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Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 12:08 PM

my old gateway gz7339 laptop xp

had been giving me intermitentint blue screen o death warning [too fast to read at start up]

finally wouldn't restart anymore, so I finally gave in & tried to do a full on destructive restore

I can get to bios

I can get to the recovery console, but it won't complete [ locks up around installing drivers after the restart]

no boot from cd as the player is broken

no boot from usb, not an option in bios

booting from FDD [floppy disc drive] is a bios option

booting from network is an option

the computer has usb, ether, phone & what looks like a monitor ports

I have a working unbuntu 8.04 old fullsized machine on the same network, which also has working cd/dvd, usb's, internet...

I have a 4g usb flash.

can't install the HDD in the fullsized, connector not compatible

any way to make a patch to use a fullsized cd/dvd on a laptop?

which port & how would I do a floppy boot?

any others methods

I try most anything that doesn't require spending much money [I've progressed to under employed]

I have a few full sized pc asst connectors & a soldering iron I'm not afraid to use

yes I know the HDD may be bad

worth a shot though

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#1

Re: Installing operating system, without cd

02/11/2010 2:02 PM

I assume this laptop came with the OEM OS preinstalled.

You still own the rights to a license, but you must pay a nominal charge for the media which the OEM will furnish.

Call Gateway and order the CD for $20. I had to do this recently with a Sony Viao laptop.

Keep the CD in a safe place for next time. I would use a new HD.

When you get going again, back up everything. Set the jumper to master on the new drive, rig the old one up as a USB, copy everything over. Reason: The CD is going to want to format the drive.

You could take the drive to another PC first for backup.

Or switch to Linux.

Good luck!

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#2

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 5:37 PM

The guest makes a good point. The simplest way to get an OS back onto this thing, considering it's condition, is to pull the drive, hook it up to another machine, and then copy the entire installation disc to it. Then, using a floppy with a simple DOS OS on it, run the setup files from there.

Truly, it does sound like this machine is due to be retired, though I can certainly relate to being unemployed. As soon as possible, I would seriously think about replacing it, as I would not give good odds on either being able to get it running again, or how long it will continue to run if you do succeed.

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#3

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 5:48 PM

Hello Garthh:

Sorry to hear about the employment situation, I found a laptop to desktop hard drive converter online the price is right $4.99.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=HD-108&cat=HDD

I've never used one so I can't say much about it. Another possibility would be to see if that converter would allow a standard CD-ROM drive to be connected to the laptop. It might be possible to pull the CD-ROM from your operating desktop and use it to load the laptop.

I also found another converter online for about 2 dollars that may allow using a full size CD-ROM. I'm not sure what your pin count is, I've never had a laptop apart.

http://www.1topstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=1335

Please excuse the somewhat rambled post using the full size CD-ROM was an afterthought, so I'm having to do this in edit mode.

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#4

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 5:59 PM

Try a floppy disk Linux distro:

http://freshmeat.net/search?q=floppy+distro&submit=Search

Or better, FreeDOS in a floppy:

http://www.linfo.org/freedos_floppy.html

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#5

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 7:22 PM

The sick cd player may be keeping the unit from booting. See what happens if you remove it completely from the unit. Maybe with the bad cd out of the machine, you can use a usb-ide adapter to connect an external cd, but that's a long shot.

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#6

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 7:33 PM

Boot linux from network is the easiest fix.

I like ubuntu, but debian is so user friendly - IMO it's the best for any kind of fix. Command line is so transparent, cw ubuntu's gui.

If the gateway machine is fried, upload a firewall for your ubuntu machine (eg, Firestarter). Linux isn't as vulnerable, but the number of hack attacks is huge, no matter what you're using.

Good luck!

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#7

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 8:46 PM

Ok no one actually read my entire post

I don't care about windows, I didn't lose any files of note, I had been saving anything important on an external HDD. I sure won't be paying Bill & his minions another $20

the ide adapters I've found so far all plug into the usb.

The bios [american mega trends v02.57] doesn't support booting from usb or I would boot from a flash drive....

the connector from the laptop HDD is incompatible with a standard fullsized HDD, power pins are integrated into the laptop connector, can't rig one without a male set like on the mother board of the lap

some more looking around shows the port for what looks like a monitor connector is a rs 232... so is this the FDD port? can I come right off the floppy ribbon connector of the fullsized machine? I'm not sure how to establish that kind of path to either a cd or flash version an operating system. I suppose cloning the fullsized machine's Operating system [unbuntu 8.04] may be possible.

I may be able to rig an adapter for the lap cd input to be able to be used as a input for a fullsized cd, I gotta take a look at the circuit board of the lap cd player[dead] & see if I can solder something up [so far this seems like a good bet] I haven't been able to get the thing out. I think I just need to grab the frame with a needle nose & give it a good jerk [yes I took the screws out].

I found a network boot procedure, but am having trouble following it.

& once again I know it may not be possible to ressurect the beast.

Never seemed to matter which security I ran full version macafee or more recently avg always had to restore every 6 months or so. never surfed porn, gaming, music sites...

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 9:11 PM

Maybe I missed the point, you want to be able to load the hard drive and you don't have a working CD-ROM in the laptop.

The first adapter in the original post address your problem and is not a USB. I'm not sure you'll get away with loading a hard drive on the desktop and then putting it into the laptop, but as long as you don't install any drivers it's possible.

Got an old notebook hard drive collecting dust on your shelf? Maybe your old notebook has given up the ghost but you need your data? Then this HD-108 universal notebook hard drive to desktop adapter is the answer you've been looking for!

The HD-108 converts your 2.5-inch notebook hard drive into a standard 3.5-inch PC compatible hard drive. It features a 44-pin notebook to 40-pin IDE adapter and a large 2-pin Molex power connector! Mounting brackets and
drive bay!

Simply connect the adapter to the notebook drive and then to the desktop system! Order the HD-108 notebook hard drive to desktop screws are included for easy installation in a 3.5-inch internal adapter today!

By the way I did read your entire post.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 9:11 PM

Garth, you can get an adapter to hook your laptop drive to a desktop ribbon cable for a couple bucks, or perhaps your local computer shop might let you borrow one.

The RS 232 is in fact a serial port, looks a lot like a male version of the VGA port. However, I don't believe you'll be able to boot from it.

I've never tried doing a network boot and I'm not sure if it's applicable in this case. Check with bwire. He's pretty knowledgeable about this sort of thing.

I hate to have to tell you this old bean, but I have to agree with you that this things chances are none too good. Unless I miss my guess, this thing is a P4 with 512meg RAM. It's gotta be slower than Christmas, and from what you say, it's in pretty bad shape to boot. Good luck, but I think you might be needing a new laptop sooner than later.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 10:16 PM

oops guilty

thanks for staying with me YW

I guess I should have read your post more closely.

I'm not in any hurry to spend any money on this POS

got the cd out, the pins are probably too close together for me to solder [ugg surface mount] on the board & I'm not sure I can plug it in without the board & frame from the cd unit

I'll spend some more time trying to make sense of the boot from network procedure

The old machine does have a ribbon connector for an actual floppy drive & zip drive. still I wonder about using this as a direct route

I don't have any laptop junk yet

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 10:39 PM

Have you investigated flashing a new BIOS version? I don't know if your BIOS or your hardware permits this, but I recently did this with a machine off line- downloaded the update from the BIOS supplier, and followed the instructions. This might give you access to a USB port boot. Also, perhaps if you plug a USB drive in before you power up the machine, the machine may recognize it as a bootable device...

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 10:53 PM

I did try leaving the stick in 7 or so times

I haven't been to the bios vendor site yet,

Thanks for that & not telling me the obivious [I'm fuqked]

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/11/2010 11:48 PM

No problem. And I've learned something, in the two links I posted one refers to the notebook connector as a 44 pin, the second link reefers' to a 50 pin connector,

It makes sense to have a 44 pin connector obviously the four extra pins are for power. So now I understand why the connectors are different.

I am clueless as to why there would be a 50 pin connector. I am curious how many pins your CD-ROM has? One where the other that will be some mighty tight soldering.

I've never booted or tried to do an install from a network drive, but you've given me a project for tomorrow. I know I've seen the option in my bias .

Good luck with your project, and keep us posted as to your progress.

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#14

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 12:20 AM

Situation begs the question what is overheating? Fix that. Disconnect the disc drive.

Would have been simpler before the restore...painted into the corner...What manu and model HDD?

Make/model of motherboard?

USB floppy drive plus a PCI USB adaptor...no PCI slot?

**********

Plug-In Module (Laptop)

Floppy (IDC)

http://www4.shopping.com/xPO-IBM-08K9606

************

Install DOS, make it up as you go

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#15
In reply to #7

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 12:25 AM

macafee and avg are junk security for home users...both Mac and Linux are an easier hack than MS go figure.

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#16
In reply to #7

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 6:43 AM

To answer you point by point:-

Ok no one actually read my entire post

I did, which is why I took my time to answer, its not as simple as many believe...

I don't care about windows, I didn't lose any files of note, I had been saving anything important on an external HDD. I sure won't be paying Bill & his minions another $20.

Good.

the ide adapters I've found so far all plug into the usb.

The bios [American mega trends v02.57] doesn't support booting from usb or I would boot from a flash drive....

Have you checked for a BIOS update that will allow USB booting?

the connector from the laptop HDD is incompatible with a standard full sized HDD, power pins are integrated into the laptop connector, can't rig one without a male set like on the mother board of the lap.

There are 2.5" HD adapters around that can be bought on ebay for $5 or so.....take a look. How will that help you further though?

some more looking around shows the port for what looks like a monitor connector is a rs 232... so is this the FDD port? can I come right off the floppy ribbon connector of the fullsized machine? I'm not sure how to establish that kind of path to either a cd or flash version an operating system. I suppose cloning the fullsized machine's Operating system [unbuntu 8.04] may be possible.

I cannot imagine that there is another port on the laptop that will help you much.....

I may be able to rig an adapter for the lap cd input to be able to be used as a input for a fullsized cd, I gotta take a look at the circuit board of the lap cd player[dead] & see if I can solder something up [so far this seems like a good bet] I haven't been able to get the thing out. I think I just need to grab the frame with a needle nose & give it a good jerk [yes I took the screws out].

Is just the CD defective? If yes, try and buy a replacement of the same type on ebay. Or even a complete Laptop....if its old they will be very cheap.....then use yours later for spare parts!!

This is the way I personally would go, get the original CD running again in some way.......

I found a network boot procedure, but am having trouble following it.

Most of us will.....

& once again I know it may not be possible to resurrect the beast.

Never seemed to matter which security I ran full version macafee or more recently avg always had to restore every 6 months or so. never surfed porn, gaming, music sites...

Try Kaspersky the next time.

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#17

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 7:00 AM

I am not sure if its possible or not but in the days of Win98, we could start booting with a floppy and get a CD or USB CD or external USB Drive read to complete the install of the OS (I know as this is WinXP, that may not work at all!).

........but as I have personally never done it with XP, I cannot really help.....

By the way, use Win98SE as it had support for USB.....

This may be completely impractical, if so, my apologies.......

You really need to get that or another "built in" CD running.......

Also, check if its possible to attach two HD drives (the original and one other?)at the same time, after loading the WinXP CD on to the second drive or course.......does the BIOS show two possible Hard Drive positions?

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 12:13 PM

am not sure if its possible or not but in the days of Win98, we could start booting with a floppy and get a CD or USB CD or external USB Drive read to complete the install of the OS (I know as this is WinXP, that may not work at all!).

Yes it's done with DOS 7.10 floppy then complete XP install with CD...very surprised it has no PCI slot...bummer.

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#19

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 12:15 PM

I can get to the recovery console, but it won't complete [ locks up around installing drivers after the restart]

Can you not install drivers after?

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#20
In reply to #9

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 12:16 PM

Thanks

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 12:21 PM

I'll build 'em, you program 'em.

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#22
In reply to #17

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 1:40 PM

Info on parts:

cd = H-L data storage

model gca-4080n ( AGYB23 )

serial 505zj039899

HDD = Hitachi travelstar

model C25N080ATMR04-0

P/N 08k0635

ata ide 80g

The crack about not reading was mostly for the guest telling me to call windows & buy a new XP cd. followed by Dr moose telling me what I already know which is I need a new one& then I stopped reading. { I hate when that happens ], Not surprised a certain amount of abuse comes my way when I open mouth insert leg

the options for boot from in bios are:

HDD, FDD, network, CD

no other choices

How can I install an update to the bios, if I have no clear working point of entry?

may it be possible to rig or buy an adapter so I can plug in a fullsized cd to the laptop, which would let me install unbuntu?

The connector on the bad lap top looks too small & is surface mounted to solder any thing up... I'm trying not to throw good money after bad, by buying parts that can't be used for other things.

So far buying a adapter extender so I can use what ever fullsized cd/dvd should occasion arise again on whatever laptop, is leading if I have to spend money

I had also considered putting the HHD from the laptop in the fullsized as secondary, connector also not compatible

what can I do with the serial port?

I have a [probably] good actual mini floppy drive & an actual floppy, once again how do I get there from here?

For B

I blew it out about a month ago, I'll pull the cover & give it a more through going over.

I can tell it's time to clean when it starts getting hot under the CPU

should I ignore the signal it will start shutting itself off.

not a bad cooling set up, both the intake & the exhaust are on the back...

When I do a restore I get past the point where the gateway module tells me to restart

restarts ok, gets to the point in the windows process where it either hangs on the installing keyboard, mouse drivers screen or the one after

[Since I did my Ubuntu install on my fullsized pc I found a cd cover with a different key code which explains why the code on the tower wouldn't work.]

Thanks for all the help so far,

I gotta go remove a small stump & no I don't need any advice on how to run the shovel or swing the axe

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#23

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 4:13 PM

For updating the BIOS: http://www.ami.com/

I do not know if they still support your hardware.

When I flashed an update into my BIOS, I did it from a floppy with no operating system installed at all. Downloaded the update with another computer and wrote it to a floppy. The floppy was a bootable floppy. After flashing the new BIOS version, I loaded the operating system. Pretty straight forward, and the BIOS developer I used gave some pretty good instructions...

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 9:11 PM

ahh

there's the rub how do I hook the floppy up to the laptop?

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 10:02 PM

You didn't read my other post eh?

Have you checked the CPU temp or replaced the paste?

Install Dos 7.1 from USB then flash BIOS from USB.

Enter BIOS and set to boot from USB; according to spec it can. Create a boot-able USB and install whatever.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 10:13 PM

ah still not getting it how do I install anything? can't get to dos of any kind?

don't see cpu temp anywhere on bios

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 10:26 PM

If turn on an wait does computer shut down after a while?

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 10:33 PM

no

I left it running for most of a day, cd spinning[wishful thinking] & stick with 9.04

no problem..

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 10:38 PM

Putt over here an find a part...

Mariposa County Landfill
Michelle Miller, Solid Waste & Recycling Manager
5593 Hwy 49 North
Mariposa, CA 95338
Phone: (209) 966-5165
Fax: (209) 966-7453
Website: www.mariposacounty.org

Materials Accepted

Cell Phones/PDAs/PagersComputer Monitors
Computers/CPUsCopiers
Printers/Scanners/Fax MachinesStereos
Telephones/Telephone SystemsTelevisions
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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/12/2010 11:13 PM

they only do a few events a year

I was actually just talking to her about organizing a trash pick up..

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 11:41 AM

Don't do it. You still have a laptop. Since I don't know the dimensions of the connector or the pin spacing this may be of no use. If you're like most of us you've probably got some ribbon cables lying around, if the spacing is the same possibly you can make your own adapter to load the laptop hard drive from the desktop.

http://www0.more-solutions.co.uk/support/hardrives.html

The above link has the pin out. A little whittling on the ribbon cable and make your four pin power adapter by cutting up a second ribbon cable. The downside a mistake could take out the motherboard on the desktop. I didn't say it was a good idea just an idea.

For those of us currently in our situation (have been off work due to a injury for over a year now) The old adage of money not growing on trees is quite true.

Of course the reason money doesn't grow on trees is that the banks have all the branches.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 1:08 PM

I think I'm gonna buy an extender/adapter for the CD, which will come in handy for other laptops in the future, the need to burn is usually intermittent & fullsized cd/dvd are very common.

I have a carcass of a pc [MOBO, PSU]which I could experiment with. I looked at that, I'm not sure even if it works that the HDD would then work in the laptop?

I'm interested in any way to go in through the serial port.

any insight into that?

I have to burn brush today

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 1:29 PM

I personally have never heard of anyone installing an operating system via the serial port. To achieve that would need a great deal of intimate PC knowledge......

...and probably a couple of days to do the install.....

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 1:30 PM

Garthh-

I am not sure, but I believe most disk hardware is parallel access, which means you would need a serial to parallel converter just to start reading or writing to the disk. RS232 is way, way too slow to attempt this. Furthermore, the machine with the RS232 receiver must already be booted, and capable of telling the port, "OK, ready to receive information". Then there are timing and synching issues...

You can easily communicate between two computers over RS232, once BOTH computers have been set up to talk to each other. Without a communications program already running on the laptop, I don't think you are going to have much luck. The other side of this is that, if you can get just a bare bones operating system running on the machine, you might be able to utilize the serial port, and you could use a language like Forth to accomplish things most computer gurus will tell you are imposssible...

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#35
In reply to #32

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 1:50 PM

I think your solution with the adapter for the full size CD-ROM is a good one, it certainly wouldn't make sense to spend money on a laptop CD-ROM those little critters are pricey.

As far as the serial port I know nothing, a friend of mine has experience with that and I'll let you know if I find out anything useful.

I've never played with unbuntu, I keep saying I'm going to take the plunge. I put a machine together for about 80 bucks for that purpose and ended up making it xp server and using it to watch Hulu on the TV. So I'm not sure how unbuntu would react.

I am sure however about windows 98 or millennium, if you happen to have an old copy you can move the hard drive machine to machine without problems.

I usually back up all my software to the hard drive, just in case I scratch the CD, and I have upgraded versions of windows directly from the hard drive. Or at least that's the way I remember it, utilizing a separate partition.

The thought here if all else fails 98 will load, some operating systems is better than no operating system. I don't know about unbuntu, but you could copy XP to the hard drive and fire up the laptop on 98 and possibly do an upgrade.

Of course I'm leaving myself open for foot in mouth disease if it doesn't work, but I have moved windows 98 hard drives from one machine to the other in the past.

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 2:57 PM

All these ideas including use of the serial port first require an O/S.

I think all this maybe caused by the damaged CD, get it out of there.

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 3:00 PM

Ubuntu (and, as I understand it, other flavors of Linux as well) is much more "transportable" than other operating systems with which I am familiar (i.e., moving hard drives between machines). Linux seems much more capable of recognizing hardware configurations at boot, and loads appropriate drivers out of the box, whereas with Windows, one sometimes needs to look for the correct drivers when the hardware configuration changes (i.e., moving the hard drive to another machine). Another advantage of Linux- one can access a Windows partition for salvaging files from a Linux partition, but the reverse is not true. I have used this feature to rescue Windows boxes contaminated with viruses and such...

But, one still needs a bootable device to get the operating system into the machine. I know one can, with appropriate hardware, boot Linux from a usb memory stick. I do not know if the BIOS in this particular case will support this- which is why trying to flash a new BIOS version makes sense.

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#38
In reply to #28

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 3:15 PM

Set running all day but it wasn't working, try set on top of something frozen see if then works many others have this issue resolved by cooling.

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 4:34 PM

How do I get the bios upgrade to load?

yes B I did try with out the cd, I'll give it a more through cleaning before the next round

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#40

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 4:39 PM

One of the choices on bios for booting is FDD [floppy disc drive], is that [option] there in case this version of bios was installed on a fullsized machine?

I wonder which hole [access port] is hooked to this option?

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 5:16 PM

How do I get the bios upgrade to load?

The manual says to save the BIOS update to a USB Flash Disk.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 5:19 PM

I can do that

what's the next step?

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#43

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 5:50 PM
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#44
In reply to #39

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 6:13 PM

Garthh-

Go to the website I referenced earlier and download the package. There will be instructions included in the package- my BIOS, which is different than yours, required a floppy drive. I am not familiar with the procedure for yours, but the web site will have instructions...

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#45
In reply to #40

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 6:14 PM

If you had a floppy drive with usb interface, the machine might recognize this as a valid floppy...

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#46
In reply to #43

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 6:17 PM

WOW!!!

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#47
In reply to #42

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 6:19 PM

Put in port before turn on

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#48
In reply to #43

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 6:45 PM

That's cool, I'm sure it's slow but it could be useful in an older laptop. As long as I am doing an off topic post I'll pick your brain. After breaking down and purchasing a copy of windows 7 a problem appeared that I did not have with the release candidate.

Random blue screens of death when the machine malfunctions the only way to get the machine operating is to reset the bias to default, restart and then put my settings in.

A little additional information I'm using the windows free antivirus and it does not seem to get along with yahoo.

It does not seem to be a hardware problem but more like some information is being cached to the hard drive.

Any ideas?

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#49
In reply to #43

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/13/2010 7:18 PM

oh I saw it & considered it but the 4g usb flash was free from a friend, the same size CF $ 35. & seemed like [the usb] it would be more useful overall.

Let me try all my [other ] favorite computer nerds. I won't have any spare funds until after I start back with the census in a couple of weeks. So I can't do much of anything until then.

hijack away YW,

if 7 is as much fun as vista my condolences

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#50
In reply to #39

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 5:33 AM

Put software on a floppy, set BIOS to floppy boot!!!

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 11:32 AM

& how [where] would I plug that floppy in?

understand?

I've got it 1/2 apart, so I can blow the dust out of it right now,

I'm gonna try to put the bios upgrade on a stick & see if it will take it

Today is another burn day, so I'm burning brush... Gotta get the fire danger down while I can

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 12:28 PM

Don't set the hills on fire!!!

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#53
In reply to #51

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 3:18 PM

It has to be on a device that the BIOS can boot from, USB was NOT an option according to you. But maybe once the new BIOS is in, there will be a USB Boot possibility.

You told us that the floppy was OK, only the CD was not working (I thought!!) Now you tell us that the floppy is also defective...

Look on ebay, many are selling parts for old Laptops......new/secondhand floppy and CD drive....maybe?

I do feel that you either need to buy the right bits or get a new Laptop.....with what you have and your limited knowledge, I somehow don't think that you will achieve anything otherwise...sorry!

You make a Scotsman look like a Benevolent Society!!

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#54
In reply to #48

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 3:38 PM

BIOS is often a cause of bsod at start up or shutdown, registry corruption can also.

Penguin should be happy with it.

Use avira personal free instead

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#55
In reply to #49

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 3:44 PM

Scrounge that site an find the laptop to desktop CD adapter card $9

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#56
In reply to #37

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 4:09 PM

Wow this thread is really floundering around. Why would you want to use windows on a gateway machine? As I mentioned earlier, debian is very user-friendly and transparent. For instructions to boot from the net, go here. The minimal hardware options are laid out right on this page.

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 7:13 PM

Ok I see where you're trying to lead me

I get to here & don't quite understand:

2.4.4. Network

The network can be used during the installation to retrieve files needed for the installation. Whether the network is used or not depends on the installation method you choose and your answers to certain questions that will be asked during the installation. The installation system supports most types of network connections (including PPPoE, but not ISDN or PPP), via either HTTP or FTP. After the installation is completed, you can also configure your system to use ISDN and PPP.

You can also boot the installation system over the network.

Please translate this next part?

Diskless installation, using network booting from a local area network and NFS-mounting of all local filesystems, is another option.

Thanks artsmith for following along & helping

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#58
In reply to #53

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 7:22 PM

Calm down Andy

The american megatrends bios version v02.57, has an option for booting from FDD.

The machine does not or ever had a floppy disc drive!

I can't explain why there is an option for hardware that doesn't exist.

I was hoping one of you guys could help me understand what it means?

I do not buy anything from ebay, pay pal is not your friend, never give them any access to your bank account...

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#59
In reply to #57

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 7:26 PM

This is Ubuntu specific, but may help:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Netboot

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#60
In reply to #55

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 7:27 PM

This is the leading option, should I have to buy something

as I said nice little widgit, for laptops in general

I'm gonna spend a few more mintues on artsmiths proposed solution & see if i can make sense of it...

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#61
In reply to #57

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 7:40 PM

I do not have the expertise to help you one on one with your specific problem, but it is available in the users forums, where you will find very explicit answers to every question afaik. Good folks with a helping hand, that have seen these issues many times.

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#62
In reply to #59

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 7:44 PM

I looked at this once but didn't get to the right place

I'm Here I think I understand

I gave it a good cleaning, but haven't put it back together yet

part of the problem is when I see too much command line stuff, my eyes glaze over & I here Charlie Brown's teacher talking [Wa Wah Wa Wah]

I'm burning now, before the fire danger goes up

I would like to Stick with unbuntu & try a 9.04 install.

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: Command lines in debian

02/14/2010 8:01 PM

For installation purposes, the universal command line in debian is "apt-get install (name of program)".

The installation process will be seen on your terminal screen. It will come to a point where it specifies the amount of memory required, and asks you to give a y/n prompt to go ahead.

The memory requirements are trivial unless you are running a Commodore 64 or are overloaded with something else, so just y to all the libraries and stuff required to run the system.

If you run into a problem, the forums are your best help. but if the simple installation doesn't run you can post it here, I might know the answer or I might not. I'm not very sophisticated in the system but I found it user-friendly so I think you might also. The command lines in debian are very straightforward, that's why it was recommended to me, and I found it very good.

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#64
In reply to #61

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 8:06 PM

I'll probably stick on the unbuntu side for now, I've been using their forum

all the open source people are very helpful.[as are the people here]

On unbuntu the prefix is sudo, the command line stuff isn't really that bad, I can usually copy & paste from another tab

I was on slightly the wrong section a few days ago.

My understanding is that I need to make my ol fullsized pc act as a server & I should be able to boot across my home network.

For a minute there it looked as though I could upgrade my bios & boot from USB, alas not to be [so far]

I also know on the hardware side B, Andy & some others know this stuff, & have been able to expand my knowledge. With their help [unbuntu forum too] i was able to resurrect an old dead pentium III, into a working Unbuntu 8.04 box. I probably could have gone the debian route also [looked at Suse too]

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 8:27 PM

I'm using ubuntu on my current machine, it was installed over the net with no CD (although I did not do it myself it was pretty seamless afaict).

Sudo gets you to admin privileges, otherwise you can command away and be refused.

In debian you would "su root" and give your password to get to admin screen.

I like the ubuntu gui, but I find the system awkward for fixing a problem, cw debian. The gui makes everything easy, except for fixing problems, then it's a pain in the a$$, IMHO.

But the forums are great and if you decide to install it you should get lots of help there.

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#66
In reply to #64

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 10:53 PM
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#67
In reply to #66

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/14/2010 11:59 PM

Isn't that for using a laptop cd on a desk top pc?

"desktop" that bit of nomenclature gets confusing especially in linux land

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#68
In reply to #67

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 12:13 AM

Think...of the order listed in BIOS

The IDE HDD and FDD connection is identical

I can't figure you going that way linux is the easiest system to crack??

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 12:28 AM

ok lets assume this would let me plug a regular fullsized cd dvd into the HDD[ide] slot on the laptop.

I would load the bios update in?

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#70
In reply to #69

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 12:41 AM

yep or O/S or boot from it

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 1:27 AM

This slimline CD-ROM to desktop IDE adapter is used for converting a notebook style CD-ROM or DVD drive that has a 50-pin connector to a desktop enhanced IDE (ATA) 40-pin connector. This adapter is necessary if you are planning to use a slimline CD/DVD drive with a Mini-ITX mainboard.

The above description leads me to beleive that it's for using a laptop cd on a fullsized pc

I almost understand

Bios update I get

what good would being able to boot [OS] from the cd do?

have it on the ram & reinstall the HDD?

what would that procedure be?

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#72
In reply to #65

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 5:57 AM

Excellent info, but how did you get the PC to a level of intelligence tghat it can accept data over the network? Surely there are few BIOSs that can do this? (Or better said, I have never heard of one up to now!)

Thanks in advance.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 7:35 AM

Sorry, I don't know the answer. As I said, it was done for me.. unfortunately, I didn't pay close attention - LAZY!

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 8:33 AM

Thanks for being so honetst.

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#75
In reply to #72

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 12:08 PM

According to the BIOS specs for this application a Dos O/S can be installed via usb...

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#76
In reply to #60

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/15/2010 4:29 PM

And Hello Garthh:

It seems you've got enough advice to keep you occupied until you get back to work, just digesting all the information.

The little I would add is most of it seems to be correct particularly about needing an operating system for the serial port.

I did check with my resident expert in the old knowledge. If somehow you are to able to load DOS to get the serial port running (which I know you can't because you don't have a floppy) then you need a special crossover cable and you can load computer to computer via the serial port.

According to him network loading is no problem of course he hasn't done it since he was in school but he said it was no big thing. If you go computer to computer again you would need a crossover cable. Over the land no problem.

In the past he had run into a similar problem, that is no operational CD on a laptop he had, his one advantage was that he did have an operational floppy drive and was able to load dos.

He copied the windows operating system to the laptop hard drive on his desktop, started the computer with dos and was able to install windows from the hard drive.

PS: windows 7 seems to be a decent operating system unfortunately the 64 bit version is very finicky particularly to drivers, and of course I loaded the 64 bit. So I've had a crash course in solving Microsoft's problems. Heavy emphasis on the crash.

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#77
In reply to #65

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/22/2010 7:59 PM

I find the advice posted from the UBUNTU forum incomprehensible because of the jargon. Every respondent assumes you know all the acronyms short forms etc. Where does a newbie to computing go for help in plain language intended for the non technical user? Please do not tell me to go buy a "linux for dummies book" In the first place I have never seen such a title and secondly I am 50 miles away from the nearest town and lacking a credit card am not able to get something from Amazon.com booksellers. Surely there is a website for newbies where answer are given in plain language and does not require a colege degree in computer science. I began using Linux to overcome the frequent attacks by windows focussed virua and trojan programs . today olost my sound and canot figuer out why. this was my lifeline to the outside world. I do not have a phone but was using SKYPE I am afraid of also losing the email because then i would really be cut of 50 miles from anyplace. There is no one around here with any knowledge of computers let alone Linux. HELP!

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#78
In reply to #77

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/22/2010 8:36 PM

hi Elnav,

the jargon can be daunting, keep asking until you understand.

the threads get old very quickly, so you may have to rephrase & repost

which version unbuntu, I stuck with 8.04lts.

have you been getting the updates?

what kind of MOBO [mother board] and all the other specs too good to have a list:

bios

HDD hard disk drive

the amount of ram

MOBO

processor speed

Built in sound card?

Simple headphones or something more elaborate?

here are some other places to go for help in no particular order:

http://justlinux.com/forum/index.php

http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php

http://forums.techguy.org/

http://www.techsupportforum.com/

I like computer hope & techguy

or tell us more

Andy & Bwire know this stuff...

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#79
In reply to #78

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/22/2010 9:07 PM

I am also using Ubuntu 8.04 but I did enable the updates for security patches. I did not knowingly add new programs since this computer was intended primarily for email and using skype. We have been using it for viewing streaming TV like news casts lately because we do not have any TV or radio reception in our area . Too remote and sparsely populated. Sat TV is too expensive. I have a 80 GB HDD one CD/RW drive which cannot get to work but it was working before and AMD Semprom CPU plus 512 mb of RAM. The clock rate is about 1.2 Gig if I recall correctly. T he box was originally an eMachine but the mother board was toast so I found a replacement plus processor at a computer store sale. It has no floppy drive just the CD/RW and four USB ports. Two front and two on MOBO. Am using on board sound and video no plug on boards.. Do not even know how to bring up data on MOBO except by opening the case which I can do after completing this message. To tell the truth I am a bit leery of tinkering with this in case of a screw up that is going to cut me off from the outside world and any help. I use an amplified speaker plugged into front jacks but must plug a head set into back jacks in order for mic to sound clear on Skype. If I plug them in opposite way, the sound breaks up. someone told me it was difference due to impedance line jacks to external speakers or sound system and high impedance direct headphone connections. I will try the links you provided before I shut down to look what is printed on MOBO for brand name.

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#80
In reply to #79

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/22/2010 9:48 PM

Try this to find your MOBO info

http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/moboid2.html

do a restart & have a look [push f2 probably] at the bios settings, version & such. poke around the menus in bios.

I don't know if any of this stuff is relevant, I'm just judging by the kind of questions I was getting asked, when I was trying to figure out my sound problems on a old dell PC. I ended up installing a PCI sound card, which I'm sure you can do if worst comes to worst.

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#81
In reply to #79

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/22/2010 10:09 PM

To determine the specifications of your system, there is an application "sysinfo" available from sourceforge.net/projects/gsysinfo that can identify your motherboard, sound card, graphics card, memory, and hardware configuration. The "g" in front suggests to me that it is built around the "Gnome" desktop- I still don't know how many applications written for KDE function in Gnome and vice versa...

This little application gives you a surprising amount of information about the internals of the machine, and can help with troubleshooting...

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#82
In reply to #80

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 2:50 AM

Garth do you realize Linux flashes a warning screen saying this website has a very poor reputation for dumping trojans and spam into your machine if you acess the site? My mother board is a GIGABYTE GA M61P ME - S2 equipped with 512 mb of RAM and the AMD Semprom CPU no external sound or video card. I guess I am looking for a switch to reset everything to the defaults but somehow I do not think removing the BIOS memory battery is going to afect the Linus Ubuntu software. All the routine hardware tests say the machine is working as it should I did check to see if I could find any kind of mute soft key. No such luck and the icon in tool bar does not have any bar across it.Right clicking the speaker icon opens the window that has 'open volume control' this too looks okay with no muting evident. I'm stumped.

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#83
In reply to #77

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 7:38 AM

Elnav,

There are a couple of useful commands for getting information on your computer. Open up a terminal and type "apropos sound". That will give you a list of sound programs and applications on your system. Look through the list and find something likely. "apropos audio" gives me an overlapping but slightly different list. AND if you "sudo" that is get root privileges before your "apropos" query you will get a slightly different list again.

When you identify something that might be useful to solve the problem, type "man (name of the program)" This brings up the man pages and will tell you what it can do, and how to run it from your terminal.

To leave the man page CTRL-z and you'll get your terminal back.

Reading this stuff is a good place to start to get a handle on the jargon.

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#84
In reply to #82

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 10:02 AM

do you mean CR4?

you might also have a look around the mother board site for a manual

Working today I'll be back later... art has some good insight

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#85
In reply to #83

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 2:00 PM

I have finally figured out how to find a terminal but following your instructions gives me a lot of incomprehensible instructions. I haven't a clue what to do with it. I get: arild@Arildlinux:~$ apropos sound alsactl (1) - advanced controls for ALSA soundcard driver alsamixer (1) - soundcard mixer for ALSA soundcard driver, with ncurse... amixer (1) - command-line mixer for ALSA soundcard driver aplay (1) - command-line sound recorder and player for ALSA soundc... arecord (1) - command-line sound recorder and player for ALSA soundc... artscat (1) - pipe data to sound device asoundconf (1) - utility to read and change the user's ALSA library con... gnome-sound-recorder (1) - simple sound recorder Gnome2::Sound (3pm) - (unknown subject) pabrowse (1) - List PulseAudio sound servers on the network pacat (1) - Play back or record raw audio streams on a PulseAudio ... pacmd (1) - Reconfigure a PulseAudio sound server during runtime pactl (1) - Control a running PulseAudio sound server paplay (1) - Play back audio files on a PulseAudio sound server sound-juicer (1) - GNOME-desktop CD ripper and player using GStreamer sound-monitor_applet (1) - Sound Monitor applet for the GNOME panel. arild@Arildlinux:~$ The text box comes up with right side justification. I have no ide a how it happened and on my Linux machine the normal toolbars you see when using windows is gone. NADA ZIP - plus the middle of the editor text window is filled with a box saying "loading Editor content". when the cursor falls inside this area you cannot write. You have to scroll around to get the cursor to edge of box before you can write something.

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#86
In reply to #85

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 2:27 PM

well... at least the list sounds normal - as for your windows disappearing and right justification this should never happen just from opening a terminal in ubuntu!!

The GUI I have in Ubuntu, there's an applications menu in the top left corner, and terminal is in the accessories menu under that... It just opens the terminal in a little... terminal window. the justification is left, always. Nothing else should be affected by opening the terminal. It sounds like something is very messed up...

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#87
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Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 2:50 PM

Oops! Sorry I was talking about the window right here in CR4 forum discussions. I have always had problems due to me reading the CR4 forum with my Linux machine. Moose told me it was a low priority compared to other issues their IT people were coping with. C'est la vie! Linux users have to shift for themselves, Windows and Microsoft rule!!

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#88
In reply to #85

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 3:22 PM

elnav-

What version of Firefox are you using? Also, I notice the appearance of the CR4 pages is very sensitive to screen resolution. With regards to loading the editor window- that seems to be a problem with the Internet connection- when my provider is traffic-challenged, loading takes a lot longer, on all my machines.

Regarding your sound problem. I am beginning to suspect a hardware problem. Try this. Turn on your speakers, volume control max, and wiggle the plug (in and out). Do you get any staticy noise out of it?

If I understand you right, you have lost sound on both the speaker jack and the earphone jack. The fact that you had sound before, and all of a sudden lost it, supports this suspecion. Unfortunately, you have no access to an alternative sound card...

Did you get a manual with the motherboard?

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#89
In reply to #87

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 3:24 PM

pheew!! what a relief! I thought you were overrun with some ubuntubug!!

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#90
In reply to #88

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 4:02 PM

I am using Firefox version3.0.9 but presumably updated since I allowed automatic updates to UBUNTU and related programs. I am using a Viewsonic A75f 17" monitor set for high resolution for doing CAD work. I am running the default video circuit contained on the GIGABYTE mother board. The speakers seem to work elsewhere and I get static noise when wiggling the plugs in the computer jacks. Neither set of audio (front or back) produce sounds leading me to suspect some kind of software switch that turned off the audio channel. or else the audio chip on the MOBO has failed. but this loss of sound has happened before and reappeared just as mysteriously as it had gone. Sound came back when I was away . No idea what if any deliberate intervention was made. We have just moved and I am having trouble locating where things got put. Still unpacking a gallon in a pint pot. I would have to find a manual online.

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#91
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Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 4:56 PM

OK, if you are getting static, less likely a hardware problem....I need to think about this a bit more.

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#92

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 6:02 PM

I was looking around for some really readable stuff that might be useful to Gaarth and Elnav as well, and I found this really nicely written guide to the basic command lines in Ubuntu.

The most important tool of all is the "man" command - and the fact every command has a man page. So if you don't get the command line stuff when you're searching for help on a forum, read the man page for it in your terminal.

A bigger list of linux commands is here at the OReilly site - they write the best books about linux BTW if anyone can afford a book!

Also found these ubuntu resources which weren't in anyone else's links, they seem to be good and clear. http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Linux_Essentials has installation info, and there's another decent intro to the desktop http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Desktop_Essentials . Ubuntu is just Debian in a fancy suit, you know.

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#93
In reply to #82

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 6:35 PM

GIGABYTE GA M61PME - S2

Checkout this link for your needs and I have to scoot a convention dinner etc.

later...

http://blitware.com/adpages/driverfetch/manufacturer/?manufacturer=Gigabyte&gclid=CJXpwY7PiaACFRoragodZzSaYA

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#94
In reply to #92

Re: tab completion for commands

02/23/2010 6:39 PM

this is another command line resource, not as easy to read as the above, but I notice he starts with tab completion and a command called "echo" which I haven't used - both of these features are to help to avoid problems due to a missed space, spello or trying to run something that isn't there. These are all fatal errors in a command, and the longer the command, the more chance of missing some little thing - most common cause of failure to execute as expected.

I was encouraged to get the habit of tab completion and it does help, as well as saving a lot of keystrokes.

On times when nothing works, over and over, I recommend a BEER or something completely relaxing and distracting (digging stumps and burning brush, you say?)

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#95
In reply to #90

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 10:53 PM
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#96
In reply to #95

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 11:00 PM

I got stuck on the need for a static IP address in my quest for a network boot

wondering if I can use a simple network switch in stead of a the modem/router combo that's keeping me from a network boot?

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#97
In reply to #79

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 11:10 PM

What you describe could occur or result from a hard boot and Canada has greater issues with malware than US of A. Linux is the easiest of the main three MS, MAC and Linux to hack MAC is next and MS being the toughest. With Linux if someone and not even a pro wants in you're a sitting duck but anyhow this is the cure

Reboot into your BIOS and disable the onboard audio.
Reboot and uninstall the Realtek audio drivers.
Reboot and delete any of the Audio/Multimedia devices.
Reboot again to BIOS and enable the onboard audio.
Install this driver: http://majorgeeks.com/Realtek_High_D...P03_d4902.html
I believe that contains the UAA but just in case: kb888111xpsp2.exe


Reboot when finished installing.

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#98
In reply to #37

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/23/2010 11:56 PM

I missed your answer earlier, and I think you're right ANY flavor of Linux should be forgiving as far as loading the hard drive on one machine and moving it to another. As I said earlier we use to use the same image to load multiple machines with windows 98.

I'm sure Microsoft figured this out and intentionally made it as difficult as possible starting with windows 2000.

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#99
In reply to #98

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/24/2010 12:19 AM

I struck out on finding a pc cd to notebook cd card extender adapter. no 12volt on a notebook I guess?

which makes a HDD adapter, look like a better option.

still a couple of weeks away from money

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#100
In reply to #97

Re: Installing an Operating System without a CD

02/24/2010 3:11 AM

I don't know why you think linux is easiest to hack. But either way, everyone should use a firewall, even with linux it's a basic necessity in these days.

In Ubuntu it's easy to get a firewall, just apt-get install firestarter.

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