Minimize Rock Slides

Polyol is an organic compound with multiple hydroxyl. The sugar substitutes Sorbitol and Manitol are Polyols. I think you chose the wrong word to describe what you wish to inject for stabilization. It still might be a Polyol but not any Polyol.

I did not refer to a particular group, so what made you think of a food science application instead of the info on the link I provided?

The reason I added the link was to prevent any ambiguity as to the type of polyol to which I was referring.

There are many forms of polyol, and have entirely different meanings in food science vs polymer chemistry.

Please read the original link and all will be clarified, but for your further edification, check this link also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyol

You mean the link I provided, I read it. I also read the link you provided on malleable Polyol paint coatings and saw the three chuckle heads demonstrators toss a melon converted into a dodge ball. I still don't understand how any non-living organic material can last indefinitely on the face of a mountain exposed to sunlight and multiple organisms pecking away at it. (Lots of rodents love to nibble on squishy things.)

I suspect inorganic shotcrete (as Doorman pointed out) will be much more cost effective and not nibbled upon by any creature.

There is also a liability factor to this safety system. Shotcrete has the advantage of pedigree, it has already been used many times to prevent future rock slides. Using any form of Polyol to keep people safe from rock slides is untested, as far as I know. A plausible initial test might be to cover a Shotcrete system with a Polyol coating to see what simple long term exposure produces.

Of course it is untested,as far as I know.I was merely suggesting a possible answer to a dangerous problem.What price human life?

I was hoping this would filter down to someone with the ability and resources to test this idea.

All constructive criticism is always appreciated,so thanks to all who have provided it.

Exit(0)

"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson

Been tested and patented:

https://patents.google.com/patent/CA2401148C/en

Well, patented anyway.

Thanks for that! It is good to see that I was not the only one considering this method.

"A overcoat spray of Polyol would also prevent the smaller rocks from sliding."

Shotcrete is commonly used to stabilize some areas where rocks can and do tumble down onto a road.

Wiki: Shotcrete

The weakness of shotcrete is its inflexibility. When it breaks, it does so suddenly.

Polyol stretches instead, so that the build-up of stresses can be detected and appropriate actions are taken, such as traffic restriction, etc.

Please look at the first link I provided.

I did read your links.

My first (kneejerk) thoughts are, will this polyol stick to dirt, and what about chemical leaching? Groundwater contamination is a concern.

As you say, it does seem worthy of evaluation as a substitute for shotcrete.

Will shotcrete stick to dirt? No, but the buildup creates a "blanket" that encapsulates the small items. Same principle.

I also recommended deep injection into the solid rock face, to help minimize water entrainment. There is no chemical leeching involved, because the polyol hardens in a few seconds.

There is also a slight expansion of the mixture as it hardens, which should force it into the cracks beyond the injection site, so caution should be used to control the rate of injection to prevent triggering a slide.

Nothing in present technology can prevent a massive rockslide, but the smaller one can possibly be prevented or minimized.

Computer modelling could be used to design the coating thickness to peel away at a controlled rate, for instance, from top to bottom, peeling away slowly as it fails. This would give a warning on the impending slide.

I grew up in the Smokey Mountains and I have seen tremendous rockslides that could be seen from 20 miles away.

Stupidly, I went to one a few days after to see the mountainside stripped down to bedrock.

I found a log that looked like a bottle brush, having been rolled under the heavy rock.

It was too big to bring back as a souvenir.

There were also writings from the 1800's carved into a flat rock that was uncovered.

It had a man's name (I don't remember it--it was over 50 years ago), and the year that he was there.

I was foolish for going up there so soon after a major slide, because it is not safe for many months afterward due to secondary slides.

The Lord looks out for drunks and fools, and I have been both at some times in my life.

Hours after I left, there was another smaller slide, right where I had been.

I have quit drinking, but the foolishness is still there, and I thank the Lord for his grace.

We'll need an environmental study first....good luck with that

"We have found the enemy,and it is us."

Tsk tsk.

That's not necessarily true, any longer.

It's open season on the environment these days.

The coating you are referring to in the linked article isn't polyol. It is polyurea.

Polyurea is made by reacting a polyol with an isocyanate. This is typically done with an impingement type spray gun where the two components are mixed at the spray tip and react within a few seconds.

Because the uncured components are highly moisture sensitive, it is important that it is applied to a dry surface. Moisture contamination is usually the biggest problem encountered when working with these materials.

For deep, high pressure injection to be effective, the reaction times would have to be slowed down considerably. While this would be possible by adjusting temperature and catalysts, the longer open times would make it susceptible to moisture contamination.

In short, I don't think what you suggest is possible with existing technology.

I think the link explains what I intended to convey.

Concrete or Cement is not really all cement; it is a mixture of many ingredients, which vary by application, but it is referred to as simply concrete for simplicity.

Cement can have many meanings.

I referred to polyol in this as a matter of convenience, and added the link for further information to all who might be interested in the subject, rather than for those willing to nit-pick the exact chemical nature of it.

Of course I do not advocate using the same apparatus or mix ratios as is used to spray truck beds and insulate buildings, so it will require research and testing to determine the best reaction time, and methods may vary from place to place.

Long slow heat may be required in certain places to ensure a dry area for the injection.

Well it seems to me for anything like this to be considered for widespread adoption it would need to be faster, cheaper, better....but then there might be a niche market who knows....flexibility alone I don't think is enough....

Application of Telescopic Rockbolt And Flexible Shotcrete In the Tunnel Surrounded By Rock Subjected to Large Deformation

https://www.onepetro.org/conference-paper/ARMA-91-1047