A Quick and Easy Explanation of What’s Happening...Because It’s Happening Really Fast

I like the way they represent the decision to sell electric cars is the big car companies choice,, when the choice isn't theirs at all, but is dictated by laws passed by misguided liberal governments...as were the CAFE standards before them...The once free market is no longer free....We are all becoming China...

Wow. You really do hate progress. Everything changes.

There's a big difference between natural evolution of improved products, and forced change by political will...So if they passed laws that dictated that everybody would have to start walking on their hands and people could no longer walk on their feet...this is thought to increase upper body strength and force weight loss, thereby making everybody healthier....what would you say then? Ahhh change is good....?

Its called free market economics. You should brush up on the Federalist papers. I'm talking about the actual writings of the founders not the internet perversion.

As was clearly stated in the aticle the market is responding to customer demand.

Governments are responding to the will of "the people" passing laws that have LARGE majority support.

Both of which are, again, clear and simple examples, of how its supposed to work.

Free Market in action! LoL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

Celebrate!

Also hates the freemarket.

Draconian laws passed in back rooms by elitist do-gooder's, is not the free market...it's the road to ruin...because it's a continuing step on the path to dictatorship and loss of freedom...

..."Hybrids captured 3.2% of the light vehicle market in 2013 but were at 2% in 2019. Plug-in hybrids and all-electrics combined accounted for 2.1% of the light vehicle market in 2019."...

Hybrid sales have declined by almost half over the last 7 years....

Not exactly taking off....haha

Delivery vans represent a very specific market segment and usage profile. What works well for some, may not work well for others. When government rigs the rules to obtain a specific outcome, it is not a free market. Plain and simple. Or at least it should be.

Ha! if there was so much demand, then why are they outlawing ICE vehicles? To force people to buy what they don't want...Electric vehicles have been around for 100 years, nobody wanted them then, and nobody wants them now.. You're swapping gas powered for coal powered vehicles...

US sales of plug-in light duty electric vehicles in 2020 totaled 296,000 units, which was down significantly from the 331,000 in sales in 2019 according to Platts Analytics Future Energy Outlooks' report released Jan.Jan 29, 2021

296,000 electric vehicles out of 14.5 million....

In 2020, the auto industry in the United States sold approximately 14.5 million light vehicle units. This figure includes retail sales of about 3.4 million autos and more than 11 million light truck units.Feb 5, 2021

So there's your demand 2% and dropping...

Wait a minute. How does US laws affect Swedish, British, Indian, German, Chinese, and other non-US automobile makers from making electric cars for non-US markets? We don't. It seems you are missing the subtle point this BBC article is making on what part of the free market is making this change to electric vehicles.

Electric vehicles work by storing electric energy that originates from any original power source, not just a mined petrochemical resource. Electricity converted from wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, tidal, geothermal, petrochemical, biomass and even muscle power can be stored for vehicle use. This will be the future. Presently petrochemical is the cheapest source of energy in most places but it won't be forever. The shrewd (big) automotive companies recognize this and are planning now for the switch.

Would electric cars still be competitive with the heavy thumb of government off the scale?

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml#:~:text=Federal%20Tax%20Credit%20Up%20To,local%20incentives%20may%20also%20apply.

"The average sticker price on an electric car is $19,000 higher than an average gasoline-powered vehicle, so consumers want to know how much of that cost will be recouped in fuel savings over the life of the vehicle."Jul 31, 2020

"A 2018 study from the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute found that electric vehicles cost less than half as much to operate as gas-powered cars. The average cost to operate an EV in the United States is $485 per year, while the average for a gasoline-powered vehicle is $1,117."Apr 22, 2020

That's if you charge exclusively at home....

So if you save 600-700 dollars a year in operating costs, it'll take about 30 years to save $19000.

Well that's better than the solar pv system for your home, which is about 40-50 years...

Not to mention what detrimental impact it causes to the environment to make those PV systems.

The post you reference about the ROI in fuel savings is interesting coincidence. With the administration shutting down the oil pipelines as well as drilling new wells.

Are they artificially trying to close the cost gap between ICE and Electric and then proclaim it’s the sum of free markets?

In less then (6) six months, we went from energy self-sufficient at reasonable price to now a shortage at the gas pumps.

And this is free markets?

And yesterday the administration totally shut down leasing in the ANWR. Not only does that impact the nation as a whole, it devastates Alaska's tax system.

Another baseless conspiracy theory brought to you by SE and Co.

In 2019, U.S. energy production exceeded consumption on an annual basis for the first time since 1957. That's 62 years of effort and finally reaching the goal...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_energy_independence

For some people, electric cars are a good choice. And I am happy for them to have that choice. We hope that all of us are allowed a choice.

Uh Duh. Tesla has been out of tax credits for two years and is still setting records with orders for another 14 months of production at current capacity. why they are simultaneously building four factories. Ya'll need to get out of the 1950's please. You might actually have something to contribute if you weren't being ridiculous about it.

A tax "credit" is not really that big of an incentive. Not the same as the first time home buyer "rebate".

If you don't owe taxes the credit does nothing for you. LOL

Have you checked out the government oil company subsidies lately? I don't see us paying the actual cost of the goods as others in the world do. Now why is that?

Not so fast...that's because they want to raise them....

"U.S. Senate Panel Wants to Raise EV Tax Credit as High as $12,500

GM and Tesla would benefit most, since individual companies wouldn't get credits cut off after a set number of sales."

BY SEBASTIAN BLANCO MAY 27, 2021

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36562867/us-senate-panel-ev-tax-credit-increase/

The tax credits don't benefit the poor who pay no taxes, they benefit the rich elite liberals that buy these cars...the poor just get poorer

WOW, let me check my bank account. I didn't know I had suddenly become a rich liberal just by purchasing an electric car.

Well, crap. Still Middle class.

"Based on data pulled from 2,650 Tesla owners, the average household income of a Tesla Model X owner is $143,177 per year. The average household income of a Tesla Model S owner is $153,313 per year."Aug 6, 2020

https://www.evunite.com/blog/tesla-owner-demographics/

"The 2018 piece from Pew reported that, in 2016, the median income for the upper-income class was $187,872. While for the middle class, it was $78,442, and for the lower class, it was $25,624 (in 2016 dollars; figures reflect a three-person household)."...

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/which-income-class-are-you.aspx

You cherry picker you. LoL

To,lee yourself for being called a cherry picker (normally because they can't defend their own position).. add the numbers of people that fall in the income catagory.

I'm retired and have structured my income to exempt me from paying any taxes at all. So there is zero incentive for me to invest in an EV or even to "solarize" my house.

As far as I'm concerned these "tax credits" are highly discriminatory.

Each situation is different, thanks for pointing that out.

That's the problem with our federal elected officials. They like to do things on a grand scale and rarely investigate potential unintended consequences.

Who knows how many senior retired people like me who are sitting on enough cash/credit to buy EV's but see no incentive to do so.

What did I do? I just bought a 3 wheel motorcycle (ICE) for fun.

The government does have an endgame...

with the IRA’s coming due to be withdrawn, that is a new fresh for of revenue for the government to tax to be spent on government programs...

Social Security Insurance was once not taxed, and now it is,... and will get worse with the name change from Social Security Insurance to Social Security Entitlement.

Of course you're right. I should've written that ideology overcomes all in today's politics. The end justifies the means and damn the unintended consequences.

Now your talking! Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!

I like where your going with this BTW.

I don't like where anything is going today. Here or elsewhere.

Inflation is starting to strike with a vengeance and my pocketbook is feeling the pinch already.

And partisan politics is the primary culprit.

Thank You BSR, you are actually still thinking. Much appreciated. I would have to agree with you on that paying taxes part. Even us Model 3 owners pay taxes. In my case the the credit amounted to 2800.00. No where near the full amount of the credit which then goes POOF. Not exactly a deal maker since the Red Paint was 2500.00. My philosophy, when you are spending money, spend money. I would have bought the car without it as almost a million people have now to date.

Does it amount to a rebate? Yes, but only in the amount of owed taxes. So really it was just getting your withholding back without interest.

Is it enough to effect the purchase of a 50,000 car? Not at all.

Its a strawman.

Change is inevitable.

Change... did someone say change?...

Back when SNL was somewhat funny...

I still see delays due to the current state and working developments of battery technology (including limited resources of exotic materials needed to make said batteries), along with an electrical infrastructure (both generation and transmission, but mostly transmission).

De-centralised power generation with home charging, along with improvements in battery technology to allow many electric vehicle users a full day of charge would help, but you cannot underestimate the cost and complexity of upgrading the existing service station infrastructure to electric fast charging stations and the associated electric grid (including the cost of all the new substations required) to provide power to them.

Change will occur, but technology and cost WILL delay consumer and government adoption expectations. A middle ground compromise will likely be found when expectations are found to be far too high (such as hybrid vehicles for extended range applications and shorter range full electric vehicles and public transport for inner city travel with slow rollout of grid infrastructure upgrades in selected areas to get the most benefit).

Change is inevitable, but so is practicality.

Well said. I have read credible reports that the changeover from ICE to EV will require an electrical grid in the neighborhood of 8 to 10 times the capacity we have today in the US. How long will that generation capacity take to build to support 100% EV.

And that's not to mention a widespread need for charging infrastructure and/or battery swap out stations.

And then there's infrastructure maintenance (think widespread hurricane outrages), battery disposal and a small matter of what kind of power generation facilities need to be built to support a pure EV world. I suspect renewable energy generation will never be able to meet the demand, especially in the non-friendly weather areas of the world.

My purely unscientific prophecy for a successful changeover will require more than 50 years from today and a quantum leap in battery technology, and maybe even widespread localized (neighborhood) nuclear power generation.

JMO. Hooker

Some 276 million vehicles were registered here in 2019. The figures include passenger cars, motorcycles, trucks, buses, and other vehicles. The number of light trucks sold in the U.S. stood at 12 million units in 2019.Feb 8, 2021

If we were selling 100% electric vehicles right now, instead of the reported 2%, at 14.5 million sales per year if everybody that owned an ICE bought nothing but electric and every sale for the next 20 years was a new customer trading in their ICE vehicle for an EV, it would still take 20 years to convert, and that's if no used vehicles were ever sold and every customer kept their EV for 20 years...50 years seems a bit impossible...It would take well over 100 years in my estimation, and nobody can see that far into the future....cars might evolve into clean burning machines, as seems to be happening now....Somebody might come up with a way to manufacture cheap fuel, like hemp to alcohol, that is carbon neutral....anything can happen over time....

..."Sometimes referred to as “hempanol” or “hempoline” this type of fuel is made through a process called cellulolysis which ferments and distills the hemp to extract ethanol. Methanol, on the other hand, is produced from the woody pulp matter in the stalks of plants. Jun 21, 2018"...

https://www.cannabistech.com/articles/driving-toward-a-greener-future-with-hemp-biofuels/

Growing hemp for fuel in the desert made possible by solar powered desalination of sea water....clean, green, carbon neutral...

Tending to agree that the choices were made for us all by a few who are in panic mode and profit mode. Industry people will always find ways to make a profit from something. It is a boom for EV producers, solar and wind providers, all based on the greens policies of looking good and saviours. It is only normal that industry will follow suite to stay in business and be seen to be doing the correct thing.

China is doing well from it as they have now invested into Sweden with a huge plant build to provide the film for EV batteries. The easiest thing to sell is fear and people fall for it every time. Soon the people will complain of all the solar farms and turbines scarring the landscape, as they are doing already in Sweden, so their is really no end to the mess we are making of everything.

Certainly, there is no country that is capable of providing the infrastructure needed to support most European countries going fully electric. The result will only be fewer people buying/owning cars, more people using the bus or train, a deficit in revenue to insurance and road authorities and another expensive cost to everyone.

The freedom of choice is dead and gone. RIP. (Respect Increasing Profits).

For folks who like to disparage conspiracy theories ya'll sure do believe an awful lot of them, especially the ones with no proof. I guess those are the best becuase you can't ever be wrong if you were never right to begin with.

Weird how ya'll can live in that mess. Probably why you're always angry.

Call me.

Not so sure anyone is disparaging conspiracy theories..yet. Behind every conspiracy theory there is truth. But the harsh reality is that the quickness of people is too quick for the world. The overal picture is not western civilisation but the entire world. Many who just don't have an infrastructure of any kind let alone electricity. So the realaity is the western world and Europe all go green, Hallelujah! They have cut CO2 and made millions selling a hoax set up by law makers. Africa keeps burning coal and making fires to cook on, and believe me this is not nonsense, its fact. They have no electricity to charge up cars so they will continue to use petrol and diesel, they have plenty in the ground and plenty refineries to make it. S Africa makes fuels from mined coal. Sasol I and II, massive plants that are actually towns.

India has enough vehicles on roads to make ones head spin. Approximately 253 million vehicles that are mostly diesel and not well maintained. The air pollution is so high in Dehli that the EU and USA would not tolerate the levels they have there. And on these points I certainly know what I am talking about.

So Europe and the west have gone green and have clean air. whoopee day! Oh dear the wind gets up and blows all that pollution across the sea and into your clean air. Now you have a problem. All the kniving and laws have not helped you, so you install embargoes on these countries and sanctions. You still get the bad air. They still get to drive and travel and cook their foods and stay warm in winter while the west and Europe clean up the air again, and they get to have cleaner air at your expense.

That is the side that has not been looked at, so it is all very well diving in to make profits in the first world countries, who are quite lazy and gullible people who are all on edge with touchy feely nonsense. But the stark reality is, the world, not the few countries, are not anywhere ready for, nor near to being ready for EV's and what the west wants. India is streaks ahead in solar panels, solar cooking. Africa is still using fire as they don't have electric and when they do, they cant afford it. But they can always find wood or coal to burn. And trust me, Africa is a huge continent with many people living below the poverty line, its land mass covers 20.4 percent of the earth's total land area. One can put the USA into Africa and loose it and its 3 times bigger than Europe.

There is no conspiracy, just reality, and a square tile is still a square tile on the floor, unless you are looking at it from a corner to corner, then it is in reality a diamond. Look from another perspective. The best way to hold an opinion is to hold an open opinion.

You disagree with him,... that makes you a conspiracy theorist...

Great, I achieved something today.

There is no global climate change conspiracy. There is no deepstate govenment. The market is moving because it is obvious we need to make these changes, even at boardroom level, even at the investor level, which is what this article is about. This isnt being "forced" by govenment mandate (conspiracy theory). This is an organic market based response to the sales success of electric vehicles across ALL markets from class 8 on down making it abundantly clear this is a market we need to get a piece of as any smart businessman would.

The tax incentive for a Tesla purchase ended in December of of 2018. Their sales have only increased since then. Yet another irrational fear revealed for what it is in the face of where the money is moving.

Most of what you say about the developing contries is true, but their emissions are also only a fraction of what the US and China emit so really not a problem let alone any help to stopping what is already well underway. Cars will be burning gas or diesel in developing nations well into the future, I agree. So when the article talks of the adoption of EV's its talking about adoption in the largest markets where the pollution is OBVIOUS or have you forgotten what our air looked like in the 70's? (or in China currently)

Straight up since Africa and India don't have an existing gasoline based infrastructure it might be possible for hydrogen to be pervasive there far quicker than electrics.

Yes, it is irrational fear of change. You can tell its irrational by all the incredibly creative but false reasons folks can invent to not do it.

"Yes, it is irrational fear of change". Fear is the normal default of people and change is not always good for everyone. I think the US learned this with Trump, they are re-changing what he changed, and sit with a country turmoil.

Change is good for those who gain from the change, and change buys food for beggars. The investors like change as it suits their insatiable need for wealth and their marketing hype will drive you to buy their products and ideas.

They may not all be false reasons, they may just be reason that are valid to others and not valid to you, but that does not make them wrong, or attacking, or degrading or useless, it just makes them valid to the holder of that opinion or viewpoint.

So you are now contending that humans are always afraid? That may be true of trumpers but certainly not us advanced homosapiens. Fear is not helpful, discrimination is. Being able to properly recognise and identify a threat BEFORE you become lunch IS NOT a function of fear it is a function of intelligence.

So you contend that holding an ignorant and damaging belief is equal to holding an intelligent one? Now we understand what went wrong and its exactly like what Isaac Asimov said.

YES! Freedom allows you to be dumb. Freedom does NOT make you smart.

Democracy DOES NOT mean your ignorance is equal to my knowledge.

BTW, change is neither good or bad, that is YOUR determination. Change simply is.

I hope that helps clear up some misconceptions for you.

”change is neither good or bad, that is YOUR determination“

And why is it that when someone else’s determination is different than yours, you disparage them as though your determination has a higher value.

I am like Patton, I don't pay for the same ground twice. I don't go backwards no matter how comfortable it is. That is the difference. I look for the lastest and best information I can find, not what agrees with me. I point out the difference. Being told you are wrong is not disparaging anyone, it is doing you a kindness by providing you an opportunity to re evaluate and correct.

Ok, to be fair, I only disparage you my friend, well and SE occasionally when he needs it.

Ya'll have to understand I am in a mood today! We are bringing our teams back on site. All the reagent labs are back to research labs. I got a nice card from Dr. Fauci. And I have extra time to harass you good folks.

BONUS!

For one thing, you’re no Patton,... so try not to be.

As far as the remainder, we already knew that. And from the confession, your value has been exposed... again.

next time defend you talking points instead of being so disparaging to your challengers.

I do use "talking points" thats Fox and CNN and you.

If you have a fact to offer that is pertainent please do so.

Otherwise crawl back in your hole troll.

I already state my facts and referenced you.

from your own post.

1.)

” I only disparage you my friend, well and SE occasionally when he needs it.”

that is false,

you disparage anyone who disagrees with you, and then you try to frame it that you only disparage myself and SE. there are characters here that would cry and call you a liar. That is a FACT.

I’m not that way to call you a liar, because you just a troublemaking jerk that your own post you wrote that reinforces it.. now that I’ll would say is a subjective opinion. Unlike you, I can differentiate between the two. And if you disagree, that’s fine, you can label yourself as a liar... that would be indisputable, referenced from your own posts.

2.) you claim to be like Patton, That is false.

You do not have the intelligence to lead. Patton leads men, not minions.

3.) you claim to use talking points, but those talking points are cherry picked... a claim you use against people that disagree with you.

4.) your title of this post being quick and easy explanation... it is neither, as you’re finding out.

5.) you call me a troll, again disparaging people who use your own words against you makes me a troll.

Here is Webster’s definition of a troll.

Let me reiterate an excerpt from that diffinition:

“ 2 a: to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content…

trolls engage in the most outrageous and offensive behaviors possible—all the better to trollyou with.— Whitney Phillips

b: to act as a troll (see TROLL entry 3 sense 2) on (a forum, site, etc.)…

is also notorious, for trolling message boards on the Internet, posting offensive material he himself has written and then suing anyone who responds in agreement.— Mark Hemingway

c: to harass, criticize, or antagonize (someone) especially by provocatively disparaging or mocking public statements, postings, or acts”

It’s actually up to you, not me to refute it.
Now without you being a jerk (with jerk being subjective) or a liar, your choice, tell me who is the real troll. You are guilty of a, b and c.

The first sign of a weak argument is name calling and ad hominen attacks. And given our last interaction with Red on a different post and some of the stuff you just blathered we can see its obviously all you got.

I see you offering no data refuting the assertions made in the article posted. However I do see an awful lot of strawmen and red herrings. So at this point I am not sure if I'm on a farm or a fishing boat.

When you grow up and learn to stay on topic, stop calling people names just because you were wrong or got mad let me know. I labeled you a troll because you added nothing to the conversation but immedately started BS so I called you on it. Deal with it.

Thanks.

Name calling, I was using your own posts you yourself wrote...

as far as straw mans and red herrings.., again, I was using your own posts you wrote.

as far as you wondering where you actually are,... your posts reflect that and I can’t help you. What I called you was a jerk and even said it’s subjective, but from your own posts it’s more like a liar... but, I’m sticking to my original label of you,

you, yourself refer to yourself like Patton,.. and you showed no evidence of that... on top of that, you don’t even realize how foolish that is.

and as far as trolling, your failed to recognize your own name calling. and along with adding to the conversation, I have given you the definition of troll where your own posts checked off all the criteria’s, and that’s what really bothers you and I understand.

"This isn't being "forced" by government mandate (conspiracy theory)."....ooops I guess it is....

"New York will join the list of states signaling an end to new gas vehicle sales, as a bill banning their sale after 2035 has advanced through the state legislature. It now heads to Governor Andrew Cuomo’s desk where it is expected to be signed.

This bill makes New York State the second US state to pass a gas car ban legislatively, behind Washington State, which set a 2030 target. California and Massachusetts have also set 2035 targets for the end of gas car sales, though those states made their commitments through executive action by their respective governors, Gavin Newsom (D) and Charlie Baker (R).

The New York bill passed the Assembly by a vote of 110-40 with all Democrats and three Republicans voting in favor, and passed the Senate in a party-line 44-18 vote. Democrats have a greater than two-thirds majority in both houses in New York, so while this bill has not yet been signed by the governor, there is little chance that it won’t become law."...

https://electrek.co/2021/04/27/new-york-state-2035-gas-car-ban-passes-through-legislature-onto-cuomo/

Is this 'cherry picking' too...? The Democratic legislators seek to outlaw gas vehicle sales by laws passed exclusively by Democrats, ignoring the majority of people in this country...Someday you will be arrested for owning a gas powered vehicle....that's tyranny plain and simple...

NO.

Thats called democracy.

Check the election results and see the majority support these measures, which is OF COURSE the point of the article you wish to distract from. (because you are wrong and have a really hard time admitting it) Your casting around, grasping at straws led you to make a comical error. The "average American" does not buy Lincolns or Cadillacs but that is what you decided to cherry pick. Now if you had been sincere you would have pulled figures for Chevy Bolts, Nissan Leafs, Ford Cmax's. But you didn't because you knew what those numbers would show.

Or you could have pulled it from Europe or China.

Dude, you are transparent.

Democracy... yes, but not a Constitutional Republic.

If you weren’t so disparaging against people that disagree with you, you may even learn something of the country you live in. i point out to the 3rd paragraph.

”Tyranny of Democracy is not an idle statement. 51.1 percent may force it’s will on 49.9 percent in a Democracy! This is on display in the House of Representative’s current impeachment dealings, which are controlled by a Democratic majority.”

Could you cite your references, please?

Feel free to pick your favorite.

new york state congressional election - Bing

No thanks. I don't work for you.

I'd rather see what you cherrypick and then respond.

Ok, bad form.

I was hoping for something better from you.

Dude try something other than gradeschool logic traps. Gees. Pick your own numbers. Don't let others tell you what to do. LOL

You want to parse election results to see if my statement is wrong be my guest. Of course we all know what they will show.

1. The people were elected by majority vote.

2. And who elected them?

3. We The People of course.

4. And why did we elect them?

5. Becasue of the platform they ran on.

This is what happens when you take civics out of school curriculum.

your comment of;

1. The people were elected by majority vote.

2. And who elected them?

3. We The People of course.

4. And why did we elect them?

that is false,... again

The president is elected by the electoral college... and not the popular vote... talking as though you know, doesn’t make it so. Again, the United States of America is a Constitution Republic and not a democracy... look it up

One more thing, have you notice, this thread of for a quick and easy explanation of What’s Happening, is not quick nor easy.

This is understandable when you keep yourself in a room where people agree with each other. And when you leave that room, you get upset when your comments are challenged.

The only comeback you have to defend yourself is Red Herring and Strawman.

You poor, ignorant fools.

Send the pigeons back to the roost and disappear into your alternate reality.

That’s the nicest thing you ever said about people who disagree with you... I’m emotional touched... I’m hoping it’s just a passing thought for me.