Previous in Forum: Torque of rear axle from static condition ?   Next in Forum: Allowable Bearing Pressure
Close
Close
Close
8 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

The matter what we see.

07/24/2007 7:55 PM

New ideas about the matter and the electromagnetic waves.

A: Matters:

up to now many people are thinking that the matters what we see all around us are not only composed from solid mass. To understand it better I want to write here the relation between the mass (m) created and the electromagnetic particle from which that mass is created.

m= hf(1- v2/c2)/v2................................(1)

here h is the planks constant. f is the frequency of the photon. v is the velocity of the photon and c is the velocity of light when the light does not give or lose energy.

If now we multiply both sides of this equation by v2 we will get the following relationship:

mv2 = hf( 1- v2/c2)..............(2)

if we divide both side of this equation by 2 we get mv2/2 = hf(1- v2/c2)/2

and we know that mv2/2 is the energy equation.

From the other side we can consider equation (2) an energy equation. Then we can write that:

E= mv2 ...........................(3)

Now when v approaches to c, equation 3 will change to:

E= mc2 ..........................(4)

Equation 4 is the famous energy equation of Einstein.

If we study equation 1 we see that depending to the speed of the photon some of its energy changes to solid mass and some other still remains as the light energy. So we can say that the matter what we see is not only a solid mass. but actually it is formed of two parts. one part is the solid mass and the next part is the electro magnetic mass. this is because of this that electron exhibits both the properties, as a solid mass and electromagnetic.

One another interesting point is this. The mass in equation 1 is the mass of the moving particle. but if apply mass relativity the approximate mass what we will measure will be:

m0= m(1- v2/c2)

Here I will stop and write about the properties of the electromagnetic wave particles next time.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Commentator
Engineering Fields - Automotive Engineering - Auto+Motor=Sport

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 59
#1

Re: The matter what we see.

07/25/2007 8:41 AM

Keep it coming, my friend. Curious to see where u r going with this. The particle vs. wave theory thing had me flexing my mind before when I tried to apply both to an optimization algorithm for mirror surfaces of solar heaters.

__________________
If you can't dig it, get a backhoe!
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Retired South Africa - Member - The Rainbow-nation Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Relativity & Cosmology Popular Science - Cosmology - The Big Picture!

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 3804
Good Answers: 69
#2

Re: The matter what we see.

07/26/2007 6:27 AM

Hi Guest, interesting.

But what do you mean in your equation (1): "v is the velocity of the photon"?

The velocity of a photon is c in every inertial frame and then your equation reduces to m=0. This invalidates your derivation of E = mc2, because setting v = c invalidates the previous equations.

If you intend to assign a speed v < c to a particle with mass m, then I do not think your eq. (1) is valid for calculating mass.

Lastly, I suppose in your final, unnumbered equation, you meant: m = mo/√(1-v2/c2), where m is the 'relativistic mass' and mo the rest mass?

Jorrie

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge." -- Kahlil Gibran
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15
#3
In reply to #2

Re: The matter what we see.

07/26/2007 11:16 AM

Dear Jorrie:

First of all I want to thank you for your interest in studying my article and sending me your comments. Here I want to clarify some of the terms you had doubt about that.

1: You have said that the velocity of the photon is C in every inertial frame. This is valid when some one is working in two different inertial frames. As it is done for finding the relativity of space and time for example. Here you have two different frames. One frame is in rest and the other is in motion. But what we are talking here is to see the effect of the change in the velocity of photon on the properties of the photon in the same inertial frame. As it is clear that the velocity of the photon is changing with the change of the medium it is moving in to that. The refraction of the light is because of the change of the velocity of light. And the Maxwell's this equation that is v = 1/( ε μ )1/2 clearly show that the velocity of photon depends on the property of the medium in which it travels through. This means that the velocity of photon is changing with change of the medium. Even this has been observed in some communication laboratories that the photon acquires velocities greater than the velocity c of light.

This is the velocity v of the photon that I have mentioned in equation 1 and you had asked me for its meaning.

Now so far as E = mc2 is considered the value of C is the last limit for the velocity of the photon that the mass of the photon is zero for all the values of its velocity greater than C an equal to C. But when the velocity of the photon decreases than C, no matter how small this decrease will be, some of its energy changes to solid mass. In the mean time it is seen from this equation that some of the photon energy that is E= hf are still present in the newly formed system but now the frequency of the photon is also changed. That is why electron exhibits both the properties that is the property of the solid mass and the electromagnetic energy.

In the mean time we see that when ever solid mass is formed then the concept of space and time both come in the scene. This means that space and time both are the properties of the solid mass not the property of photon in general. It is like of the water which has different properties in different temperatures( solid, liquid and gas).

So far as the validity of m= hf(1 - v2/c2)/ v2 is considered it has been observed in the atomic nuclear laboratories that when a high energy light enters a high electric and magnetic fields it gives hydrogen atom based on this relation and the pair production conjunction.

I think if I would have written the moving particle mass instead of relativistic mass it would have been better. With this I correct that mistake. Thank you for your mentioning.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#4
In reply to #3

Re: The matter what we see.

07/26/2007 9:24 PM

Hi,

I found your posts interesting. This is the first explanation I have heard for the dual properties of the photon. Give us some more insight if you can.

S

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15
#8
In reply to #4

How the God created the world? By Albert Einstein.

08/12/2007 2:56 PM

In order to answer this question of Albert Einstein who wanted to know How the God Created the world? some one has to go to the holly books sent by All mighty Allah to the human being. As you and every other person know this fact that the Almighty God has sent his messengers time to time to the earth to explain his massages to the rest of the people of the world. So that the people of the world perform accordingly in order to establish a meaningful life, pros pores society and peaceful environment free of any tension and stresses. For Example bible was sent to Jose's peace be upon him and Quraan Karim was sent to Mohammad peace be upon him.

I want to provide you with the answer from Quraan Karim. In this book as I have understood all the world has been created from the light of Almighty Allah. So from this we can deduct this idea that the light energy can change to mass. As I have derived the relation between the energy of light and the mass. In the mean time it has been told that the Almighty is an eternal and uncreated essence. He is present every where at any time. The passage of time doesn't affect him. This means that he is out of the time and space domain. Thus it is another way explaining the theory of relativity. So far as the property of light energy is considered beside its property that can make every thing visible without any harm, it is destructive effects( as explained in the story of Moose's peace be upon him( in this story it is said that when Moose's asks the Almighty God that he wants to see the holly God directly, The Almighty God told him that he can not see him. Then the Almighty Allah told him to look to the mountain where he wants to emit his light on it. When the light of Allah fell on the said mountain the mountain got destroyed completely and was turned as a plain surface. The Moose's himself fell comatose). In the holly quraan other properties of light has also been explained . And that is this; When Ibrahim peace be upon him destroyed the sculptures of worship of the atheists, then the atheists ordered to establish a big fire and burn Ibrahim peace be upon him through that fire. After Ibrahim peace be upon him was thrown in that big fire he was not burnt and was safe. Then to answer this question that how Ibrahim peace be upon him was not burn in that fire some one has to go and study the properties of electromagnetic waves or the photon. And thus it can be answered by the relation of the velocity of light and the its power, v=ce-E/hf. In this relation it is clear that when the velocity of the photon increase then it gains energy from the outside. It means that it cools its surrounding media. But when its speed decreases it gives some of its energy to the out side medium. But when its speed decreases then the speed C( for which the exchange of the power of photon is zero) then some if its energy is changed to a mass in accordance to the relation, m=hf(1-v2/c2)/v2. As observed in the nuclear atomic labs when a strong photon enters in a strong electro magnetic field it converts to hydrogen atom. Now the formation of atom takes place under the pair-production conjunction. As Madam Ha-wa wife of Adam peace be upon him was created after Adam from Adam himself.

Now in holly Qurran it is said that first of all the earth was created within two phases. Then the mountains, balancing forces and all other things were created on the surface of the earth within four phases. After the creation of the earth, all around which were smoke, the seven layers of skies were formed in two phase.

In the mean time it was said to the earth and the skies to come together, if they want, or by force, if they do not wish,. And the earth came close to the skies with out any outside force as her desire.

Now this is a good and logic explanation. Now it is seen that all the links for the creation of this nature is prepared.

But so far as the creation of Adam is concerned it is created by All might Allah as a free and separate creation.

Now with this some one can think of two kind of creation. one a series of a family of creatures and the next as the independent creation. and so on.

If you want more detail information and the complete link of the creation and other governing roles for the creation of this nature you can study the holly Quraan. It is obvious that studying the Arabic version is most better. Because due to the less information of the translators some of the translations or some parts of its translation are misleading. Therefore I urge that The holly Quraan is really an excellent source for scientists of any branch.

Regards.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Retired South Africa - Member - The Rainbow-nation Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Relativity & Cosmology Popular Science - Cosmology - The Big Picture!

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 3804
Good Answers: 69
#5
In reply to #3

Re: The matter what we see.

07/26/2007 11:38 PM


Hi sayedrahimhaidari, you're welcome.

"So far as the validity of m= hf(1 - v2/c2)/ v2 is considered it has been observed in the atomic nuclear laboratories that when a high energy light enters a high electric and magnetic fields it gives hydrogen atom based on this relation and the pair production conjunction."

Can you give me a citation (reference) where I can research this equation and its application?

Jorrie

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge." -- Kahlil Gibran
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Retired South Africa - Member - The Rainbow-nation Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Relativity & Cosmology Popular Science - Cosmology - The Big Picture!

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 3804
Good Answers: 69
#6
In reply to #3

Re: The matter what we see.

07/27/2007 12:40 AM

Hi sayedrahimhaidari

Further to my previous request: while you're at it, also give me something more on how light energy is converted into a hydrogen atom. I know about gamma rays that can produce electron-positron pairs, but an atom?

Jorrie

__________________
"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge." -- Kahlil Gibran
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Greece - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Greece / Athens
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 28
#7

Re: The matter what we see.

07/27/2007 5:46 AM

Hi... You said:"Now so far as E = mc2 is considered the value of C is the last limit for the velocity of the photon that the mass of the photon is zero for all the values of its velocity greater than C an equal to C. But when the velocity of the photon decreases than C, no matter how small this decrease will be, some of its energy changes to solid mass."

I don't get it... A photon has a "moving mass" which is depending on its energy and this is m=E/c2... When a photon is moving through a matterial (other than empty space) its velocity is reduced, its energy is reduced and its corresponding "moving mass" is reduced... When the photon is at rest its "moving mass" is zero and due the lack of rest mass (m0=0) it does't "exist" any more... I can't understand how is possible to obtain a "solid mass" in lower speeds than c...

Unless, you consider something like m=E/v2 (v=velocity of the photon) then you assume that E is constant so the "mass" (m) is increased as v is reduced... And this increment of mass corresponds to solid mass... But then how is the rest mass of the photon zero???...

I'm comfused...

__________________
George
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 8 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Faustfix (1); G.K. (1); Jorrie (3); sayedrahimhaidari (2); StandardsGuy (1)

Previous in Forum: Torque of rear axle from static condition ?   Next in Forum: Allowable Bearing Pressure
You might be interested in: Mass Spectrometers, Solid State Relays

Advertisement