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Anonymous Poster

Bio diesel

04/17/2007 11:11 PM

Why do we not hear about castor bean oil and hemp oil for bio diesal and cellulose from hemp for ethanol . Corn is a net loser . Also has anyone thought about compressing c02 and filling car tires? It would use up a lot I bet.

Clint Price Ventex LLC

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#1

Re: Bio diesel

04/17/2007 11:48 PM

Theoretically, any vegetable oil can be used for biodiesel. In reality, thicker, more viscous oil has a higher glycerine content, which will reduce your yield output. Also, while polyunsaturated oil can also be used, in reality, you will need to service your car more frequently to remove the accumulated polymer build-up. Saturated oils such as peanut oil poses no such problems. Finally, it's not a good idea to use compressed CO2 to fill tires, because when CO2 depressurizes (as in a leak), it absorbs a great deal of heat from the surroundings. This will probably freeze the tire, possibly making so brittle as to cause it to shatter with possibly fatal effects to the driver.

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#2

Re: Bio diesel

04/18/2007 4:10 AM

Also has anyone thought about compressing c02 and filling car tires?

Yes - until the tyre deflates...

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#3

Re: Bio diesel

04/18/2007 6:14 PM

Most of the people I have seen blog on about bio diesel use used cooking oil because it is either free of very low cost.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Bio diesel

04/18/2007 11:45 PM

This is for all Bio-diesel advoctes,my quistion is How the by products of bio-diesel combustion like Nox and particulates are to be handled with emision regulations getting tighter every year both EPA and EEC norms demands control of Nox and particulates to tuch almost zero levels for both mobile and stationery engines.as it is with diesel fueled engines both non road including diesel engie driven electrical power generators, high way engine manafacturing cost and R&D costs to meet the emission standards becoming un echonomical and time consuming!can some experts on Bio-diesel through some light?on bio-diesel and and its application for future.

CRM

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Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 12:49 AM

Have a look at journeytoforever.com those guys know everything.

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#6

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 1:46 AM

Mr. Price ,

I have also wondered why Sugar Beets , Sweet Sogrum (I think it is called ?) & Sweet Potatos are not toughted as the crop to grow for syn - fuels production . We sure can grow those easier than corn, I have not even been able to plant my little 5 acres this year because of the drought & freeze cost many their corn crops this year already. I have heard, that with Beets & Potatos you have a longer season to start the crop & harvest it too.

Just a thought about discussion groups: Yahoo is full of Bio - Diesel groups too.

Cheers

Bond

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#7

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 2:33 AM

I would guess that as CO2 is much heavier than air, the unsprung weight of the car would increase, leading to less adhesion to the road when going over bumps.

The usual thing to do when improving a cars roadholding is to try and reduce this weight, not increase it!!

The use of aftermarket aluminium wheels is flawed, because most people buy wheels that are wider, and due to the limited strength of aluminium over steel it has to be much thicker, the actual weight of the alumium wheel and tyre is usually far greater than the steel wheel and tyre it was replacing!!!

This can lead to rather unnerving characteristics of roadholding when nearing the limits on cornering.

Best advice is to only buy an aluminium wheel in the exact same size as the original steel wheel and weigh it before buying! (Also do not forget that the gas used to fill the tyre weighs quite a lot too!!) It will still look nice and pretty! You can also re-use the original tyres if not already worn out of course.

That way, the roadholding characteristics will be improved provided that the wheel is lighter than steel, but not made too much worse if it is still a bit heavier!! Even a pound weight less will make quite measurable improvements.

Wide heavy wheels cause, in extreme conditions, sudden beakaway with no prior warning. You could go offroad.

Furthermore, as the tyres wear, aquaplaning will start much earlier under the same conditions than a standard steel wheel, so the wide tyres will need replacing earlier in the tread wear thickness stakes. Wider tyres are generally more expensive too.....as well as needing more fuel to overcome their roll resistance!!

Very little good can be said for wide Alu wheels on a normal road car in the long run....

.....of course few would agree with me I expect and they will tell how they travel faster and safer with their recently bought, expensive wise wheels!! The industry has done a good sales job over the years and many believe it fully!! Wait till it rains and the tyres are down to less than 4mm of tread......then another story comes out!!

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#8

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 4:02 AM

In the State of Piaui, Brazil, they have been growing castor beans for biofuel. However, this crop is less productive than the jatropha and palm species. In Brazil they have introduced castor crops as a way to speed production, as it is productive in less than 2 years, while palm takes between 4 to 5 years before it is productive.

Jatropha has not been accepted by the Brazilian government biodiesel program yet. Some people are growing it and there is quite a strong lobby to get it approved to be included as a crop to be subsidised by the government too. I believe we will see jatropha competing with palm in the coming years.

Whichever crop is planted, with the current technologies, there is no land capacity that can yield enough biofuel to supply the ever increasing demand for fuel.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 8:18 AM

Yes you are right, perhaps we should find a way to process human remains for power generation. There are plenty of bodies needing to be desposed of.

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#10
In reply to #2

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 9:44 AM

Reminds me of a caller to the PBS show, "Car Talk". He suggested that we go around to junk yards and let the air out of old tires. The reasoning being that the air quality had to be better when the tires were filled up and by freeing this locked up good quality air we would improve our air quality a little. (it was tongue-in-cheek)

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#11

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 9:47 AM

In fact castor oil is one of the prime candidates for Biodiesel. However, castor oil finds use in the manufacture of lubricants and other value added products. Hence, commercially it is much more preferred for value addition than as biodiesel due to the high raw material cost which will make the biodiesel from castor oil much more expensive than equivalent seeds like Jathropha. Brazil is already using / intend to use Castor oil for biodiesel.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 9:54 AM

Its a good idea to look at starch producing species like beet sugar, sweet sorgham etc. In reality any material having a combination of hydrogen and carbon in their molecular structures are good candidtaes for the production of fuels. There is a lot of work going on and very soon we will commercial systems available for converting the vegetable wastes, starch, cellulose and other materials being converted to liquid fuels and methane gas etc. Gentlemen, the day is very close.

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 9:59 AM

Its a very interesting thought. Eventhough, it is not necessary to look at human bodies for disposal and generating fuels, its easy to look at human excreta as a source of continuous power. There is a commercial system being developed ready for launch this summer for converting the biological waste such as chicken manure, human waste, compost from the MSW dump sites into liquid fuels as well as gaseous fuels.

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Anonymous Poster
#14

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 10:04 AM

I have seen the damage first hand of bio-diesel used in Detroit Diesel engines. Because bio diesel does not have the same lubricating properties as reular diesel, injector failures were common. The injectors would sieze, snapping rockers etc. Bio diesel was not compatable the fuel lines. Corrsosion of the lines and check valves on the vehicles occured causing many failures. Note that the change to ultra-low sulfur diesel is causing the same lubrication related problems in older diesel engines that were not designed to run with the decreased lubricity.

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#15

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 10:05 AM

Nitrogen for tires, we need to lock up the CO2 as a solid, some sort of carbonate!

Hemp because of "war on drugs", is taboo

Links for diesel emmisions

http://www.westcoastdiesel.org/index.htm

http://www.biodieselnow.com/default.aspx

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/10/16/8390259/index.htm

Here's a quote from the above article

Mercedes is furthest along. In the E 320 Blutec, a trap stores and purges smog-forming nitrogen oxides. A second filter captures particulate matter - diesel's black calling card, long linked to cancer, asthma, and other health risks. Then ammonia compounds are used to convert nitrogen oxides to water and nitrogen. What will consumers notice? It goes fast, it delivers a knockout 38 highway miles per gallon, there's no smell, and it costs just $1,000 more than the gas model, vs. Lexus's $8,000 premium for its GS hybrid sedan.

To pass the strictest air-quality rules, part two of Mercedes' plan involves adding a small tank of urea, an ammonia-like fluid that further neutralizes pollution. The EPA's Oge says that while the agency has been leery of emissions systems that require maintenance, it will back Mercedes' approach.

By the time Mercedes' 50-state diesels launch, the competition will be heated. In September, Honda - a company long associated with hybrids - announced a catalytic-converter breakthrough that requires no fluid additives, saying it will deliver 50-state models by 2009. And GM recently showed off a burly, ultra-clean V-8 diesel that should arrive around the same time. VW, Audi, Nissan, BMW, and Chrysler Group also have versions in the works.

The question is, Are Americans ready for diesel's second coming? "We've always been a proponent," says Mercedes' E-Class chief, Bart Herring. "But changing the perspective of the rest of the market will take time and effort." Honda's research showed that older Americans are more skeptical of diesel. "Younger people are more open to it," says John Watts, Honda's manager for product planning. "They're more our target of who diesel would appeal to - cars with lots of power yet low fuel consumption."

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#16

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 11:18 AM

Because Economical and Political Issues are involve, more than scientific reasons.

Money is what moves the world. Reason why green technologies where unders shadows more than 100 years ago.

Have a nice and green day!!

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#17
In reply to #4

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 2:29 PM

The Bio-diesel plants all have a complete vapor recorvery system custom designed and built for their needs. Per gov't regs.

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Anonymous Poster
#18

Re: Bio diesel

04/19/2007 6:54 PM

Pro racing cars use nitrogen in their tyres because it is safer. The plant extracts you ask about are more energy intensive to process. It is better to use up waste cooking oil for now. As for the point made else where about the problems with bio diesel I have looked at all the evidence and so far the industry comment is in favour. The problems occur with older engines not because of the lubricant problems as stated, yes the hoses may need replacing and the injector problems may well be due to the dissolved rubber getting into the fuel mix. The new low sulfur fuels do pose a problem in older engines and the advice is to add some biodiesel! 5%. The bio fuels have to be correctly processed and it may be people doing their own that causes failures of injectors. The car engine manufacturers are now obliged to make their engines compatible with bio fuels.

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#19

Re: co2 car tires

04/19/2007 9:16 PM

hi folks ;

we have used co2 , r22 refrigerant [befer the no vent days ],

nitrogen to inflate truck tires 16 '' , 15'' with no problem /

the cold item mentioned does happen when ever one of my rubber hose freezes , if it moves it wiil crack and leak / the tire stem could do the same thing when filling with co2 / i usually fill slowly or in stages to prevent the valve stem from getting to cold / the co2 is leaving the bottle at 109 below 0 F /

as fer the tire deflating should be no more problem than std air /

the other gases have DIFFERENT exspandsion rates vs air / so as the tire heats up the tire could be come over pressured / this could cause a failure /
another problem using co2 on a long term basis is carbonic acid / mix co2 with water you make carbonic acid/ this would corrode the inside of the rims , steel or alum / so when a hard turn is made or pothole is hit / the rim would collapse / an accident /

so far we have had no problem in the short term use with other gases , bailed me out of many troubles with tires /

in conclusion ; STAY WITH COMPRESSED AIR WHEN POSSIBLE /
klystron

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#20

Re: Bio diesel

04/20/2007 2:45 AM

About CO2 for tires I can say nothing but I had to do quite a lot of research on biofuels recently. Everything depends on the availibility and sustainibility of your feed. And in this also many countries have different alternatives they could follow. Corn might be a good option in some areas but if you don't even have enough for food production you really shouldn't be burning it. Also the starch content is lower than the sugar crops like sugarcane and sugar beet. The problems with these crops again are conditions needed to grow it as well as space requirements. As I see it, when a decision is to be made about a specific feed crop you need to be very very careful. Do you use something thats currently in oversupply but might drop later? Do you use a new crop? The problem with the first question is obvious and as I mentioned earlier... we really shouldn't burn food. The problem with the second choice has the same long term effects. If you use land for feed crop cultivation that had previously been used for food production, we're burning food again. Some good ideas regarding these space problems are the cultivation of jatropha in semi-arid regions (untillable for normal crops) or even the use of diesel producing algae, but both of these ideas also have their own operational and production difficulty. For small scale production cooking oil would work perfectly. As to the lubrication problems, no-one ever said it was gonna be easy. Engine technology has been changing steadily for many years and we can't expect everything to suddenly work on a completely different fuel. Buy new vehicles... not only will they work but theyll also look nice and shiny :) On a more serious note though... What about lubrication additives or fuel blends?

To conclude I just want to say that these observations are all made from my own subjective South-African point of view. What works here might not work anywhere else and vice-versa. But the fact that we're in definite trouble concerning energy use is true and solutions need to be found. As soon as a decision has been made there has to be a general consensus to actually do what as been decided or the industry will only fall onto its back and die a long and lingering death. (Even if its fast it'll still be painful)

I for one would like to continue breathing for a little while. Let's not screw up the planet just yet.

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#21
In reply to #14

Re: Bio diesel

04/20/2007 7:48 AM

Here's some stuff from the biodiesel board

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/faqs/default.shtm

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Lubricity.PDF

Can I use biodiesel in my existing diesel engine?
Biodiesel can be operated in any diesel engine with little or no modification to the engine or the fuel system. Biodiesel has a solvent effect that may release deposits accumulated on tank walls and pipes from previous diesel fuel storage. The release of deposits may clog filters initially and precautions should be taken. Ensure that only fuel meeting the biodiesel specification is used

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