Photo Challenge: What is This Machinist Doing?

"Eddy is the shop supervisor, as well as an adviser to students at the Calhoun County Career Center"

God help them ...

According to the article, Julie Edie is the person in the picture beating the bejesus out of the mill spindle. She doesn't look like a "she". If I were her boss, I would fire her on the spot.

What about this one for the Caption This blog?

I few things I like to say, from what I can see from the picture.

well I managed and worked in a router shop in a shipyard where we had BT50 (there are other size as well as types also)flanged tool holders that holds the tooling bits........

The problem may have started prior or have been the cause by inexperience and it only has to happen once.

When changing flanged tool holders, when removed from new on.... ALWAYS, wipe out the flange outside were it contacts the holders, and when clean out the holder that holds the flange before installing the flange.

You have to do this to remove any contaminants from each so you get a solid seat between the holder and the BT-flange. If you don't do this and you don't have a solid seat, cause even by dust particles, what happens the tool it it would vibrate and cause fretting (Micro welds) to the flange as well as the holder.

Fretting is basically micro welds, and when this happens it marrs the flange as well as the tool holder, and create a rougher surface and the tool holder will pass it on to other flanges as well as the flange will pass it onto other tool holders, and spread like a virus.

Of which the only way to release the flange from the tool holder is to tap the flange collar to break the micro welds., and it gets progressively worse, if not address, and addressing it you only slow down the cause.

Hows the term.......S#it happends.

Things like this can happen....even from experience machinist, because you only have to forget once for what ever reason, bad day, rushed, being ill, ect. But once it happens you have to try to isolate the problems holders and tools, as well as recondition the flanges at time.

The solution, not always the right thing to do, is throw out the problem flange and replace both the flange and holders.

Problem is the photog, She felt she need an action picture, given the choice of seeing the female machinist swing a hammer, or be sitting and monitoring the CNC machine.

Guess which one she chose.

Plus that photo was set-up, because she's doing it wrong,...........put your hand on the flange don't let it drop with the bit.

One more thing.....you go to some of the backwoods shops and you would be surprise how they get things done. It's like a bunch of clowns, working on thier clown car. And they are all males. It's surprising that these shops would even have CNC equiment. But it does'nt have to be a CNC for fretting to occur, just sloppyness practices.

phoenix911

With those baseball caps everyone looks the same.

Yikes indeed. The article is awful. Is she really suggesting that skilled tradeswomen need to wear a push-up bra to get a job? I don't find it believable, looking at the photo - which is as far from feminine as you can get. I honestly can't tell if that picture is a man or a woman. Pretty gender neutral on the job there.

The whole thing makes me think of one-liners that I wouldn't say in a job interview, starting with "I can change a bit with a hammer".

I honestly can't tell if that picture is a man or a woman.

Oh, Thats Pat, our new machinst...........I had to look twice also......and once was more than enough.

Is she really suggesting that skilled tradeswomen need to wear a push-up bra to get a job?

And breast does'nt its female........Last week I saw a 300 + lb .... 20 yo boy/man running in a parking lot......he really should have been wearing a man bra.

At the shipyard doing naval contracts, where alot of the work we did was R&D. we were using the tool for what it was not even though of using it for because no other tool existed.....pushing the tool at and over limits.

The manufacture of the CNC center actually used us for taking tours as a demo for the versatility of the machine

Yes, can be very unsafe if your a green horn,,,,and can be even if your not.

We had crashed the head.....due to programing era. Same thing happened only a bigger bend., And we repaired it the same as you until a new shaft arrived....actually in (2) days. We then keep one in stock.

I have to say that until you seen and been there and have experience working OEM, this happens.

And it may be a case where your worst experience is your best.......as long as you can tell about it

phoenix911

The woman is obviously a complete novice. From the looks of things, she needs at least a 48oz hammer to do this. Remember the first rule of instrument repair: There is nothing that can't benefit from a bigger hammer.

ROFL.

Well I have to admit it, I work with a hammer every day and you can do pretty much with it if you know what you're doing - and have the right weight, of course . It is, after all, for shaping metal not for wrecking stuff (unless it's a maul..). The picture looks bad, but of course it is true, the right ding is a good one. Not that I am in instrument repair, or anything!

"There is nothing that can't benefit from a bigger hammer," or the suitable application of high explosives.

My Dad used to say "Don't force it, get a bigger hammer". Amazing how often that works instead of wailing on it, a light tap with more weight can prevent a miss blow that could do worse damage. I can also straighten out a drill bit, hitting it while it's spinning in the chuck. Learned that one as a kid from a 70+ year old machinist.

That said, I have often had to remind the fairer sex "Righty tighty, lefty Lucy", then had to put up with a tirade when I told them 'that grinder has a left hand thread'.

I think a better shot would have been with her on a turret lathe with eye-wear and gloves, getting a nice curl from the tool.

The picture quality is poor but that looks like not so much as a dead blow hammer be a rubber hammer head.....your right, I saw the same also.

About the comment about the push up bra. A lot of other women use that tactic on men in a lot of other demeaning occupations. Out of work with three children to possibly support I won't judge her. At least she was honest about it. Knowing something about the trade even the new guy gets little respect until he shows what he knows. She still there in the trade and is shop foreman that is saying something.

Is very common. A materials planner and shop operations manager in a small machine shop, where I work last told me she got in 16 years ago because she showed off her assets. She was very well endowed. And a very good employee.

One thing I have found, is when you tell a women in a male dominated environment how to do something. YOU, better tell her correct, because she will do it that way.

But what is going on in this thread is typical sexists, not to be taken seriously. But should be pointed out so.

And I am guilty.

But that dam photog, should not have done it, Its her to blame. because action shots sell more.

phoenix911

GA Ozzb. I don't want to judge her either, and if that's what it took to get a job, well, it's the men running machine shops who should be ashamed, not her.

She looks to me like she could tackle any job in the shop. It's a crappy photo, but as you pointed out, she's doing what had to be done in this situation, and I assume she's doing it right or she wouldn't be in this position.

More power to her.

I doubt whether she's really doing much at all - I don't doubt that she knows her stuff, but I strongly suspect that the shot was posed.

Maybe the photographer got the idea¹ when she went to give it bit of a tap - but if that much impulsive force was really needed, surely she'd have used a bigger hammer, and not have tried to beat the hell out of it with that thing?

¹ "macho woman, ironfighting"

On this style of mill, we have one here that looks exactly the same, if it has the pneumatic tool holder, then you'd have to hit it on the sade face with a soft headed hammer, but if the tool holder is held in with the long lead screw (as we have here) then you'd be thumping the top of the mill to drift the tool out...

We once had a long time ago a oldy tooly guy here, he removed the little blocks that the tool holder aligns to when its inserted into the machine, saying that they were of no use and just made a problem as you had to align the holder with the machine every time you made a tool change..

I found out not long ago that if those little blocks are missing, and your swinging a large radius tool in the tool holder, that the tool holder can slip and possibly damage the BTxx fitting in the machine head ;o(

Snaketails:

Wow, what you said it does happen like I had posted earlier.

Yes ours were pneumatic also, you had to press a button to energize the air release, tap it with a hammer and hold the tool holder when it dropped all at the same time. This is where the picture says nothing if you do not understand what you are looking at.

And your last paragraph, as I stated in earlier posts, we pushed and exceed the limits on the machine, (we were very lucky, foolish, but lucky).

We also had a large radius tool in the holder. The router head was going 12,000-15,000 rpm. that tool holder came out, and the tool spun liker a top on the bed until it got teeth, and the mass of it, it took off and went through a concrete block wall.

hopefully this is the end of the negative criticism of the machinist, (though to the photographer thats ok).

Yes the shop were all males not a female in sight to pin it on. R&D, and s#it happens.

phoenix911

Looks like she's adjusting a Chevrolet engine... But the engine is missing.

JL Mealer

Mealer Companies LLC

http://mealercompanies.com

ozzb GA - all this talk about damaging things with hammers and bra's. She is using the right tool for the job. (dead blow mallet/hammer - not bra - or maybe that as well).

She is also posing for the shot so we should not read too much into it. As you say, if she has managed to get where she has she can't be all bad.

We also do not know how badly she has been misquoted on the bra side of the story. And anyway, is it soooo important.

Worse than the article are the rather ungentlemanly comments on her looks or her femininity. Not necessary and not the subject of the original post.

He is attempting to minimize the run-out of the spindle by re-seating the bearings.

Bushings, man, bushings! The more dings ya put in 'em the better the coolant can lubricate 'em.

There's only two reasons the tool gets stuck..........dirt.

Are you telling me that this mill has no headstock bearings? No wonder the operator is beating it with a hammer. Must be designed and manufactured in China!

I must first say that I have never worked with metal working machine tools, but I spent some time in an architectural mill. The entire time I was there we only had one accident and that was during the winter and it was very cold. One of our guys got his sleeve caught (tight fitting for safety at that) in a miter saw. It shattered the gaurd and the dynamic break kicked in immediately. He had to have a few stitches, but was back at work that afternoon.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that safety should be taken seriously. This article seems to glorify the danger of the job rather than the skill and expertice involved. Definitely not a good article to inspire anyone to become a machinist.

This article seems to glorify the danger of the job rather than the skill and expertice involved.

No, its more like an opinion center from poorly informed viewers.

This person could not possibly be a ticketed machinist

Machine shops are not prissy places to work where you sit at a desk all day long and read. write or play on a computer all day. Often the machines require a good whack to accomplish the task at hand. The people that work there tend to be big tough folks who live, walk, and talk tough. I applaud this woman who has made a career and probably more money than the prissy folks who are deriding her in the comments on this article for both her approach to life and her choice of career. By the way kudos to the U.S. Navy for teaching her the skills to succeed.

I have read several posts suggesting that what the person is donig is necessary. Not likely.

That machine is either a Bridgeport or a Bridgeport copy. Having been using them for 36 years I believe I can speak with authroity on the matter.

If there were a drill chuck with a drill or reamer and ther operator was tapping it lightly you might believe that she was adjusting the TIR of the tool. If there were an indicator in the spindle with no vise or fixture and the operator was again tapping the head, not the spindle lightly you might believe she was tramming in the head. No, that is NOT the way to remove a stuck collet or tool holder.

What the result of what she is doing however with a big swing of a big hammer aimed at an endmill in the spindle is most likely to break the cutter, sending it flying across the shop, and maybe knock the head out of alignment.

Give her her final check and send her out the door.

If there were a drill .....If there were an indicator .....

if, if, if ...

fact is no one really knows no matter what kind or how much experience the poster may have, and the photo was more than likely staged.

right now, its just entertainment.

It really doesn't matter if the photo was staged or not, although you are probably right, it does look staged. It was submitted for our reaction and yes, our entertainment.

I don't understand why you would post such a negative reaction to what I wrote. The ifs were my way of explaining my observastions and validating my concllusion. The conclusion is still the same. There is no good reason to swing such a big hammer at that spindle in the manner depicted.

Hi all,

I have the following points:

1. I have to compliment her on her method of job search. She used her feminine attributes to get her foot in the door and her skill to keep her job and advance to supervisor. Way to go, girl! She rightly thinks that us men are a little MACHO and therefore somewhat prejudiced in this area. Some of us see breasts first and some of us see the legs first. Me, I see what ever is most obvious. Then we may notice the whole person. Men are very predictable in this area.

2. It seems that over the years, she has adopted some of the macho attitude that is often thought of as a "Marine Drill Sergeant". This may have been necessary to achieve the advancements she has in such a male dominated environment.

3. Anyone working in the trades today knows the safety rules. The lack of safety goggles is why I believe this photo is staged for the press and this was mistakenly forgotten during the shoot. This is a serious error. Evan the journalist should have noticed and asked for a reshoot in order to strive for accuracy in their stories. I feel that having her posed assisting someone else would have better shown her position as supervisor.

4. Having been in machine repair field for 39 years, I too have resorted to the "Brut Force" technique or the "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" technique on many occasions and may have had the same expression on my face, although I would where my safety glasses.

tommm

That approach depends entirely on who is hiring and when the hiring was done. In 1950 yea everyone wore a suite to an interview.

In 2009 should the guy walk into my company wearing a suite and wanting machinists job he wont even have time to sit down before I tell him flat out, No I will not hire you simply because you over dressed for the interview and therefor I believe you are not a knowledgeable machinist simply because one would know what to wear to a machinists position interview.

If he came in wearing a clean shirt jeans and steel toed boots that looked a bit worn I would take him right out on the floor and have him show me what he can do before he even sat down!

Suite not hired. Clean dressed down but ready for work has the job within the first 10 minutes of the interview!

Aha......what you refer to as a bearing I refer to as a bushing......so yep...it is, as you say, called a headstock bearing.

My Taiwanese mill is great. I've line bored it twice just so it'll spin straight. Makes a great paperweight.

Hello garyeng;

Yes your right, it did come off as negative and condensending, I was following this thread early, I mean't it to come off as a mono-tone way.

And if you look at my earlier threads, you would see, I was also a part of the speculations. And the post was also meant to all including at myself also. especially the experience part.

my apologies,

phoenix911

OSHA to the rescue! She obviously needs to be counseled about the proper use of eye protection when working around machinery.

Also, the hammer she is using may be either too small or too big for the job, depending on what she's aiming at.

Ken Leigh

you've brought up a point.

I wonder....if she were to have an accident, could this be considered evidence that she does not follow safety rules?

phoenix911

ps I just looked at your profile.....what do you think?

what do you think?

That's something I seldom think about...

Seriously, after a career in the USAF where I learned the finer points of "brogan maintenance;" a short stay with a machine shop where I ran a lathe that turned out finished front axles for Ford pick-ups; several years as a chemical mixer; and a brief stint as a "quality control" officer where they wanted me to rubber stamp whatever production put out, whether it worked or not; that taught me to always get a bigger hammer when something was stuck, I am surprised that anything ever works right. When all it takes is a kick at a "black box" to readjust its alignment, or a slam on a stuck chuck or a pencil mark in the "correct" box to correct a problem, what's the point in having all these specialized tools and supervision and technical schools if no one ever goes by the book.

I have seen too much go out the front door as product that should have gone into the junk pile down in back to be surprised at whatever I see and/or hear. Mostly I just shake my head in disgust and walk away before I say something and get my "self" in deeper trouble.

Ken Leigh

Trying to remove the collet

That's something I seldom think about...

good for you, enjoy the more important things in life

Now having read the whole article I am very dissapointed in the journalist and in the young woman in the picture. It is no wonder that the machine trades and manufacturing in general have suffered so much in the public eye. The journalist had the opportunity to paint a very different picture. Instead she chose to degrade the the girl in the photo, the machining trade, and women in general. We men can't sink much lower so it didn't hurt us much as a gender.

In today's machining industry a real machinist, and I don't mean an operator, but a journyman level machinist must have a wide range of talents. He or she is called upon to be metalurgist, materials expert, electrician, draftsman, CAD modeler, inventor, purchasing agent, inspector, welder, engineer, mechanic, and highly skilled craftsman. It is a profession that is worthy of respect.

I applaud the woman for being willing to try something different, but I find the article and the photo to be disgusting.

true, a skilled employment position should not be looked at as a welfare program

phoenix911

The spindle has a stack of thrust bearings at the bottom end near the collet nose and a sealed ball bearing at the top. Neither can be fixed or improved by beating them with a hammer. There is a set screw at the back that locks the thrust ring. If that adjustment doesn't work then replace the bearings. That is if the the thrust ring hasn't been beaten till it is unusable.

Why do I want so much to believe that you would fire her on the spot? No second chances with the ballpean and the lathe?

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/article/20090706/NEWS01/907060317

ow, why can't I access this page? I'm intrigued!

but it does look like a vicious blow to the poor machine. maybe it bit her first (pun intended).

4 stars!

Not sure why you can't access it, its still up.

milo

Do you have a popup blocker turned on?

Hitting an arbor with a hammer may be an appropiate action to take if the machine, as you say was damaged and ready for the "scrap heap". In such a case, there was no harm in trying. A machine in good operating condition should never be assaulted in such a manner.

I disagree. As discussed before, "brogan" maintenance was and is an accepted form of repair for USAF mechanics and, I suspect, many other occupations, although they may call it something else.

Besides, I would not be too disparaging. After all, none of us were there. A hammer may just very well have been the correct procedure in this case.

If I were going to run any kind of profile in my newspaper, I think I might have chosen a more appropriate picture to illustrate my point.

Ken Leigh

it mysteriously showed up & was able to read the whole article. when I tried going back to page 1, it was gone again.

anyway, IMO women who have a bigger masculine tendency in them copy the worst habits of men. they smoke, drink beer, belch, walk with a swagger, and have distended tummies, too. I don't know if its the same with this lady.

seeing an old hand abuse his machine probably made her think it was a masculine thing to do. I would not be surprised if any product passed quality control in this shop, that is if they have QC in place at all. there might be someone in this form who is familiar with the shop. he could confirm this hunch.

As a former QC manager who was blind-sided by upper management at almost every turn, I can say positively that it's not always the QC man's fault that crap goes out the front door.

As for stereotypes, I reserve my opinion until I have met this woman face to face and have had a chnce to converse with her at some length to guage her by my standards. Until then, what she is doing may very well be the right thing to do in this case. Who of us is to judge? After all, we were not there.

Ken Leigh

imho:

in our world,

it's easy to forget that sometimes a good tap is exactly what is required.

safety glasses : a must. ( especially ) even if this is a staged act for the photo op.

focused on the task at hand, with purpose.

if i had a shop : would i hire her , yes, would i let her train my people , hell yes.

Also you have to ask, why would anyone be doing such a thing to the tool head/collet with nothing to catch it, or to protect the customers job underneath if it does let go and fall?

Scratch 1 engine block?

Snaketails:

Ha,

Also you have to ask, why would anyone be doing such a thing to the tool head/collet with nothing to catch it,

See post #4 second from last paragraph

Oh yea, like a man has never done this. It doesn't have to do with sex, it has to do with training.