Life and milage of Honda Civic

LOL Good advice...to a person who would not have asked here if s/he was able either to appreciate or to follow it. You could have given a KISS, too.

UG

I did not mean to complicate the question with my reply so I'll provide a short version.

When considering whether a deal is "good" take into account operating and maintenance costs in addition to purchase price. Someone could offer you a free car. This seems like a good deal. But later you learn that parts are not available and after a short time the car cannot be driven. In this example, what seemed like a good deal initially based on zero cost turns out to be the poorest possible choice.

I am not implying that this particular purchase is likely to be as such. Just that the operating costs should be considered as well as selling price.

two or three things you can do on the spot without going to a lot of trouble that will tell you whether the car is a creampuff (only driven to church on Sundays by a little old lady) or has three tires in the grave (taxi):

Was it traded in for a new car of the same brand? An Audi being sold used on a Chevy lot makes me suspicious.

Look under the car for a wet oil spot. If there's a spot, check to see if it was formed from a leak in this car (there could have been an Audi parked there for a week until ten minutes ago).

Pull dip stick and smell oil. Even new oil will smell burnt if the car was abused.

Push down hard (with your full weight) on all four corners of the car. It should go back up and then level out where it was before you pressed it. If it cycles more than once before stopping you need new struts and shocks--don't buy unless the person selling will deduct the price of that from the price of the car.

Ask to see any repair receipts in the seller's possession. If the car is around 50-60,000 miles, he should be able to prove that the water pump and timing belt have been replaced. Replacing these two things is a ridiculously expensive repair, in this Scotsman's view, and I'd only buy the car if the seller will deduct this from the price.

Run air conditioner full blast with doors open for fifteen minutes or so. Air should be icy. Find the liquid line coming off the condenser coil. It should feel a little warm. If it's hot, you need freon at the very least. Listen to the compressor running. Clatter in the valves means there's too much freon in the system, which is so destructive, the seller should deduct the cost of compressor replacement from the price. If the air coming out of the vents smells like tobacco smoke, it will always smell that way. You either get used to it or you'll be bothered by it for years. Water should be dripping out of the condensate well underneath. Get some on your finger. This water is supposed to be essentially distilled, so it should be clear and smell like water. Do not use this water in situations that call for distilled water.

Tires--penny test. If it fails, deduct cost of new set.

Check trunk and engine compartment for random wrinkles and odd paint job (like a different shade of primer or paint) that indicate body work. Personally, I wouldn't even buy a car with this defect. The list of problems associated with this is nearly endless.

xenon headlights--can you afford to replace them with xenon if necessary?

driver's seat condition--check stitches. Particularly if it's leather, replacement will cost dearly.

incidental stuff--is the car clean? do all bulbs light? what looks worn-out? what's the condition of the seat belts? examine fit and finish carefully. The paint shouldn't be scratched or dinged, of course, but if there's a scratch, does it look like the owner painted it over--or has it been allowed to stay there and rust?

General rule of thumb--offer about two thirds of the blue book value. That's a nice starting place to find out how hard it will be to talk the guy down. Be willing to negotiate repairs (by a third party) for a higher price. If it's a place that refuses to negotiate price, bargain with the manager rather than the salesman. Point out the flaws and convince him that the non-negotiable price was set too high. If they won't bargain in good faith, walk out. They'll call you in a day or so and probably they will have adjusted the price. If not, hang up on them.

You have the rest of your life to be a nice guy--and you'll be a nicer guy if you have more money in your pocket--so be an absolute jerk to the seller of the car. There is no purpose served by becoming buddies. Don't laugh at his jokes. Don't smile. Remember that when the salesman leaves, he has left his intercom on (at the very least--nowadays they may also have a video camera on you) and he and his boss are listening to what you and your spouse are saying. My wife wanted to talk about the car in the salesman's absence and I explained that the salesman and manager were listening to us and if she really wanted to discuss something about the car, we could go out on the lot and talk. Or, you could work out ahead of time what to talk about--both agreeing that you're doing the salesman and lot a big favor because times are tight in the auto industry. 60 minutes revealed this trick, so I'm not just being paranoid. One time, we had a salesman who had a lot of trouble controlling his body--his arms shook and his hands kept balling up into fists. When the salesman left, I asked my wife, who is a nurse if she thought that was incipient Parkinsonism--and if it was, should we urge the guy to get to a neurologist? A few minutes later, the salesman returned and--even though we never mentioned it to him--explained that his odd body movements were the result of a car accident.

I hate picky eriew but Honda's are one of the most reliable cars on the road.

There 4 cylinder VTEC engine is also very reliable.

As to whether its a good deal i wouldn't know as i live in the UK but what I would say is that if i could afford a Honda I would buy it as they don't keep going and don't tend to break down.

If it runs good and looks good and smells good, buy it. It is a Honda.

But I live in So Cal, so all Hondas run great.

Toyota is great too.

Mike

What would the gender of the car's prospective buyer be? Inexperienced at car buying? Female? or both? Over or under 25 years old? 35 years old?

Well, Gentlemen (and Lady?), it seems evident that the original posting guest has long since either made the purchase or lost the chance. So the best we can do is wish her well. Too bad she we could not have given her pointers about how to find and buy a used car--and how to seek car buying advise more effectively.

I drive a '91 civic with almost 250,000 miles on it. I bought it at about 120,000 miles.

At 200,000 I had to rebuild the transmission because the bearings were starting to rattle (manual tranny). Did it myself took about 16 hours total.

At 210,000 I blew my head gasket when my thermostat failed and the engine overheated. Because I had to pull the cylinder head anyway I decided to rebuild the bottom end of the engine. I replaced the rings and main bearings, just because I had the engine open, but at 210,000miles the cylinder walls and bearing surfaces still measured to within, new part specifications. Basically my high mileage engine was still practically brand new on the inside.

Now that I've had the bottom end and cylinder head rebuilt, I get just over 40 mpg (highway) in the summer, a little less in the winter.

So yeah. There is a reason Hondas have such a high KBB/NADA value. If the car appears to be in good shape then buy it. Don't forget call your local police (before cash changes hands) to make sure that the vehicle has a clean title.

THIRTEEN POINT NINE K Canadian $$$$ - surely you jest. Brand NEW civics in the US typically sell in the 17 to 18K US$ range - and with the US/CAN exchange rates being pretty much equal ( in fact the CAN$ has been worth a little more than the US$ recently) this has to be one of the worst " deals " I have heard of recently. Check out Consumer Reports Magazine - they recently tested a slew of high mileage gas savers and actually rated a Hyundai as a recommended buy above Honda. If memory serves me it sells in the 14K$US range. Good luck in your quest for a new ride. Buy new - don't inherit someone else's problems. Ed - the CoGen Man.

My daughter was given one by a friend who was transferring from Washington, DC to Guam, Marianas Islands, with 115,000 miles on it. It needed a timing belt (No DUH, it must have been running on threads!) but it didn't break down on her until it had nearly 200,000 on it (and when it did, it may well have been due to a dry crankcase. By the time she caught it, it was so far gone the cause was a chicken or the egg question). I'm on my third Honda, of which the first was a Civic, which I broke at about 136,000. My second Honda, though, was an Accord, which I totalled. The one I have now is an Accord, with only 65,000 on it, and I don't do anything but change the oil, and have it looked at by my mechanic regularly. It runs about 400 Miles round trip every second weekend, to my grandkids in PA, at an average speed of 65 mph, even climbing over a 4300 foot tall mountain, and through 23 mile long range of smaller mountains, with my wife and I, occasionally a third and even a fourth person, and enough luggage for us all for three days. So the total payload with all of us has to run in the 1,000 pound range. I don't know how to tell when it's in it's prime, but I look for Honda's to replace what I have when I break one. And I don't expect to replace this one until it has at least 150,000 on it, assuming I don't bash it. Oh, BTW, my current one is an 01. The previous one was a 95, and the earliest I had was a 92. My daughter's, which died about 2 years ago, was an 88, if I remember right. I like Civics, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to someone who travels light, and mostly alone, or mostly around town. And my son's does him fine for exactly that. He has an 05 Accord SE. Most Civic models are just a little underpowered for my kind of driving and loading of them. So I choose Accords. But both are Hondas, and both get my vote.

Mike

Hi,

I have owned civics for the last 12 years. You will not get a more realiable car. You will not get a faster (naturally aspirated), better handling small hatchback either (VW Golf GTI driver will disagree- but they are WRONG) - Great fun to drive

There are more types of engine variants for the civic than you can shake a stick at (all good). You can be disappointed with the power output of the smaller engines.

They do a great 4 cylinder 16v twin overhead cam that has variable valve timing. It is found in the VTI (160bhp) and Type - R(200bhp+) engines (Europe). These are small capacity engines that get 40mpg (US). They redline at about 8000rpm. You get (VTI engine naturally aspirated) 160bhp at 7500rpm - all that from a 1.6liter engine - great fun.

variable valve timing in now found in a few other cars but Honda were the first - First car with over 100bhp per liter. Each valve has 2 cam lobes - Hydraulically selected. One is used for 0 - 5500rpm and the other is for 5500-8000rpm. Feels like a turbo kicking in.

Small, Powerful, Clever little engines - keep them serviced if you drive hard and they will last for ever.

By the way - Honda's have not rusted for years - no good car has.

Regards

J

J

The guest seeking Honda advice appears to have left and closed the case. No further testimonials needed.

I think with Honda (and Toyota) vehicles it's worth taking a look at buying new. It appears depreciation on a Civic is almost linear. The advantage with new is the warranty and "you" know the vehicle history. Now that CAD and USD are almost 1 to 1, your paying nearly $14,000 for a car with 45,000 miles you could buy new for $15,000. I'm not sure if cars are priced the same in your market.

As for reliability, that car will last forever. IMO, the Japanese have the best gasoline ignition systems in the industry, note the 100,000 mile tune up intervals. Many other cars eat spark plugs every 30k miles, and if you don't replace them the increased gap with increase resistance leading to premature coil failure. The only serious issues I've heard of on Civics is with a very rare heater core failure. I think it's a result of improperly purging the coolant system of air. Unlike most cars it must be purged from a valve up top, not through the filler cap.

With any other car, used is the way to go. I just picked up an '04 Saab 9-3 ARC for $10k (USD). It had a sticker price of $34k (USD) new.

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for all the advise and I'm for sure going to take what you said into consideration.

Is it possible to buy extended warranty on an older car? and how does that work?

Ms. Guest,

I have deduced that this is your first buying experience...so it's been interesting to see how your questions have evolved. Before talking about repair insurance, may I suggest a few ways of looking at the car buying endeavor. My comments are predicated on what seems to be your disdain for dealing with vehicle mechanical problems that might come up...you do not want to be bothered with repairs and breakdowns...and to the degree you cannot purchase a car with warranty you hope to purchase the warranty with the expectation that will cover you for all things.

As to the purchase itself, here's what I recommend:

First, understand that (for those of typical financial means) online investigations only supplement, but do not replace the legwork entailed in purchasing a used vehicle...or new vehicle for that matter.

So, Step 1 is to decide what is your price limit...both cash price and financed cost (i.e., total of price and finance charges) will be, and work within that, not within what someone else is asking for some car.

One you decide that, then is the time to begin looking for the best car within your ability to pay.

Understand that you are not likely to get the best price on Europe and Japan imports (non-American) cars...so that in order to have an import at the same price, the import might be older year model and/or more miles...or worse condition.

Also, be aware that by restricting yourself to only one or two brands, you will be limiting the cars available to you for purchase...and losing a chance at some very good cars as well.

Remember that cars are disposable commodities...they wear out and must be replaced. So you should try to estimate the duration (years and mileage) you will need the car to serve its purpose reliably before you are ready for the next car purchase. Try to be realistic...look for a car with good service/reliabilty records for, say, the first 100 to 150 thousand miles, rather than a car that might last for, say, 150 to 300 thousand miles. (There are numberous hardcopy/online sources: consumers union (consumer reports), edmunds, etc) Also remember that mileage is relative: 50,000 on a two year car would be high, but 100,000 on a ten year old car would be moderate or even low.

Your best bet will be to cast you net locally, not across continents or continent. The most obvious reason being the possiblity that something goes wrong with the car or with the deal. If you purchase at long distance, you could wind up being stuck.

Try to enlist the assistance of others (of male persuasion) to help you evaluate cars you look at. Such helpers will probably seem silly and unsure of themselves at times, but it is more likely you will be tipped off to potential problems...before you give up your money.

Usually the best used car value can be had from individual owners selling low mileage cars--the best are people that buy new ever year or two. You will be able to meet and observe the owner directly...and through questioning make a good appraisal of how the car has been used and maintained. Your objective would be to negotiate a price above wholesale but below retail...but you will be paying far less than you would for the same car from a (new car) dealership. Consider only cars bought new by the selling party. And always ask if the seller is a dealer...dealer often pose as individual sellers in order to lure in smart customers...they also pose as individual buyers in order to buy the best cars at snooker prices from unsuspecting sellers and then resell them on dealer lots.

Purchasing from dealerships or their online equivalents, you will be able to buy with a warranty, but you will pay much more (or buy much less car) than with private transactions as per above. The one advantage (sometimes) a dealership has over individual sellers is the ability to finance the transaction...allowing purchase of later model or lower mileage car. (But remember, you [maybe] can finance any purchase, from any party, through your own credit sources (bank, credit union...but never a credit card).

Small used car lots (so called floorplan dealers) should, with occasional exception, be avoided.

Do not be surprised, or unwilling, for a car hunt and purchase (even a new car purchase) to last as long as two or three months...which is not to say you might not find one in a matter of days or weeks. The idea is that you must determine to buy what satisfies you, and not what satisfies a seller or anyone else...so hang tough if necessary.

Be sure to know what the warranty entails and what it doesn't. And be aware of the different types of warranties...and that ultimately all warranties are designed to protect the seller, not the buyer. The two broad warranty caterories are "unconditional" and "limited." Limited warranties are those people (including dealers) are referring to when they speak of warranties; these are the manufacturer warranties...and are transferable from owner to owner while they remain in force. So always ask how much residual warranty remains, if any, when purchasing a used vehicle.

The unconditional warranty (or store warranty) is something people often overlook; or fail to ask about or demand. For example, what happens if you change your mind after purchasing from a brick and morter, or virual dealership? How long do you have to change your mind? Do you get a refund, or exhange for another car? How many exchanges can you make before getting cash refund...or being stuck? If private seller (and seller has received near is high asking price), it never hurts to ask for (to negotiate) an unconditional warranty, for example: If "this car" needs major repair within, say, two weeks, who pays? Seller, or buyer? Or both? And how much? And, perhaps, what is the repair cost above which seller agrees to buy back the car, no further questions asked.

Now about those vehicle repair insurance policies...the so called "warranty extension" or "extended repair" programs. Generally, although they might give some (false) comfort, they are not good investments...but, rather, not much different from (and usually riskier than) a high limit bet placed at a casino...the house always wins (or the house does not take the bet). You might be motivated to buy a high mileage or older car (an out of warranty car, say) with the hope or expectation that an aftermarket "warranty" product will take care of you. Instead you should think, that the more likely a repair is to be needed (for an aging car), the less likely is will be covered, or the more you will pay for coverage...if you are even able to buy the coverage. On top of that, even if you are lucky and a claim is paid, it is likely that the coverage provider did not pay all of the claim! Since the implicit warranty on major car systems is held to be 100K miles (irrespective of any written warranty), then the car manufacturer and the repair insurance provider will end up splitting the repair costs! That is, the car manufacturer will pay a portion of the repair you could have extracted yourself, without paying a third party extended warranty seller. (Your plan fee will be based both what the the plan carrier pays and on what the manufacturer pays, not just on what the plan provider pays. Not a good bet.) So an alternative approach other than buying dubious warranty products is to self insure against inevitable future breakdowns. As you use the car, set aside money incrementally into your own "repair" fund...one that draws interest for you, not for an unknown, third-party high-cost insurance peddler. If you need to use the money after accumulating miles on the car, you have it. And, to the degree you don't need to use the fund, you have the money for buying, or substantial down payment, on the next car! Smart! Not fooled! In control of your own game.

Is it possible for you guys to give me links from the states so that i can check out used or even brand new cars.

I wouldn't mind taking a trip down to the states to grab a civic or corolla.

With the prices ranges you guys have been informing my about, getting a decent vehicle from the states and at the current exchange rates, i think it would be quite worth it.

so ye, if you know of any auto trading car links from the states, please pass it on to me

well appreciated guys

Check with Customs first. There might be a duty that would wipe out any savings.

Plus you would either have to pay shipping, or

Pay tax and registration state-side; drive take it home; and then pay tax and registration again, dominion-side.

Go here: http://www.cars.com/go/kbb/kbbInput.jsp

and look it up.

I can't speak for Civic, but I certainly will speak for Accord. I bought an '83 Accord in Jan 1986 with 50,000 miles on it. I drove it for over 20 years and put almost 200,000 miles on it. It got typically 35 mpg. At around 220,000, it was beginning to nickel and dime me to death so I donated it to Kidney Kars... I never once needed to dig into the engine or tranny beyond normal maintenance... other than a valve cover gasket at about 200,000. That was the deepest I went... and a timing belt at around 125,000. (shop manual called for changing at 75,000 miles).

I don't know about price, but I certainly will vouch for Honda quality.

Bill

Buy It!

I purchased my 1998 Honda Civic with 138,000 km on it. 6 years and 200,000 km later I've only changed oil, and timing belt (twice). These cars are incredible.

You must make an effort to stay ahead of the rust.

I can't see this car ever falling apart.

How worthit is it to get an Acura csx to a loaded honda civic?? and both cars are 2006+

Like from what i've seen, they look like the same car but just different logo and some different features and honda makes both of them.

i saw a 2006 csx for sale, and it was 20,000 canadian dollars. is that a good price?

and also, are the engine as reliable as for the civic??

i want full detail for Honda car