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Bayes
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Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/22/2018 8:24 AM

I found this article fascinating. Essentially the CEO of Ariane Group is angry at SpaceX, which he insists is subsidized by the U.S. Government. I think it's a bit eye-opening how bitter these aerospace contractors are that Musk is disrupting their industry. I think the most surprising exchange (to me) in the interview is this:

Charmeau said the Ariane rocket does not launch often enough to justify the investment into reusability. (It would need about 30 launches a year to justify these costs, he said). And then Charmeau said something telling about why reusability doesn't make sense to a government-backed rocket company—jobs.

"Let us say we had ten guaranteed launches per year in Europe and we had a rocket which we can use ten times—we would build exactly one rocket per year," he said. "That makes no sense. I cannot tell my teams: 'Goodbye, see you next year!'"

This seems a moment of real irony. Whereas earlier in the interview Charmeau accuses the US government of subsidizing SpaceX, a few minutes later he says the Ariane Group can't make a reusable rocket because it would be too efficient. For Europe, a difficult decision now looms. It can either keep subsidizing its own launch business in order to maintain an independent capability, or it can give in to Elon Musk and SpaceX, and Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin.

The article can be found here
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redfred
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#1

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/22/2018 3:20 PM

If my memory is correct I believe one of the pivotal reasons for starting Ariane was the perceived inefficiencies of NASA by the European Space Agency.

How ironic.

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Bayes
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/22/2018 3:54 PM

lol, is that true? That's pretty ironic, but I believe it. Yeah, I kind of have some sympathy for the guy. He's trying to run a business and keep people employed and the truth is SpaceX has done something remarkable in recovering boosters. It seems like the writing is on the wall for them. Though it's likely the ESA will subsidize them in order to avoid being dependent on external launch companies.
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dkwarner
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#3
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Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/23/2018 12:27 AM

"...the truth is SpaceX has done something remarkable in recovering boosters."

Indeed! Since most of the early development of rockets was for military objectives, low cost was hardly the primary objective. Once the developers of rockets were accustomed to the concept of single-use boosters for military purposes, it is quite logical that they would follow the known route for commercial rockets, at least to begin.

Also, GPS, sensors, high-speed computers, controllers, etc. required for safely landing the booster back at the launchpad or on a barge either didn't exist or were too slow in the early days of commercial rocketry, so there would probably have been a lot of failures if they had tried.

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rashavarek
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#4

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/23/2018 9:57 AM

Is Ariane is a publically owned venture?

We know SpaceX is not.

This makes a big difference in corporate objectives.

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Bayes
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#5
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Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/23/2018 10:31 AM

I think you make a good point there. I've heard SpaceX say they wouldn't go public till they were regularly flying to Mars. There reasoning was the same as you hint at in your comment. Publically held companies tend to be more risk-averse.
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Jpfalt
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#6

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/23/2018 12:32 PM

So what the CEO of Ariane is missing is that if Europe could grow a market with 100 launches per year, then he could justify reusability. Just like a government subsidized beaurocrat to assume right of the start that this is a zero sum game and that business is scuffling for a piece of the permanently fixed size pie.

So rocket building in France is a social welfare program, rather than an efficient business.
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Hooker
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#7
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Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/23/2018 11:07 PM

"So rocket building in France is a social welfare program, rather than an efficient business."

As is the rest of France's aerospace industry. I spent a month back in the late '80's on loan to SNIAS/Aerospatiale. There's no way they could've survived without gov't subsidies.

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JE in Chicago
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#8

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/24/2018 1:00 AM

One of these companies is making drywall while the other is still trying to hang on to plaster.

Plaster is nice, but not the price

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Ried
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#9

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/24/2018 9:20 AM

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/04/spacex-is-gasp-going-to-expend-its-fifth-falcon-9-in-a-row/

Not all of SpaceX Falcon 9s are being reused. Most of 2018 launches have been older Falcon 9 models and are being splashed.

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Dr. Harry
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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/25/2018 9:12 AM

It must make sense economically to SpaceX.
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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Ariane Group Chief on SpaceX and Reusable Boosters

05/25/2018 9:38 AM

They are clearing out the older Falcons since they have successfully lofted the Block 5 version which is the highly reusable Falcon.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-launch-today-block-5-falcon-9-after-abort-yesterday-2018-05-11/

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