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Composite Oil Pan

07/19/2013 5:22 AM

Composite oil pans are better in terms of cost, weight and NVH but then Steel will dent and Aluminum / Plastic will break..

Can anybody give me some study material for composite oil pan FEA analysis and Validation through testing?

I wish to compare Steel Vs Composite oil pan analytically..

But seems that FEA of composite is a preety tricky subject..

Thanks!

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Guru

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#1

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/19/2013 1:33 PM

How do you know that, "Composite oil pans are better in terms of cost, weight and NVH "?

And the make-up of the composite would be critical to any analysis performed.

Your use of the term "plastic" here indicates a lack of knowledge of the subject at hand. There are hundreds of different types of "plastic", all with unique properties.

And by adding fillers, you can make any "plastic" a composite material.

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Guru
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#2

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/20/2013 7:52 AM

You are absolutely correct. Metal oil pans can dent. The next time your oil pan is attacked by a rock, be thankful that it was an energy absorbing dent and not a hole that would have destroyed your engine.

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Associate

Join Date: Dec 2011
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#3

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/20/2013 7:29 PM

There are a great many different composite materials, each with different characteristics. To save weight polymer-fiber composites can be used to replace steel in motor vehicles, but oil pans are problematic. Most polymers cannot take the heat. Some that can, such as phenolic, are not tough enough. Oil pans are usually bolted to the bottom of an engine where they are often struck by road debris. Carbon fiber is also not very tough. Fiberglass-reinforced high-temperature thermoplastics, such as Ultem, are better than most other composites. Aluminum and steel are much less expensive, though, and withstand even higher temperatures. Steel is notoriously tough, and both metals tend to dent rather than break. Metals in general and aluminum in particular conduct heat better than composites, which helps to cool the oil.

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Commentator
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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/22/2013 2:49 AM

How do you know that, "Composite oil pans are better in terms of cost, weight and NVH "?

I don't know, I have read that in some articles.

I guess my selection of wordings were wrong... My Bad...

Your use of the term "plastic" here indicates a lack of knowledge of the subject at hand.

That is exactly why I posted this question Sir...

Any suggestions for FEA analysis and validation of composites, Sir?

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/22/2013 2:56 AM

I can see your point, and that is why I can not understand why anybody would like to buy an engine with "Composite Oil pan"?

When searched, they talk about high strength-to-weight ratio and stiffness-to-weight ratio and Also lesser noise (expected to dampen engine noise ).

Also, composites said to have necessary impact strength.

But yet I have seen this as a serious concern for end customer.

My aim is to analyze composite oil pan through FEA.. and m facing problem in validating the FEA reasults with test data..

any suggestions?

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/22/2013 2:59 AM

Yes.. you are absolutely right..

But still Mercedes-Benz C Class is using DuPont™ Zytel┬« Nylon Polymer Oil Pan Module.

Why is it so? I guess (rather hope) that they must have tested this enough before implementing..

Is it Fit-For -Market stratergy? (Low cost design)

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Guru
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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/22/2013 7:46 AM

Other than thermal considerations, my primary objection to a polymer oil pan is projectile damage. If the vehicle you describe has an integrated projectile shield such as might be used for streamlining purposes, some of my objections becore mute. However, I don't think it's wise to expose a polymer oil pan to the direct affects of projectiles.

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Guru

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#8

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/22/2013 9:15 AM

The oil pan is an important part pf the cooling system, not just a resevouir for extra lubricant. If I am correct in visualizing the merc you are talking about, then what they are using is a semi dry sump system where the oil pan is not really an oil pan as we know it. The extra oil is carried in a separate resevoir and the "pan" is really a collection sump for oil return with the actual pump, filter, and cooler remotely mounted.

This eliminates the pan hanging down under the car in cases where they have crammed more engine into the engine compartment than it can really hold. It also allows for more controlled cooling of the oil since certain modern oils/synthetics now have recommended temperature ranges. It offers better weight distribution and a few other advantages.

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Power-User

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/22/2013 12:45 PM

If you look at the entire underside design of the Merc you will likely find that the oil pan is not in the normal air flow under the car. There is some sort of cover (probably also plastic) directing air flow to reduce aerodynamic drag and road noise. Therefore the pan is protected from projectile impact and is not as important in oil cooling so weight and cost reduction can become more important.

Have you fully defined the design criteria for your pan in the context of the surrounding area of the vehicle, and it's intended use and market?

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Commentator
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#10

Re: Composite Oil Pan

07/23/2013 3:27 AM

okay.. here I should clarify few things..

I am not designing oil pan, I am involved only in FEA of that pan. But I would like to know about it just because it helps me understand my analysis better. I am facing problems in validating the oil pan. Analytical results are not matching with test data and hence I am in search of documents for FEA of composite oil pan.

Also, I am curious to know, which testings are required for composite oil pan to prove that it is capable of sustaining on field.

Disclaimer:- I am relatively new engineer than all of you. So please be paitent with my silly questions!

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