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Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 7:14 AM

I have a hinge on a car door. The car is a one off. Everything works ok, except there is a little bit of play in the hinge, resulting in movement of the door. Could anyone come up with ways of reducing the play. I've tightened up the screw, but that has not reduced the play enough. The light blue is Aluminium, The green is Phosphor Bronze and the pink is hardened Steel. I do not have enough room to put thrust bearings or the like in as there are other things around the hinge. It is quite tightly packaged.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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#1

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 7:58 AM

Aside from adding washers on the hinge shaft (if that can be done) have you considered a rubber pad on or around the hinge that is compressed when the door is closed, thus minimizing the movement of the door -- at least, while the door is closed? You might also look at the door's gasket to make sure it's providing a tight seal.

Just a thought...

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 8:03 AM

All is nice and tight and good when the door is closed. It's the movement in the door when it is open and causes a problem when the door is being closed.

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#3

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 8:06 AM

Sounds like the door itself is misaligned from the door aperture. Is this adjustable on your model?

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#4

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 8:13 AM

Two options come to mind. One time consuming and expensive. The other just a band aid.

If you can get the hinge apart, have the shaft knurled to increase the OD, then machined to the desired diameter.

The other is to shim between the bottom hinge plate and door so that the locking side of the door is brought back up to the proper level to allow closure without interference. When open, the door will still wobble, but it will close properly.

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#5

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 8:20 AM

The door fits perfectly when it is closed and the person closing the door pushes it exactly horizontally(Without any upward or downward force). The problem is when the door is open it can be bounced. People are always playing with the door(Human nature i suppose).

The door skin flexes and I already have a solution for that. I'm trying to remove as much play from the hinge assembly as well. I have spacer plates and adjustment on the bolts, so I can align the door perfectly. It's just the play or wobble that's stopping it closing when the person closes the door. The other door doesn't have this play in it and is very good at closing.

When i look at the hinge when the door is open on the awkward side I can see a little movement(Just). It's this that becomes quite large when magnifide by the long(ish) door.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 9:27 AM

You mention another door without this complaint. Have you investigated the differences between the hinges of the two doors? This may yield some information.

If the radial load is large, there may be some deformation that is not readily apparent.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 9:49 AM

The hinges, before they went onto the car were measured but not recorded) and assembled. They appeared to be exactly the same. without a door hanging off them, they were both tight and without and wobble.

i think the shaft is not tight enough on the aluminium bit of the hinge. This needs tightening up. I might look at putting a chamfer on the steel insert and a chamfered washer of some sort to locate it together.

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#8

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 10:04 AM

If just alignment issues realign the door. Open the door loosen the bolts on the hinge just enough that you can move it up and down but it stays. Check how it closes. After you get it aligned tighten them back down.

If the pivot bushing or bolt is worn out here is what it details to fix it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVVozUkfDO4

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 2:15 PM

Any reason you can think of to not just take the door off?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 2:17 PM

There are probably wires for window, mirror control...

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#11

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 4:04 PM

Assuming that the "leaves" of the hinge are screwed tightly to the door and frame, I would suspect some looseness in the bushings or wear in the pin. I would imagine that the pin is meant to turn within the phosphor bronze bushings. Can you get new ones and press them into place?

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 5:12 PM

There are probably wire cutters for that.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 5:33 PM

Another line item for our LynDoor Industries™ catalog. Cuts the wire and installs both a male and female connector to the respective wire end with a single squeeze of our ingenious tool. A must have for every handy man or woman around ther globe, no toolbox is complete without one.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 5:38 PM

Goes along with our BozoHoser Hose™ cut-n-splice kit. Available in either QD or threaded connector models.

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#15
In reply to #11

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 11:01 PM

I would suspect that the pin is worn.I have similar trouble with Peugeot 504 and 505 door hinges and the pins in these are large spring pins which are not easy to get at, have had to make curved punches to knock out the pins and replace same with new pins.The bottom ones on the Peugeots cannot be knocked out all the way they only go so far and then have to be cut off using small cut off discs in a dremel

You may have to look at something similar on your job and get the pin out and replace it even if you have to dismantle just to measure and then make and replace with a new pin

the ones in the Pugs come out all stepped from the wear but are much better after replacement

Cheers

Peugeot man

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#16

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/02/2011 11:46 PM

Replace the hinge pin with a roll pin which is pressed into the hinge.

Peugeot use this on all their door hinges and it works well.

The roll pins do wear eventually (10 to 20 years depending on usage) and are simply then replaced with a new one to bring the door action back to as new.

Bill

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 4:42 AM

Hinge pin removers are available if the solution is to replace the pin.

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#18

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 4:51 AM

It's probably in there somewhere. I haven't had the time to read all the posts, but if you can't make Lyn's methodology work you have no alternative to taking the door from the vehicle and replace the hinge bearings(bushes). You MUST be able to remove the door and/or hinges.

Cheers,

Stu

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 7:19 AM

GA: replace the aluminium pin, preferably with something that isn't aluminium.

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#20
In reply to #14

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 7:25 AM

One sale you guys won't get there is already a plug there some where.

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#21
In reply to #9

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 7:33 AM

Yeah don't have to waste time lining it up to get it bolted back on it's already in position. If you pull it off you may need help. Little harder to hold it up and put the bolts back in by yourself.

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#22

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 8:01 AM

All the car door hinges I've seen (and worked on) are adjustable. Both where the hinges bolts to the bodywork and to the door.

So you can adjust

- the height

- the angle (ie the height of hinge side of the door relative to the latch side)

- how far into the frame the door goes at the hinge end, at top and bottom (to look right and give the correct compression of the rubber seal)

- the horizontal position of the door in the frame

Also the latch mechanism is adjustable, the part on the door and the part on the frame. With this you can adjust how far into the frame the door goes at the latch end, and ensure the latch parts meet correctly.

Wear isn't usually a problem as the door will drop to the bottom of the play.

There are a lot of variables and you often have to think a bit about what you're doing, but I've not had a case where it couldn't be sorted. And it's very satisfying to get it fixed when the door has been closing badly.

Cheers........Codey

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#23

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 8:17 AM

What car is this for? This was a common problem on the Mini & some other cars so there may already be solutions out there.

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#24

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/03/2011 2:09 PM

Do you have one or two hinges on each door?

If only one, thats the main problem, add another one to each door.....

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 6:38 AM

I agree, maybe you could redesign to use an additional hinge? The aluminum pin is suspect in my mind.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 6:43 AM

I have just checked and it's a stainless steel pin not Aluminium.

I'm going to get the door off and get the bushes remade to fit to a closer tolerance than before.

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#27

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 6:55 AM

Make the new bushes eccentric with a much larger flange. You can then rotate the bush to the point where it works well and then fasten ( hence the reason for suggesting the larger flange ). I cannot begin to suggest how to do the fastening but i'm sure you can work it out.

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#28
In reply to #10

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 7:28 AM

Looks to me like the sort of hinge you'd get on a 'Mog' or a Lotus open wheeler.

Maybe Panther?

Hey! OP! What is it?

Cheers,

Stu.

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#29
In reply to #26

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 8:13 AM

You didn't answer AndyG's question about how many hinges, but if the drawing is to scale it looks like only ~ 80mm between the bushes, and one hinge like that wouldn't support much of a door.

Are you sure no adjustment is possible? If there is I think you could cure the problem with less trouble than remaking bushes, and without taking the door off.

Cheers.......Codey

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 8:33 AM

The car is a one off. Isn't even named yet.

The hinge assembly is plenty strong to support the door. The door weighs very little. it just needs a mod to remove the play in the hinge assembly or correctly sized bushes for the assembly.

It's all a bit moot though. I have tried to remove the hinges and the hole is too small. Since the body has gone on after the hinges. I will have to remove the play from the door and hope that makes the movement small enough to be acceptable.

Thanks anyway.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 8:56 AM

OK thanks

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/04/2011 9:21 AM

Having only one hinge is mechanically a bad design, which is why, you see it VERY seldom, in fact, I have never seen a car door on only one hinge. I bet there is one somewhere though.....!!!

If you can only have a single hinge, it has to be designed to carry the weight of 100 doors, it also has to have ball or roller bearings, be sealed against the weather and be fully adjustable for height and reach. It would be very cost intensive....

NO MATTER HOW STRONG THE HINGE IS AND NO MATTER HOW LIGHT THE DOOR IS.

If you are a mechanical engineer, you need to go back to school and learn basic mechanic's of a lever......High school stuff!

I certainly would not want to be driven or drive in a car designed by someone who lacks this very basic knowledge, who knows what else is badly designed......

The second hinge does not have to be of a particular size or quality, maybe a smaller one can be fitted as long as it has the same "reach" as the other one......

Also, one hinge on its own, will always wear quickly and forever be in need of adjustment.

If you are stuck with one hinge, "come hell or high water", then make a little ramp under the door and a small, adjustable height, roller in the door, to bring the door up to the level required each time its closed.....

Something like this:-

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#33

Re: Play in a Hinge

02/06/2011 2:36 PM

replace the pins. that's what everyone else does.

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