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ad016
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A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/10/2017 6:48 AM

Hi,

I was introduced to a guy last night who said that he worked for a company which made fuel cells that ran from natural gas. I have only come across the original type that work with Hydrogen before, so I was quite interested but he didn't know a great deal other than the fuel gas.

Has anyone any experience of these and know how they work? Here's a link to the company site: http://www.cerespower.com/who-we-are/our-steelcell-technology/

It's very glossy but they are not very forthcoming on details.

Drew
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SolarEagle
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#1

Re: A new fuel cell tecnology?

12/10/2017 8:10 AM

..."Solid oxide fuel cells (SOFCs) use a solid material, most commonly a ceramic material called yttria-stabilized zirconia (YSZ), as the electrolyte. Because SOFCs are made entirely of solid materials, they are not limited to the flat plane configuration of other types of fuel cells and are often designed as rolled tubes. They require high operating temperatures (800–1000 °C) and can be run on a variety of fuels including natural gas.[39]

SOFCs are unique since in those, negatively charged oxygen ions travel from the cathode (positive side of the fuel cell) to the anode (negative side of the fuel cell) instead of positively charged hydrogen ions travelling from the anode to the cathode, as is the case in all other types of fuel cells. Oxygen gas is fed through the cathode, where it absorbs electrons to create oxygen ions. The oxygen ions then travel through the electrolyte to react with hydrogen gas at the anode. The reaction at the anode produces electricity and water as by-products. Carbon dioxide may also be a by-product depending on the fuel, but the carbon emissions from an SOFC system are less than those from a fossil fuel combustion plant.[40] The chemical reactions for the SOFC system can be expressed as follows:[41]

Anode Reaction: 2H2 + 2O2− → 2H2O + 4e−
Cathode Reaction: O2 + 4e− → 2O2−
Overall Cell Reaction: 2H2 + O2 → 2H2O

SOFC systems can run on fuels other than pure hydrogen gas. However, since hydrogen is necessary for the reactions listed above, the fuel selected must contain hydrogen atoms. For the fuel cell to operate, the fuel must be converted into pure hydrogen gas. SOFCs are capable of internally reforming light hydrocarbons such as methane (natural gas),[42] propane and butane.[43] These fuel cells are at an early stage of development.[44]

Challenges exist in SOFC systems due to their high operating temperatures. One such challenge is the potential for carbon dust to build up on the anode, which slows down the internal reforming process. Research to address this "carbon coking" issue at the University of Pennsylvania has shown that the use of copper-based cermet (heat-resistant materials made of ceramic and metal) can reduce coking and the loss of performance.[45] Another disadvantage of SOFC systems is slow start-up time, making SOFCs less useful for mobile applications. Despite these disadvantages, a high operating temperature provides an advantage by removing the need for a precious metal catalyst like platinum, thereby reducing cost. Additionally, waste heat from SOFC systems may be captured and reused, increasing the theoretical overall efficiency to as high as 80%–85%.[39]

The high operating temperature is largely due to the physical properties of the YSZ electrolyte. As temperature decreases, so does the ionic conductivity of YSZ. Therefore, to obtain optimum performance of the fuel cell, a high operating temperature is required. According to their website, Ceres Power, a UK SOFC fuel cell manufacturer, has developed a method of reducing the operating temperature of their SOFC system to 500–600 degrees Celsius. They replaced the commonly used YSZ electrolyte with a CGO (cerium gadolinium oxide) electrolyte. The lower operating temperature allows them to use stainless steel instead of ceramic as the cell substrate, which reduces cost and start-up time of the system.[46]"...

http://social.cummins.com/cummins-teams-ceres-develop-fuel-cell-technology-data-centers/

https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/CWR:LN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

Fuel cells have been "in development" for as long as I can remember, have many 'pilot' projects that have been implemented with grants that have been somewhat successful, but never seem to pan out .....no large scale adoption in any niche category that I know of to date...they're expensive, problematic to maintain, and complicated to understand....every now and then one of these companies comes out with an announcement that they have made a breakthrough in material improvement, but it never seems to make much difference....In any case a long term trial with clear transparency of the results and costs associated, would be required for any reasonable evaluation to be done....something we have yet to see....

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ad016
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: A new fuel cell tecnology?

12/10/2017 10:29 AM

Thank you very much for that, very informative.

Drew
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SolarEagle
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: A new fuel cell technology?

12/10/2017 1:30 PM

Remember the Bloom Box? ...arrived with much hoopla

Reported to cost some $10,000. per kw....yikes

Then there's the no-name sofc Nissan that runs on 100% ethanol....

Then there was "The Cube"....

..."A new solid-oxide fuel cell (SOFC) could be more efficient and one-tenth the price of the Bloom Energy Server. Startup company Redox Power Systems is calling their SOFC "The Cube" and claim that once it's built, it will cost $800 per kilowatt compared to Bloom's $10,000 per kilowatt.Aug 26, 2013"...

That's cool looking....but it's a no show...sounds the same as Ceres

https://www.redoxenergy.com/faq

https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/review16/fc115_blackburn_2016_o.pdf

https://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/the-bloom-is-off-bloom-energy/

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/blooms-fuel-cells-just-how-green-is-a-bloom-box#gs.HU=moAs

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Spinco
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#4

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/10/2017 11:27 PM

Several are working on the use of natural gas as fuel for fuel cells. http://www.thedrive.com/tech/9738/toyota-experimenting-with-natural-gas-fuel-cells

Small natural gas fuel cells, 2.5 to 5 kw units are being sold in Australia and Japan at this time I believe.

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SolarEagle
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#5
In reply to #4

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 2:21 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_fuel_cell

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Spinco
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#7
In reply to #5

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 11:00 AM

This company has been doing it for a while in Australia and has exported overseas as well.

https://www.bluegen-net.com/

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SolarEagle
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#9
In reply to #7

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 11:47 AM

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-spectator/ceramic-fuel-cells--a-dead-end-technology/news-story/0c6c965dc1c584cc3a92c7a88407768f

The problems here are that these fuel cells are expensive, they produce CO2 as much as , or nearly as much as, an ICE generator...So. what's the point? If you have a natural gas source, a regular gas generator is much cheaper...

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Spinco
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#10
In reply to #9

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 6:19 PM

If the costs can be made manageable, the advantage of the fuel cell is the higher efficiency obtained by utilizing the heat generated to provide hot water, residence heating during cold weather, a/c during hot weather (LiBr units) while exhausting H2O and CO2. Efficiencies exceeding 85% can be achieved, far superior to the 40% from ICE or central station, not to mention the losses from electrical transmission lines. I do not consider CO2 as big a problem as say methane. CO2 is needed as part of nature. Plant more trees and stop paving over so much land or planting grass instead of trees because people are too lazy to rake up leaves.

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SolarEagle
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#11
In reply to #10

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 7:22 PM

Utilizing the heat would require more special equipment designed to work with the fuel cell.....special = more money ....and you need to bear in mind that the fuel cell has a limited lifespan 10 - 15 years from what I've read.....= more money ...and this will require specialized service personnel = more money....

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setlock77
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#6

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 10:00 AM

I have made several different types of fuel cells that can run on methane. The "standard" SOFC uses nickel metal as its anode. this is because in processing, Nickel Oxide has similar thermal expansion as YSZ (which someone else informed you about). So when processing these things at high temperature (sintering) the YSZ and the nickel oxide are blended/ sintered together. Then at a lower temperature, Hydrogen (or a hydrogen gas mix) is used to reduce the Nickel oxide to Nickel metal and therefore create electrical (and some triple point boundaries with other elements) conduction within the cell since nickel oxide is not electrically conductive, I will also add that the reduction process also is a volume reduction and creates pores that help the gases get to/from the electrolyte.

The big problem with this set-up is that nickel metal promotes "coking" when in contact with a carbonaceous gas such as methane at most certain temperatures. Coking causes carbon black to form and plug the pathways that the gas needs to go to and from the electrolyte. there are several ways to get around this issue. If one can process their fuel cell whereas they can add the electrode material after the high temperature sintering step, they can then add any material that does not coke. This is how i got around the issue and on one method i used Copper as an anode which at certain temperatures will resist coking.

another way is to run the methane through a reformer before it gets to the fuel cell.

So the answer is yes SOFC can operate with alternative fuels besides Hydrogen, but at a cost.
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harley
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#8

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 11:39 AM

Check out the work LGFCS has been doing.
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SolarEagle
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#12
In reply to #8

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/11/2017 7:33 PM

I don't see anything compelling....

https://www.osti.gov/scitech/servlets/purl/1332517

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duikerbok
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#13

Re: A New Fuel Cell Technology?

12/12/2017 5:34 AM

I bought the stock on the basis that they had tied up with British Gas to roll these out over UK - big downturn when BG abandoned it.

Now I believe they act as consultants rather than manufacturers.

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