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TVS Diode and Relay Circuit

08/24/2016 11:50 AM

The input voltage can be 120VAC or 240VAC. I want to turn on a relay contact only when input is 240VAC. When 120VAC is present nothing should happen. Can I get your thoughts on the circuit that I'm thinking about.

The cap is used to hold the relay on during the time the TVS is not conducting. The resistor cap combination is meant to be an RC time constant: 10ms

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#1

Re: TVS Diode and Relay circuit

08/24/2016 1:44 PM

What is your coil resistance of the relay in your circuit?

I understand what you are trying to do, but the coil resistance of your relay in DC is probably less then 200ohms. With the 1K series resistor I doubt if you will achieve pull in current, and the capacitor will drain very fast through the coil.

Build the circuit to see what values you need.

Also will the TVS be able to dissipate the watts of the 120V (rms) drop through the alternating zener diodes?

TVS are rated for surge current, and without knowing the product family I would be guessing at the steady state watts it can handle.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: TVS Diode and Relay circuit

08/24/2016 3:28 PM

Good Answer. There's a clue in the name TRANSIENT Voltage Suppressor: they're not designed to handle constant power.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: TVS Diode and Relay circuit

08/24/2016 6:10 PM

I don't recall seeing where they can not handle constant power but the data sheet must be read and complied with. The constant power that they could handle is FAR LESS than the transient power.

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#2

Re: TVS Diode and Relay circuit

08/24/2016 3:14 PM

The link was extremely helpful. Thank you.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: TVS Diode and Relay circuit

08/24/2016 11:51 PM

...but that article had no information on making an AC relay pull in at 240V, and not pull in at 120V.

AC-actuated relays are designed to inherently remain closed during the low-voltage portion of the power line cycle, so the capacitor should not be needed.

As a previous post indicated, the 1kΩ resistor is almost certainly too large to provide the required pull-in current.

I'd recommend using a Solid-State Relay, with a voltage divider reducing the control voltage. Some trial and error will show what voltage reliably triggers the specific SSR that you choose.

If you are concerned about contact chatter, choose an SSR with a DC input, and use a diode and capacitor with the voltage divider to convert the power line voltage to DC for the control circuit.

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#6

Re: TVS Diode and Relay Circuit

08/25/2016 5:38 AM

http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search/en/relays/power-relays-over-2-amps/1049447?k=Relay&k=&pkeyword=Relay&pv1413=24&pv1413=287&pv1413=211&pv1413=214&pv1413=30&pv1413=48&FV=fff40010%2Cfff80367&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

How much power (Voltage/Amps) do you want the contacts to handle?

Does it matter if the voltage across the coil drops from 240 to 120, and, the relay remains closed? (One "feature" of relay activating voltages is the huge hysteresis. Your own proposed circuit will also suffer with this problem.)

Look at the data sheet of any possible component carefully: the Digikey selection "column" only states the Turn On Voltage (Max).

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: TVS Diode and Relay Circuit

08/25/2016 11:34 AM

By applying a few more filters(active[not obsolete],general purpose,SPST, and eliminating the 277Vcoils), I got it down to 2 choices.

But this brings up another question for the OP: why not just use a relay with a coil designed for 240V? Such a relay will definitely pull in at less than 240V, but not likely at 120V. On the other hand, as Randall has indicated, although it probably won't pull in at 120V, once pulled in to the closed position, it might well remain closed as low as 120V.

If you are trying to make an existing 120V relay only work at close to 240V, then there must be something in the circuit that either:

1. Wastes the same amount of energy as does the 120v coil. A simple resistor having the same resistance as the impedance of the relay coil, and physically large enough to handle the power, connected in series with the coil, would do the job.

2. Reduces the voltage by 120V, yet can carry sufficient current to reliably activate and hold the magnetic coil. A TVS that fires at 120V, as you showed, would theoretically reduce the voltage, without the resistor and capacitor, but I know nothing about the TVS current handling ability on a continuously repeated basis. That 1kΩ resistor will clearly prevent sufficient current. If you elect to experiment (which I highly recommend), please wear some form of eye protection. I presume you are aware that the capacitor must be a non-polarized type; an electrolytic would explode in short order.

You are apparently aware that the ON time will be shorter. Since the angle whose sine is 0.5 is 30°, the TVS wouldn't begin to conduct until one third of the way through the 90° rise time, assuming the the TVS triggers right at 120v, which is clearly NOT the case. Since the peak voltage of 120VRMS is around 160V, a 120V TVS must not fire until the voltage reaches well above 160V. I know nothing about the turn-off characteristics of a TVS as the voltage drops; once triggered, it may well continue to conduct well after the line voltage drops below 120V

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: TVS Diode and Relay Circuit

08/25/2016 3:53 PM

The typical drop out for an ac relay coil is 63% of rated, so it seems that KISS would dictate just a 240V relay coil, nothing else. You could put the RC circuit across the coil, it will increase the dropout time

DC coils drop out at about 20% of rated voltage.

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#7

Re: TVS Diode and Relay Circuit

08/25/2016 11:13 AM

I used to work in emergency lighting. Resistors and zeners in series with a relay coil were used to ensure the circuit cut in and out at appropriate voltages. The component values were established by trial and error.

Worked well until the purchasing department decided to change to another manufacturer's relays.

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BruceFlorida (1); dkwarner (2); ignator (1); jmann (1); Leatherneck (1); Randall (2); rwilliams (1)

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