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What is it?

02/28/2022 7:14 AM

These were found while emptying out a house. No details on the small container as it was a reused box from another product, no markings except the B on the top side of the brass threaded metal fastener.

Yes, I could've done a google image search but what fun would that be? A community of engineers seems like it would be more fun and enlightening than google

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#1

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 7:31 AM

A: an eBay opportunity (not an endorsement)?

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#2

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 10:55 AM

It looks like some kind of glow plug, but I don't see how it could be energized.

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#3

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 11:34 AM

It looks like those are expansion bolts and that they work with the other parts found in that blue box. I suspect the bolts hold something temporarily while other work is performed but what gets held and onto what baffles me.

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#4

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 11:40 AM

Looks like some sort of pressure operated valve, at least a part of it...

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#5

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 11:44 AM

Any clues amongst the other parts in the box?

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#6

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 12:10 PM

How about a few more hints?

It looks like the body is made from stamped sheet metal. Is that correct?

You have two cylindrical items being held in place. One is hollow and seems to act like a holder. The other is solid and seems to act like a rod or post. Are they rubber, carbon, anything else you can identify?

Do the rectangular parts seem to be made from the same material as the round parts?

Do the rectangular black parts seem like they fit in the rectangular slots in the gray "channel parts"?

Does the finish on the part look like military green?

Is there anything helpful written/painted on the box?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 1:29 PM

How about a few more hints? I will describe the best I can below

It looks like the body is made from stamped sheet metal. Is that correct? The body of the threaded piece appears to be a stamped brass piece, I will refer to it as the "shell" for lack of a better term. The assembly has the shell, in the bottom there is a small spring, then the finger holders which retain the black material. The black material looks like graphite although when rubbed left no residue.

You have two cylindrical items being held in place. One is hollow and seems to act like a holder. The other is solid and seems to act like a rod or post. Are they rubber, carbon, anything else you can identify? The black material looks like graphite although when rubbed left no residue which leads me to believe it is not carbon or graphite but I am no expert in either of these.

Do the rectangular parts seem to be made from the same material as the round parts? Yes, they appear to be. In stick form the black material has a granular texture. They are roughly 3x9x30mm, I didn't measure just estimating.

Do the rectangular black parts seem like they fit in the rectangular slots in the gray "channel parts"? No they do not fit.

Does the finish on the part look like military green? The color is more of an old brass look.

Is there anything helpful written/painted on the box? There were no lables on the box.

While showing the pictures around work and talking through it the consensus is it looks like an ignitor of some sort.

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#8

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 5:39 PM

Well, this is fun!

Is the black bit magnetic?

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#9

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 11:01 PM

They look like carbon electrode holders for an arc lamp, but I really don’t know why I said this. I have only ever worked with arc lamps for testing paper color fastness, and that equipment was ancient in 1985, and I don’t think the carbon element holders looked like that. These do look very familiar for some reason.

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#10

Re: What is it?

02/28/2022 11:15 PM

I was thinking electrode holders and electrodes and the "B" part is the terminal lug holding the spring and pushing the carbon block down the ceramic channels that seem to be there.

I was thinking brushes for some motor or reactor or generator, but it could be an arc lamp or something like that.

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#11

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 1:00 AM

I think they are oil pan plugs for automotive or farm use with magnets for collecting iron fragments.

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#12

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 4:29 AM

A brush holder without the springs that push the brush into the armature.

See the brushes and the loose spring?

This was probably a small appliance parts box for drills,grinders,mixers,etc.

The used to have an assortment of these at the local hardware store.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 4:49 AM

Here is a whole page of different brush holders.

https://store.eurtonelectric.com/brushholders.aspx

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 6:13 AM

If they are brushes then they are all really worn out or someone has inserted lots the wrong way round:-

Shouldn't the fingers engage with the shoulder so that the contact end can extend beyond the fingers? Or am I missing something?

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 6:28 AM

Rednek,

You might be onto something. Electric motor brushes was our first guess also based on the white-ish ceramic holders and the springs to maintain friction that go in the brass fitting, but none of us had ever seen this type before. There was nothing else in the house to indicate the pervious occupant had been rebuilding motors, but this small box may have been overlooked while moving.

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#16

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 7:14 AM

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 9:05 AM

The brush holder is shown without the internal spring that pushes the brush further out and maintains contact with the armature.Did you notice the spring in the photo? and the additional rectangular brushes for other applications? The old (1960's70's) Kirby vacuum cleaners used a similar brush,and some drills.The fingers maintain contact when the brush wears down and allows for some irregularities on the armature.

Notice the other type brush holders and brushes?Notice the whole spring to the right of the holder,and the spring inside of the holder,and the empty holder?

Most modern DC or Universal motors use a integrated brush/holder assembly not meant to be repaired.

We have become a throw away species...the problem is,there is no "AWAY."

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#18
In reply to #14

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 9:17 AM

The small end goes inside the holder.The spring seats around the small end,inside of the holder.Someone that didn't have a clue,or a kid, probably had been messing around with the kit and got things all mixed up. The contact end label in the photo is incorrect.It is the spring end.

Notice a concave surface on the carbon?That is the curvature of the armature that it seats against.

And yes,the brush does look worn out.Probably swapped out the complete holder and brush to save time and make extra $.

These were probably to be rebuilt in the shop They do not come when new with the proper radius,it must be done in the shop.They must be formed using flint paper(never emery cloth..emory cloth residue will short out the armature).

Even after this,the brush should be seated using a seating tool.

Here is a link to a tool,but there are many types available.

https://store.eurtonelectric.com/brushseaterhandles2000-cs.aspxhttps://store.eurtonelectric.com/brushseaterhandles2000-cs.aspx

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#19

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 9:41 AM

Local elctrical motor shop person happened to be here today and I showed him the pictures. He confirmed that they are indeed brushes for a motor, he would try and figure out what they went to more specifically when he has time.

Thanks all!

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 9:49 AM

Very similar to those found in an old kitchen aid stand mixer.

Could even be a commercial institutional size mixer.

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 10:41 AM

What I'm trying to understand is how the armature makes contact with the brush with the ends of the fingers in the way?

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 1:42 PM

The brush is longer than the fingers,and is normally pressed into contact with the armature by the spring which is ,at the top of the brass housing,pressing it out.

The fingers provide good electrical contact with the brush as it wears.The brush holder case is connected electrically to the voltage source.As the brush wears down,it becomes shorter till the point when contact is intermittent,and arcing of the armature begins.Sometimes this is severe enough to require resurfacing and undercutting the armature.

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#23
In reply to #13

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 7:37 PM

I went to the website but didn't see any brush holders like these. In fact i have never seen circular brushes.

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#24
In reply to #18

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 7:39 PM

i went to the website to look at these tools but they look like they are meant to dress the commutator, not to radius the brush.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 9:53 PM

Refer to my post #18.They are curved to shape of the armature by using flint paper,the tool is indeed for refinishing a slightly worn armature and for fine tuning after an armature resurfacing if it is arcing.This has to be done with the motor running,and is applied until the arcing stops.There are different grits and mediums and shapes and sizes available for this purpose.Some look like a stick of chalk,others like hard leather with fine abrasive embedded into it.Just depends on the application.

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#26
In reply to #23

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 10:10 PM

These are SIMILAR brush holders.The ones pictured in the OP are probably not in production anymore.

I have rebuilt many small motors over the years,and have seen many circular brushes,usually in drills,etc.Modern manufacturing makes it easier to buy a brush/holder combination as an assembly that to make brushes easily replaceable.

Plenty of round brushes on this link:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=round+tubular+carbon+motor+brushes&t=newext&atb=v313-1bc&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fsc01.alicdn.com%2Fkf%2FHTB1J9ZwHFXXXXaRXFXXq6xXFXXXa%2F201293231%2FHTB1J9ZwHFXXXXaRXFXXq6xXFXXXa.jpg

This is a brush similar to the one in the original post,with spring,but not worn out.

The brush holder in the OP is probably obsolete,due to cost of the brass in it.

They now make the holders and caps from Bakelite or other plastic.

The brush with lead does not rely on the fingers for electrical contact,current is carried by the lead itself.Much cheaper to make.

Here is an image of a modern version brush holder:(of course,it is not round,but you get the idea)

And here is what the OP brush may have looked like before being worn out.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: What is it?

03/01/2022 11:27 PM

They look like the old brush holders used on early DC generators from before WW1 though the brushes were longer. No size fot the brush is given so could be from early floor polishers.

Yes Hitek is right about the brush seating to the commutator. I used to do the same thing on dragline generators. Glass or garnet paper is pulled between the brush and the commutator while the brush is held under the spring tension.

Maybe a bit of a divergence away to discuss the commutator surfacing. Firstly a set of brushes are removed and then a toolpost is bolted to the generator frame and a diamond tip tool is mounted in the toolpost. The unit looks like the top of a lathe tool post.

The sync motor is started with generator excitation off and there you have a 3000HP plus motor spinning the generator armature at 3000 RPM. Light cuts are taken while all the safety gear is worn including a chook hat, the orange full head cover that welders use for the chips coming off are red hot. The idea is to remove any out of roundness and make the surface parallel to the generator axis.

When it is done the mica between the commutator bars is ground out with an air powered diamond wheel, tedious but necessary. The edge of the bars are then chamfered with a modified lathe tool or a special tool, user preference. I found a left and right chamfer tool made from SS spatular to my liking, always taking light cuts.

Last job is to seat the brushes with garnet paper until a majority of the brush contacts the commutator. Then as a final act of bravado while the generator is back running a commutator dressing stone is used sparingly for a heavy hand now can produce an out of roundness or flat spot. This would be done if excessive sparking was observed and had to be completed in the 10 hour maint day downtime.

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#28

Re: What is it?

03/02/2022 1:50 AM

depleted carbon arc stick holders.

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#29
In reply to #22

Re: What is it?

03/02/2022 6:14 AM

Thanks! Now I get it.

What confused me was all these units with the brush held below the "knuckle" of the fingers.