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EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

Posted July 28, 2015 3:20 PM by Bayes

New Physics or Complicated Error?

About three months ago I wrote a blog entry about NASA's investigation of an EM drive that produced results that seemed to contradict conservation of momentum.

NASA's Investigation Into EM Drives - What if?

Yesterday, Martin Tajmar, professor and chair for Space Systems at the Dresden University of Technology, presented experimental results confirming earlier results from NASA on EM drive propulsion at the American Institute for Aeronautics' Propulsion and Energy Forum in Orlando.

Here is an article regarding that new research:

Scientists Confirm "Impossible" EM Drive Propulsion

Here is another article with exactly the same facts:

No, German Scientists Have Not Confirmed the "Impossible" EM Drive

The Truth is Somewhere In Between

What the German scientists have done is reproduce results (NASA's results). Truly, nothing is ever completely confirmed in science, but that doesn't mean that reproduced results are unimportant. Sure, the first article is a bit overzealous in its euphoria; I would say most physicists would agree this propulsion is still most likely some weird noise side effect. However, the second article is definitely overzealous in its condemnation. NASA and the Dresden University of Technology are both well regarded institutions. Results have been reproduced. Certainly this suggests the EM drive should be tested further. Scientists shouldn't ignore something because it "shouldn't exist", especially when results are reproduced.

The consequences of an EM drive would be immense for space travel. Certainly look into it if you're interested. I still personally believe that this is most likely some sort of noise effect. I hope I'm wrong. Still, it is an interesting story worth watching.

-R

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#1

Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/28/2015 4:06 PM

My microwave oven has space flight capability??

I think I did see an alien space ship shopping in Walmart the other day....

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#2

Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/28/2015 7:03 PM

The neutrino was "discovered" to save the conservation of momentum...

https://pippagoldenberg.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/neutrinos/

If this thrust is real, something like that must be happening here. Something has to be carrying the momentum away...dark matter?

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/28/2015 7:48 PM
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#4
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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/28/2015 11:01 PM

'can produce a locally mass negative region of space-time that could stabilize a wormhole .................'

Keep an eye out for MH370 while you are down there, will you?

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#6
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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 10:42 AM

But the wormhole generated is TINY, on the order of 'It might take a light (small) atom, it might only take subatomic particles.'

So this is still out of the question:

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 2:19 PM
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#12
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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 2:40 PM

If any one part of that should have a serial number the answer to where it came should be forthcoming.

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#19
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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/30/2015 10:20 AM

was it carried by waves from crash site to there or put there by someone to confuse/misdirect investigators?.

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/30/2015 11:21 AM

It was stated a year and a half ago that if the plane did indeed crash where they suspected it did that eventually it would be likely that pieces would wash up on the East coast of Africa.

A salvage "expert" stated that the barnacles and condition appear consistent with an object in the water for a year and half.

A Boeing rep in this country stated that it "appears" to be a "flapaleron" from a 777.

There has only ever been three 777 lost and only one in the Indian ocean.

The French are transporting it to Toulouse for analysis.

That is all we know from the news over here as of this morning when I left for work.

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#5
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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/28/2015 11:19 PM

Canlight be bent by sound or magnetic waves?

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#7
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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 11:39 AM

Short answer: no.

Photons do not have a charge and are massless, but a highly energetic photon can create an electron-positron pair in an magnetic field.

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 11:55 AM

What happens inside an oscilloscope?

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 12:37 PM

In an oscilloscope, electrons get deflected by electric fields. Inside an old television (CRT), electrons get deflected by a magnetic field.

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 2:44 PM

As Rixter says, electrons are what are used to paint a picture in the old tube days.

The inside of the display tube is coated with a phosphor and when an electron strikes the phosphor it excites it and causes it to glow at the point of impact, where photons are emitted from that excited phosphor site.

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 4:22 PM

Not directly, but... If some form of matter is involved, then sound or magnetic waves can affect the matter which in turn can bend the light. The faraday effect is caused by magnetism affecting matter, which in turn affects the light polarization. Another example is an extremely high frequency sound can set up acoustic waves in a transparent medium which would act as a diffraction grating to deflect a light beam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acousto-optic_modulator

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 10:26 PM

Thank you,where these principles are used?.

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/30/2015 6:39 AM

Basically pulse shaping and modulation in photonic systems. Look up "Bragg Cell".

http://www.rp-photonics.com/acousto_optic_modulators.html

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#9

Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 12:21 PM

Just because our current understanding says something is impossible doesn't mean we are right.

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#14

Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/29/2015 4:19 PM

From the descriptive used in the "Scientists Confirm "Impossible" EM Drive Propulsion":

Origin of POPPYCOCK (Merriam Webster)

Dutch dialect pappekak, literally, soft dung, from Dutch pap pap + kak dungFirst Known Use: 1865

Related to POPPYCOCK

Synonyms
applesauce [slang], balderdash, baloney (also boloney), beans, bilge, blah (also blah-blah), blarney, blather, blatherskite, blither, bosh, bull [slang], bunk, bunkum (or buncombe), claptrap, codswallop [British], crapola [slang], crock, drivel, drool, fiddle, fiddle-faddle, fiddlesticks, flannel [British], flapdoodle, folderol (also falderal), folly, foolishness, fudge, garbage, guff, hogwash, hokeypokey, hokum, hoodoo, hooey, horsefeathers [slang], humbug, humbuggery, jazz, malarkey (also malarky), moonshine, muck, nerts [slang], nuts, piffle, nonsense, punk, rot, rubbish, senselessness, silliness, slush, stupidity, taradiddle (or tarradiddle), tommyrot, tosh, trash, trumpery, twaddle

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#18

Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/30/2015 9:39 AM

Ve Chermans haf known secrets of propulsion captured from crashed alien spacecraft during the war!

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Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/30/2015 2:41 PM
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#22

Re: EM Drive - German Scientists Reproduce NASA Results

07/31/2015 1:26 PM

You mean they made the same mistakes?

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