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Relativity and Cosmology

This is a Blog on relativity and cosmology for engineers and the like. My website "Relativity-4-Engineers" has more in-depth stuff.

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A complete index to the Relativity and Cosmology Blog can be viewed here: http://cr4.globalspec.com/blog/browse/22/Relativity-and-Cosmology"

Regards, Jorrie

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Gravity and the Speed of Light

Posted September 26, 2007 11:00 PM by Jorrie

There have been numerous threads and lengthy discussions on many aspects of the speed of light on CR4. One aspect that has not really been addressed is the influence of gravity on the speed of light. This thread attempts to fill that void.

It is commonly known that gravity influences the relative rates of time passage. The ratio of the time passage of an observer at distance r from a body with mass M compared to the time passage of a distant observer (in free space) is given by:

[Eq. 1]

where G is Newton's gravitational constant and c the speed of light in free space. This ratio is also denoted by √(gtt), where gtt is the 'time-time' coefficient of the Schwarzschild metric. The function is shown graphically in fig. 1 below.

Fig. 1:

It is clear that gtt approaches unity when rc2 >> GM and becomes zero when rc2 = 2GM, at the event horizon of a Schwarzschild black hole. This ratio together with the curvature of space also regulates the speed of light in Schwarzschild coordinates, as depicted and quantified in fig. 2 below.

Fig. 2:

The curve represents the curvature of space into a fictitious dimension (z). The spacing of the vertical dotted lines indicates the radial coordinate distance interval (Δr) that light travels in in every constant coordinate time interval (Δt). There are two equal effects at work: (i) the slowing of time lets light move a distance Δl = √(gtt)cΔt along the slope of space; (ii) this distance (Δl) is then projected onto the coordinate system as Δr = gttcΔt .

This is the case for light moving precisely radial relative to the mass. When the movement is precisely transverse (tangential) relative to the mass, there is no slope along the light's path and the projection is 1:1. It can hence be stated that the transverse coordinate velocity of light equals c√(gtt) while the radial coordinate velocity of light equals c gtt, which is smaller or equal to the transverse velocity, since gtt ≤ 1.

When combined in vector form, the general Schwarzschild coordinate velocity of light can be viewed as shown below, where the path of the light is making an angle θ with the radial to the mass.

Fig. 3:

In the relatively low gravitational field strengths in our solar system, the effective coordinate speed of light remains very close to c, because gtt is very, very close to unity. Even at the surface of the Sun, it deviates from unity by only one part in 236 thousand. Shapiro et al determined experimentally that a photon passing very close to the Sun from afar is delayed by about 125 microseconds for every pass.[1][2]

If the Sun happened to be a neutron star with the same mass and a radius of about 10 km, a photon grazing the star's surface would have been delayed by around 10 seconds for the same pass. At the surface of the neutron star, the transverse coordinate velocity of light will be ~0.84c and the radial coordinate velocity ~0.71c. In the case of black holes, this situation obviously goes extreme at the event horizon, with both coordinate velocities zero.

Finally, just a reminder that a local observer measuring the photon's speed over a short distance will always get the value c and nothing else. Schwarzschild coordinate velocities are those measured by distant observers, located outside of the gravitational influence of the mass. A discussion of measurements made by 'distant observers' that are still inside the gravitational influence of the massive object will be the topic of the next post in this Blog.

The floor is open for discussion.

Jorrie

[1] "Was Einstein Right?" by Clifford M. Will.

[2] Tests of Relativity from Relativity 4 Engineers.

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#1

Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/27/2007 7:49 PM

Hey Jorrie! Welcome back! How was your foray into the African Bush?

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#2
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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/28/2007 12:56 AM

Tx Eu

It was tiring but good to focus on other aspects of life for a while, e.g., when getting quite close to some of the 'big five'.

Jorrie

PS: We were in a car, about 3m from this magnificent old male lion in the wild.

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#13
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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

04/26/2018 5:27 AM

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Để có thể chơi lô đề ngày hôm nay người chơi phải chuẩn bị vốn và bạn có thể đánh dàn đề 29 con trong 8 ngày để có được tỉ lệ ăn tốt, đảm bảo có lãi. Tức là người chơi sẽ chơi nuôi trong 8 ngày, thua hay thắng vẫn chơi đủ 8 ngày để đạt được lợi nhuận cao nhất.

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Soi cầu lô miền Bắc hàng ngày hiệu quả

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Để có thể soi cầu lô xiên theo cặp người chơi sẽ cần thống kê kết quả xố số và ghi nhớ các cặp số, lô ra theo cầu.

  • Nếu hôm nay có lô 27-72 hôm sau sẽ đi cùng lô 01-10-35.
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#3

Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/28/2007 1:01 AM

Why are you calling this "the speed of light" while you yourself make it clear that the speed of light does not change? Speed is how fast something moves relative to the surrounding space.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/28/2007 1:44 AM

Hi guest. As I pointed out, the changing 'speed of light' happens in some coordinate systems (like Schwarzschild). Many scientists prefer to not talk of the speed of light that changes, but simply of a 'delay of light', but does it matter? If something is delayed, doesn't its average speed decrease?

I will show in the next Blog post that there are measurements in gravitational fields where one can deduce that the light is not delayed, but rather 'advanced', i.e., the average speed seems to be higher than c.

Jorrie

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#6
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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/28/2007 2:09 PM

Jorrie, Thank you for another interesting article.

I usually think of c, or the speed of light in a vacuum, as a constant. When light is near another mass, the "vacuum" is no longer a vacuum but filled with a near by object, mass, and associated gravity.

You have been talking about relativity which some may consider far removed from daily activities. But changes in the speed of light occur around us all the time. When light passes through a piece of glass, its properties change. If it hits the glass at an angle (not perpendicular or normal to the surface) it is bent. The measure of this bending is n, the index of refraction. Similarly, the speed (v) of light in the glass is slower by v = c/n

Also, if light is passing through a wave guide in a vacuum of no air, its speed is faster than c.

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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

10/01/2007 3:17 AM

Hi GWJ...

"Also, if light is passing through a wave guide in a vacuum of no air, its speed is faster than c."

I don't think so... The speed of light in a wave guide (vacuum) is just c (no faster than c)... The light cannot obtain a speed faster than its speed in the vacuum (e.g. c)...

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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

10/01/2007 4:24 AM

Hi GWJ. "Also, if light is passing through a wave guide in a vacuum of no air, its speed is faster than c."

I suppose it depends on what is meant by speed. If it is the speed of energy or information transfer through a waveguide, it cannot exceed c.

You may also want to look at my http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/3416/Gravity-and-the-Speed-of-Light-II

Jorrie

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#5

Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/28/2007 3:58 AM

Wellcome back Jorrie... (I wondered where you've been all these days)...

Good presentation... Fig.2 i.e. shows, nicely, how the extreme curvature of space near a Black Hole slows down the flow of time... On the event horizon the radial velocity (and general velocity) of the light becomes zero (according to an external observer fairly far away, of course)... In another point of view, this depicts the infinite expansion of time as an infinite time duration is needed for a photon to travel any finite distance (this is, also, shown in fig.1 where the dτ becomes zero on the event horizon)...

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#7

Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

09/30/2007 3:02 PM

Hi Jorrie,

I assume that after the photon passes (grazes) the neutron star, it's radial speed (as seen by a distant observer) re-accelerates back to c by the same formula.

I wonder if there is any concept that, from the perspective of a distant observer, time itself is somehow conserved. That is, the neutron star is observed to "steal" some time from the photon. Does it "give back" what it stole somehow, i.e., speed up some other event? Or does the star just continue accumulating a potentially infinite quantity of stolen time?

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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

10/01/2007 4:18 AM

Hi Jon. "I assume that after the photon passes (grazes) the neutron star, it's radial speed (as seen by a distant observer) re-accelerates back to c by the same formula."

Correct. As far as 'conservation of time' or 'beg, steal or borrow of time' is concerned, I don't know about any conservation law there. If something falls into a black hole, the hole's energy increases, but time is not energy.

Jorrie

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#11

Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

12/02/2007 11:36 PM

I'm a physician with limited math skills, but an active imagination. When a body is orbiting another mass, to maintain an orbit, its velocity increases as it moves closer to the center of the mass it's orbiting. In a similar fashion, when light is orbiting a black hole(perhaps at or just above the event horizon), what happens as light falls below this limit-does C increase, or does the photon's mass increase, or can light as we know it exist?

Tom Adams MD

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#12
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Re: Gravity and the Speed of Light

12/03/2007 2:11 AM

Hi Tom.

Very good question for a MD!

Light orbits a non-rotating black hole at 1.5 times the event horizon radius. That's the point where the circular orbital velocity equals the speed of light. The orbit is unstable and any perturbation will let the light either escape or fall into the black hole.

If it falls in, the speed of a photon remains at the speed of light (as measured locally, where the photon is). The mass of a photon is zero, but it has energy and momentum depending on its wavelength. As you surely know, the x-rays that you use in your profession have very short wavelengths and are hence very energetic photons; that's why they're dangerous...

Jorrie

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