to become more and more unattainable in Western countries.

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#34
In reply to #12

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/17/2021 4:48 AM

Ahem, I think we need to qualify (it is bad, but not that bad!)

Loadshedding (it sounds so much better than rolling black-outs, doesn't it!) is when our much maligned single utility, Eskom, cannot provide enough power, usually due to excessive generation plant breakdowns. This is mostly caused by inadequate preventive maintenance. (I think last month they were at <60% of fleet availability!) When this happens, the "loadshedding" starts, and happens according to a schedule, with severity scales from Level 1 to Level 8. You get loadshedded (a new verb!) for two hours at a time. It would usually be only once per day with the odd day off at Levels 1 & 2, but can be up to 4 times daily from level 6 onwards (extremely rare). For example, last week was a bad week, and I think we had level 2 loadshedding for 3 days.

It sometimes happens that equipment fail when re-energised, and that will obviously take hours or longer to repair. I don't think such multiple switching were included in the design specs! The municipalities and Eskom has also learnt the hard way to reconnect small batches of clients at a time, as otherwise all power-hogging appliances such as geysers, air-cons, kettles, fridges, etc. for a whole suburb starting simultaneously will just trip the overload protection. So your 2 hrs usually ends up as 2½ hours.

Power cuts for longer than that is usually due to either technical failure (cable, substation, transformer, etc,) or theft. There are some places where the rate of illegal connections are so high that power is disconnected to protect equipment from damage - and probably revenue protection too. The problem is that the paying residents & businesses suffer alongside the power thieves, hence IQs accurate comment about receiving a bill - usually your monthly connection fee - even without power, which is a different, ridiculously difficult matter to resolve.

Oh, and BTW, an entrepreneurial person even came up with a popular free app, so that you know when your suburb's turn for loadshedding is. It is called EskomSePush, meaning Eskom's Push (though in Afrikaans, push sounds close to the English for pu##y, and people are fed up with Eskom). It pushes notifications to your phone, which is quite handy!

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/17/2021 10:49 AM
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#36
In reply to #34

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/17/2021 12:02 PM

And those loadshedding notifications let the thieves know when it is safe to illegally tap into the lines.

Unfortunately, when theft is not aggressively prosecuted, theft will spiral out of control from those who feel entitled to take something that they did not pay for out of desperation or anger.

We have cities here in the U.S. where they are experimenting with not punishing criminals. They should spend some time living with you to understand the ramifications of that sort of lunacy.

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#37

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/17/2021 1:43 PM

Can a natural gas line freeze up? Well the gas can't freeze, but the water in the gas line can, and does every year in some lines....It can be prevented by removing the water from the gas lines, which is done in some locations....

..."The best way to prevent freezing is by dehydration, the removal of water from the gas stream. Simply stated, with no water, there is no freezing. One way to remove water is through glycol absorption. As gas passes through the glycol inside a contactor, the glycol meets up with a mixture of water vapor and hydrocarbons."..

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#38

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 2:25 AM

All energy is <...nuclear...>. It is formed in big furnaces called stars. Everything else is just a storage medium.

Anyone might think from the tone of this thread that there was some form of exclusivity, which is not the case. One merely uses the most appropriate source for the job.

Some way of getting the snow off the panels is the proper challenge.

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#39
In reply to #7

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 2:28 AM

It's a very young country.

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#40
In reply to #21

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 12:58 PM

I suspect that some safety related critical function connected to the downed reactor is not functioning due to the cold or some other thing froze and they can't make enough steam to generate but they were able to prevent that from happening with the working reactor. I don't think anyone here has enough information to know.

Put it more plainly - they are not allowed to operate a nuclear reactor unless all the safety functions are working to spec (as required by the license).

It's all from the same cause. The Texas power grid is not prepared for this weather because the operators don't want to spend the money to do it and there are no regulations requiring them to do what is necessary to provide the essential service under these conditions. This is true even though this is the 3rd occurrence of mass cold weather outages since 1989 and they were advised that they needed to upgrade for colder weather events after the 2nd one (2011?). The source of generation is beside the point.

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 3:59 PM

Have you ever seen the Sun shining brightly when it's snowing and freezing rain? You can clean the wind turbines and the solar panels but if you have neither wind nor sunshine, it's not going to help...It works intermittently by design...Installed capacity is not reality, it's a number meant to be divided by three, and that 30% is delivered randomly...Renewable energy in this context is a sometimes available third world solution, to an on-demand 21st century world...it doesn't work!

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 4:03 PM

It's snowing with freezing rain right now outside my window. I don't need to use a flashlight to see my snow covered car. Diffused sunlight is still sunlight.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 4:10 PM

As long at 10-25% of the normal photovoltaic output is sufficient for your needs.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/08/solar-panels-work-cloudy-days-just-less-effectively/

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 4:21 PM

One should design for less than optimal operating conditions to assure reliability. Then again we are discussing Texas engineering.

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#45
In reply to #41

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 4:42 PM

I don't think, or at least I hope, that anyone not pushing an agenda believes wind or solar or other renewables can be the 100% - 24/7/365 electricity source without adequate storage and other backups from other technologies. IMO the new small nuclear designs should be part of the fleet and some amount of burned fuel generation will be always be needed for load leveling.

Part of Texas' current problem is they are (by choice) mostly isolated from the rest of the national grid so they can't take advantage of power generation where the wind is blowing and the sun is shining and the pipes aren't frozen. Texan cities not on the Texas grid have power or suffered less.

But some, for their own reasons, have pushed the idea that wind and solar are somehow the core of the problem instead of suffering from the same failures of the overall system and when they only represent on 10%-15% of the whole. If only wind and solar sources were lost the blackouts would have been a lot less extensive.

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#46
In reply to #44

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 4:54 PM

The situation in Texas provides a valuable lesson for those who are paying attention. Platitudes are not a substitute for sound engineering. Do any of these people have a clue as to what needs to be done to prevent this from happening?

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 5:10 PM

Why should they have a clue how to make reliable energy in Texas? None of those three have any training in Energy or how things work in Texas. On the other hand this guy thinks this is to be expected.

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#48
In reply to #45

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 5:31 PM

Haven't you heard we're going to 100% renewables...

..."As president, Biden will lead the world to address the climate emergency and lead through the power of example, by ensuring the U.S. achieves a 100% clean energy economy and net-zero emissions no later than 2050."...

https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

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#49
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 6:02 PM

100 million? , try 276 million....

That's right we have to triple electrical output, as we phase out oil, gas, coal and nuclear power plants....Does anybody here believe we can do that in 30 years? Does anybody even believe it's possible?

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#50
In reply to #48

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 6:28 PM

Now what do you think the situation would be like if solar and wind were the only sources of power available? That is the goal of the present administration...

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#51
In reply to #20

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 7:48 PM

And the board is made up of political friends of the governor and energy executives. Obviously, they're going to do the cheapest thing possible that wins them the votes.

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#52
In reply to #47

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 7:52 PM

No but those three above sure believe it is the answer to all our problems. They have no clue and yet they will jam it down our throats.

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#53
In reply to #41

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 7:54 PM

You obviously never experienced lake effect snow, where the wind blows it inland for miles. We also have lightening during snowstorms, like the one we had a couple weeks ago when temperatures were about 10F. I'm starting to think you're living on a small remote island in the middle of the Pacific!

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#54
In reply to #53

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 8:04 PM

You lost me on this one. I'm not sure how this responds to #41.

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#55
In reply to #35

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 8:15 PM

That's still in development and waste is still an issue. https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1417/ML14170A133.pdf

I do agree, we need to keep searching for something better or greatly improve upon the older designs.

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#56
In reply to #48

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 8:24 PM

It's better we continue to move forward with technology; solar, wind, nuclear etc..., than it is to stay with the old technology; gas and coal. If we fall behind, we will be buying from other countries and lose a lot more jobs than what's been lost already (net loss). Staying ahead will provide greater future job security and allow us to sell abroad. Currently, US coal and gas sales exported are shrinking as other countries look to alternatives. As newer technologies are developed, within the next couple decades for sure, this advancement will accelerate. Progress does not listen to grumpy old men! If it did, we'd still be hunter-gatherers.

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#57
In reply to #30

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 8:35 PM

They still have waste that needs to get stored somewhere. It's still radioactive and still takes a substantial time to decay. It will certainly help that they are more efficient, but they are not perfect. Would you and your neighborhood feel comfortable if these were store in your town? Usually, when waste or reactors are put nearby, home prices drop. It really doesn't matter how safe it is, it's the perception... who wants to have Godzilla walking on their homes or grow a third leg?

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#58
In reply to #37

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 8:50 PM

Well, your question doesn't place limits, so yes, it can freeze up. Gas-Liquid-Solid (maybe another state or two in there these days). Texas didn't design any of their energy systems, including water delivery, for these cold temperatures. Plus, ERCOT said people usually use much less energy, so they usually take parts of the system down in the winter for maintenance. ERCON also said they were only using 7% of the energy from windmills and solar and that they are not designed for this cold. Here in the Midwest, we have a lot of windmills and solar, they work just fine, but they were designed for it. Our plumbing and gas work fine too, but they are buried well below the frost line. This is Texas, where they try to get around everything for business. Look at how often they have deadly chemical factory or vehicle explosions. It's just cheap engineering, because of politics.

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#59
In reply to #54

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 11:26 PM

You've also have not experienced lake effect snow. Bright sunshine, blue skies, not a cloud in the sky but still a flurry of snow settles upon the land during lake effect snow.

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#60
In reply to #56

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 11:38 PM

So you think it's better to go with expensive and unreliable technologies rather than cheap and dependable technologies? Since when has that ever been a winning strategy?

Coal and gas exports....you have no clue

The US exports around 100 million short tons of coal per year...we produce over 700 million short tons...and natural gas production has hit another record high in both production and exports.....

In 2019, dry natural gas production increased by 10%, reaching a record-high average of 93.1 billion cubic feet per day (Bcf/d). U.S. natural gas consumption increased by 3%, led by greater use of natural gas in the electric power sector. Natural gas gross exports increased 29% to 12.8 Bcf/d.Oct 5, 2020

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45377#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20dry%20natural%20gas,%25%20to%2012.8%20Bcf%2Fd.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/imports-and-exports.php

We have finally reached energy independence after trying for nearly 50 years, and you want to throw that all away....

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#61
In reply to #55

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 11:47 PM

The "older designs" are still working safely and reliably after 40 years...and I might add that waste is only an issue if we make it one...There is no problem storing nuclear waste at Yucca mountain other than political opposition...It's stored on-site now with no problems, surely moving it to a safer location reduces any perceived risk...

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#62
In reply to #59

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/18/2021 11:59 PM

Clean the solar panels? We can't even find them....

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#63
In reply to #27

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 10:44 AM

The US alone uses 390 million gallons of gasoline daily.

A gallon of gasoline has the equivalent energy density of 33.7 kwh of electrical power.

The typical gas turbine today can provide between 220 and 300 mw of power. They can be put on line in as little as 6 months, but look how many you will need. Not to mention the grid upgrades and the substations that need to be built.

It takes years to get a nuclear plant on line.

See where this nightmare is going to end?

I'm all for "green" but we need to move s l o w l y.

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 11:06 AM

Do you think we are not?

Your estimate is OK to make a valid point on capacity but does not take in to account excess capacity in the current system or how EVs are more efficient than ICVs.

The operators of the electrical grid(s) won't add the kind of capacity you're talking about until they cannot meet the demand. I imagine we'll hear about that in the news before it actually happens, and long before anyone spends a dollar to address it there will be some consequences like widespread rolling blackouts.

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#65
In reply to #61

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 12:18 PM
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#66
In reply to #59

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 1:21 PM

Bull. How do you know what I've experienced in my life?

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#67
In reply to #57

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 3:25 PM

it's the perception

Yes, the perception, and some of those people tend to be very vocal about it. Do you have any suggestions on how to combat that? Fast nuclear is about 100 times better than thermal nuclear, but thermal nuclear is what many people are aware of, thus their resistance.

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#68
In reply to #63

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 3:43 PM

I'm all for "green" but we need to move s l o w l y.

Wrong in my opinion! At this point, many nuclear plants are first-of-a-kind, which take quite a bit longer. Once the political climate lets us build same-as plants, things will go much faster. Plus, the SMRs are being designed to be buildable in a factory; thus, a lot quicker to get online. Depending on how the total system is designed, infrastructure may not be a problem, because the nuclear plant can replace a coal/gas plant--that is, be the heat source for the existing infrastructure.

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#69
In reply to #49

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 3:48 PM

You could build out enough gas turbines in 20 years to charge that many EVs.

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#70
In reply to #66

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/19/2021 4:36 PM

Why must you be abusive when I'm just trying to answer your question? If you cannot remember what lake effect snow was when you experienced it then don't blame me for concluding you never experienced it.

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#71

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 5:12 AM

Disingenuous nonsense.
The reason people are dying in Texas is because, it isolated itself from the grid didn't invest or adequately plan or maintain it's infrastructure.
https://www.businessinsider.com/texas-blackouts-millions-lost-power-in-storm-went-wrong-2021-2?r=US&IR=T

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#72
In reply to #69

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 10:04 AM

That wasn't the question, the Biden administration plans to go 100% renewable energy by 2050...that means no gas turbines...I have no doubt that we could meet demand with current sources....

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#73
In reply to #71

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 10:21 AM

Yes, but why is that the situation? Could it be that they have been spending billions on unreliable sources of energy instead of upgrading and maintaining the current infrastructure?

https://www.texaspolicy.com/renewable-energys-success-has-come-at-the-expense-of-texas-taxpayers/

Disingenuous nonsense, or truth point blank?

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#74
In reply to #72

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 12:00 PM

There was no specify question in your original post!
You say "...I have no doubt that we could meet demand with current sources...."
I'm assuming that's a typo... as self evidently, you can't meet the demand now!
If you mean renewables in their current state won't meet demand?
Well of course not... that's why the US needs to innovate and develop, which is what it used to be good at... after all the US was responsible for the real internal combustion engine development boom.
You need to stop looking backwards and holding yourself back.
Embrace the future become world leaders not a heel dragging laughing stock which you were over the last 4 years.
That actually would Make America Great Again.
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#75
In reply to #74

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 12:24 PM

Good analysis.

Look at the new generation of modular nuclear reactors, such as the one from Nuscale. They are licensed and approved when they are trucked to the site. The grid is also much simplified by putting the reactor close to where it is needed.

Problem solved.

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#76
In reply to #72

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 1:27 PM

Pasted from your earlier post:

..."As president, Biden will lead the world to address the climate emergency and lead through the power of example, by ensuring the U.S. achieves a 100% clean energy economy and net-zero emissions no later than 2050."...

How do you get "100% renewable energy by 2050" from that without making broad assumptions? How do you KNOW there aren't more technologies planned than renewables?

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#77
In reply to #75

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 4:47 PM

I agree with nuclear power as I have said many times in the past, but there has always been a pushback about safety and nuclear waste storage which has been a stumbling block....Now are you saying that is no longer the case? What changed? Now although Biden mentions SMR as a component of his energy plan the last I heard the "green new deal" didn't include nuclear in the mix....so I'm assuming we are not all on the same page here...

https://www.rstreet.org/2019/02/21/what-is-the-green-new-deal/?gclid=CjwKCAiAyc2BBhAaEiwA44-wW1NmT1aaIXpRusUNk9OsTm5FzqVNUtpudIb7SUWXpYNw3DuEEheH8RoCysEQAvD_BwE

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#78
In reply to #76

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 5:03 PM

Read the link I posted, the entire plan is laid out...including a coast to coast high speed rail....I've heard big promises from every politician that has been president, they all promise the sky, and the Moon, but Trump is the only one that delivered...any time a president fails to deliver on promises he made, they always blame congress....I have no doubt that this will continue with a Biden administration...

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 5:37 PM

A majority of Americans didn't think what Trump delivered was what the country needs, hence the lost election. And since a lot of what he did do was without supporting legislation, possibly even illegal, it is likely to be short lived.

And, actually it is always Congresses fault, the president can only execute the laws he is given to work with. If the president fails to deliver on promises it's because congress was not cooperative in delivering legislation supporting them and it is not in the president's power to do anything he wants. It is a failure to deliver but I think in Biden's case it won't be for lack of trying.

Of course congress likes to blame the president for everything it can as well, and it's much easier for them since it's a single person. IMO we put way too much emphasis and power in the presidency when congress controls the purse.

I may yet read the link, I'm interested but there's only so much time in my day.

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#80
In reply to #74

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 5:45 PM

We already innovated our way out of this situation, we have been advocating nuclear energy for at least 30 years it's the liberal left that put a stop to it, they got the legislature to pass so many laws, codes, restrictions, and drove the prices through the ceiling, denied permits, fought safe waste storage...We wouldn't be in the situation we are now if the buildout of nuclear power had continued unfettered....It was the so-called environmentalists that are responsible...Now what are you saying all of a sudden the left has decided that nuclear is good? well it's news to me....If you want to blame somebody, blame the ones that are responsible....We did our job...

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#81
In reply to #77

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 5:57 PM

The pushback on nuclear has been greatly reduced after 20 years of experience with windmills and solar. The nuclear waste issue isn't so important now that the first generation of solar and windmills are coming to the end of their life span and producing huge amounts of waste. The toxic glass from solar collectors and huge fiberglass windmill blades are overwhelming the landfills in many communities. A little nuclear waste is much easier to dispose of.

I am not a Green New Deal expert, but it seems to have a lot of buzzwords and few specifics. I thought that nuclear would fit in there rather nicely - it has no emissions and is renewable.

Your link to RStreet proposes an elegant solution to the problem - let the free market select. If someone wants a particular type of power they can pay for it. I think California has some version of this already

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#82
In reply to #74

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 6:26 PM

You need to stop looking backwards and holding yourself back.

And that's why I am looking forward to fast nuclear reactors, which are even more advanced than the thermal nuclear reactors many are familiar with. Many also need to recognize there is no connection with nuclear weapons except they both utilize nuclear energy--totally different technologies.

The wind and solar people brag about doubling their capacity; however, doubling a little bit is still not very much! Society needs a power source with much more capacity than renewable sources; just one reason the terminology must be transitioned from "renewable" to "zero carbon."

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#83
In reply to #79

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 7:11 PM

The congress and the president, also including the state legislatures, ought to quit being democrats and republicans (politicians!) and become Americans when they are elected.

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#84
In reply to #71

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 7:34 PM

It wasn't just Texas that had power outages...

"Utilities in 14 states are told to start rolling blackouts because of storm strains."

Check out the energy mix of these states....wind a big part of the picture...2nd only to coal...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/15/us/storm-blackouts.html

https://spp.org/

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#85
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/22/2021 8:58 PM

Starting to see a pattern emerging yet?

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#86
In reply to #83

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 3:19 AM

Well said.... same in UK.
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#87

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 12:38 PM
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#88
In reply to #87

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 9:12 PM

5 of 16 members of the ERCOT board resign....lawsuits pending

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/23/ercot-members-resign-texas/

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#89
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Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 10:55 PM

I have no clue? Really? Your curve is only US fossil fuel and doesn't compare the per capita consumption today versus any past reference. Obviously, consumption will go up, because population increases. However, you negate the percentage that renewable energy makes up of the global market today. About 27% of global energy is created through renewable energy today. China currently builds the majority of power generating plants in countries, >25% of that is renewable energy. China's government wants to increase that to at least 30% in 5 years. The Chinese government has begun a program to developed improved and cheaper renewable technology so it can become the dominant global market leader. Fossil fuels are getting less and less of the market share every year. Oh yeah, and the EIA also has data on the US fossil fuel vs renewable markets:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45676

It takes 346.3 Trillion Btus of natural gas to produce 125 thousand MWh of electricity.

It takes 15.2 Trillion Btus of hydroelectric power to produce 143 thousand MWh of electricity.

Alaska, a red state, wants to increase renewable energy to 50% by 2030. Currently they're at 30%.

https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=AK#tabs-1

Costs for building and running renewable is becoming cheaper than fossil fuels:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/12/03/plunging-prices-mean-building-new-renewable-energy-is-cheaper-than-running-existing-coal/?sh=51a9db3431f3

https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2020/Jun/Renewables-Increasingly-Beat-Even-Cheapest-Coal-Competitors-on-Cost

https://meic.org/issues/montana-clean-energy/cost-of-wind-vs-fossil-fuels/

7 of the top 10 in Renewables states are RED states, with that dropped fossil fuel as the primary, due to lower cost, including maintenance of renewable:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/10/26/renewables-and-energy-storage-are-surging-in-red-states/?sh=6e27809f5a69

https://energymonitor.ai/technology/renewables/americas-red-states-lead-wind-and-solar-power-surge

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/daily-on-energy-red-states-lead-the-switch-to-renewables

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#90
In reply to #85

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 11:05 PM

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/total-collapse-wind-solar-germany/

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#91
In reply to #73

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 11:17 PM

The TPPF receives a majority of it's donations from corporations and people in the fossil fuel energy businesses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Public_Policy_Foundation

https://www.texasobserver.org/revealed-the-corporations-and-billionaires-that-fund-the-texas-public-policy-foundation/

https://www.texasobserver.org/revealed-the-corporations-and-billionaires-that-fund-the-texas-public-policy-foundation/

https://www.statesman.com/news/20190614/texas-public-policy-foundation-touts-fossil-fuel-benefits-beyond-texas

https://www.energyandpolicy.org/renewable-energy-state-policy-attacks-report-2015/texas-public-policy-foundation/

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#92
In reply to #72

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 11:19 PM

He does not say renewable energy, he says clean energy. There is a difference. If you want real answers, get them from his website:

https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

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#93
In reply to #67

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/23/2021 11:57 PM

Good question. I don't think anyone would have a good answer. I did look into fast nuclear, but from what I read it's still in developmental stages and can be finicky per the cooling process. The other issue is it's very expensive to build. If they can continue to improve this technology and reduce the cost, I think it's got real potential. They'd also have to find a way to circumvent the fear factor.

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#94
In reply to #61

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 12:05 AM

Older designs are subsidized and, due to costs, many have shut down. As for storage, my point is that not even Texas wants to store it's own waste in it's state.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/10/nuclear-waste-government-rules/

Everywhere you go, this will be political.

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#95
In reply to #62

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 12:14 AM

You're looking at the north side of the roofs. Solar panels are slick and generally warm up, so the snow melts and slides off. Plus, they are at angles relative to ground, not horizontal. Solar panels are also more efficient in cold weather and still produce small amounts of electricity with snow on them.

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#96
In reply to #88

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 12:18 AM

They'll just replace them with other political friends. So, nothing gained. Harris county has the right idea to fix ERCOT:

https://news.yahoo.com/houstons-harris-county-looking-leaving-152747320.html

If they do this, I'm sure other areas will follow.

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#97
In reply to #75

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 12:42 AM

Newer reactors are still in development. I agree, this needs to move forward and as this article points out, stay, at least, with the technology. Otherwise, we'll lose the knowledge.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/us-department-energy-rushes-build-advanced-new-nuclear-reactors

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#98
In reply to #77

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 1:02 AM

The article in the above link is old and does not mention Biden. Why don't you supply the link to Biden's website?

https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

Where he does not say 100% renewable by 2050, but says clean energy economy and net-zero emissions. That's a big difference.

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#99
In reply to #80

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 1:30 AM

Last 30 years the Democrats only controlled the majority congress 4 years (1991-93, 2009-11). Republicans had a lot to do with this too. If your claim is that they didn't, then why didn't they change everything to favor nuclear?

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#100
In reply to #33

Re: There is Absolutely No Reason for This

02/24/2021 1:56 AM

Solar panels generally heat up when the sun comes out. Since the panels are on an angle, dark and slippery, the snow and ice melts fast and slips off. Solar panel manufacturers generally don't recommend cleaning solar panels on residential homes for several reasons, but they do say that if you feel you must, then use a tool that doesn't damage the panels. Also, solar panels still produce small amounts of electricity with snow build up and are more efficient in cold weather.

Wind turbine blades, in the north, are equipped with heaters. When the sensors detect ice, they stop rotating, heat up, the ice falls off and they start back up.

The Texas grid had less than half of the wind turbines fail, the fossil fuel and nuclear had half or more fail. Less than 10% of energy was from wind at the time the storm hit. In Texas, in the winter when energy usage is at it's lowest, they use the time to take down parts of their systems for maintenance, upgrades and repair. This added to the problem. It was poor planning and trying to save money that created this mess. In response to the energy demand, prices soared for many residents, into the thousands. Texas now has a $51 billion problem!

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