Previous in Forum: Onan RS1200   Next in Forum: Speed of Light
Close
Close
Close
22 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817

Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/08/2018 7:47 PM

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 58
#1

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/08/2018 11:29 PM

Interesting stuff - thanks for sharing.

Australia should be looking to nuclear for base load, but our politicians are mostly climate change deniers (why believe scientists when you know better because you collected votes). They are wanting to build "clean coal" fired power stations. The words clean and coal do not belong in the same sentence.

__________________
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (A.E.)
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/09/2018 1:28 PM

Cleaner coal would be a more accurate term.

I am all in favour of nuclear for Australia base load, there are so many advantages.

Oh, you don't mind if we run an extension cord over to you do you?

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/09/2018 1:33 PM

Australia will probably go the way of the United States with fracking and nat gas, it's cheap and easy and cleaner than coal...In fact everybody will probably eventually go this way...

The story of fracking and the natural gas revolution...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#4

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/09/2018 5:47 PM

It seems the biggest problem with uranium reactors is their inherent instability - they have to be actively controlled to stay balanced on the operating point between shutdown and meltdown. This works as long as there is nothing wrong with the control system.

Thorium reactors are supposed to be designed to be meltdown proof. According to their proponents, there are a number of advantages:

"

  • Thorium is three times as abundant as uranium and nearly as abundant as lead and gallium in the Earth's crust.[18] The Thorium Energy Alliance estimates "there is enough thorium in the United States alone to power the country at its current energy level for over 1,000 years."[17][18] "America has buried tons as a by-product of rare earth metals mining," notes Evans-Pritchard.[19] Almost all thorium is fertile Th-232, compared to uranium that is composed of 99.3% fertile U-238 and 0.7% more valuable fissile U-235.
  • It is difficult to make a practical nuclear bomb from a thorium reactor's byproducts. According to Alvin Radkowsky, designer of the world's first full-scale atomic electric power plant, "a thorium reactor's plutonium production rate would be less than 2 percent of that of a standard reactor, and the plutonium's isotopic content would make it unsuitable for a nuclear detonation."[14]:11[20] Several uranium-233 bombs have been tested, but the presence of uranium-232 tended to "poison" the uranium-233 in two ways: intense radiation from the uranium-232 made the material difficult to handle, and the uranium-232 led to possible pre-detonation. Separating the uranium-232 from the uranium-233 proved very difficult, although newer laser techniques could facilitate that process.[21][22]
  • There is much less nuclear waste—up to two orders of magnitude less, state Moir and Teller,[4] eliminating the need for large-scale or long-term storage;[14]:13 "Chinese scientists claim that hazardous waste will be a thousand times less than with uranium."[19] The radioactivity of the resulting waste also drops down to safe levels after just a one or a few hundred years, compared to tens of thousands of years needed for current nuclear waste to cool off.[23]
  • According to Moir and Teller, "once started up [it] needs no other fuel except thorium because it makes most or all of its own fuel."[4]This only applies to breeding reactors, that produce at least as much fissile material as they consume. Other reactors require additional fissile material, such as uranium-235 or plutonium.[17]
  • Thorium fuel cycle is a potential way to produce long term nuclear energy with low radio-toxicity waste. In addition, the transition to thorium could be done through the incineration of weapons grade plutonium (WPu) or civilian plutonium.[24]
  • Since all natural thorium can be used as fuel no expensive fuel enrichment is needed.[23] However the same is true for U-238 as fertile fuel in the uranium-plutonium cycle.
  • Comparing the amount of thorium needed with coal, Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia of CERN, (European Organization for Nuclear Research), estimates that one ton of thorium can produce as much energy as 200 tons of uranium, or 3,500,000 tons of coal.[25]
  • Liquid fluoride thorium reactors are designed to be meltdown proof. A plug at the bottom of the reactor melts in the event of a power failure or if temperatures exceed a set limit, draining the fuel into an underground tank for safe storage.[26]
  • Mining thorium is safer and more efficient than mining uranium. Thorium's ore monazite generally contains higher concentrations of thorium than the percentage of uranium found in its respective ore. This makes thorium a more cost efficient and less environmentally damaging fuel source. Thorium mining is also easier and less dangerous than uranium mining, as the mine is an open pit which requires no ventilation, unlike underground uranium mines, where radon levels can be potentially harmful.[27] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

The pro and cons of thorium reactors:

https://whatisnuclear.com/thorium.html

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Aggieland, Texas
Posts: 722
Good Answers: 8
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/10/2018 4:55 AM

It seems like a no brainer. Why don't we use it?

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, OH
Posts: 1925
Good Answers: 36
#6

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/10/2018 7:01 PM

Overall I like the video, but anyone who stops after the first many minutes will get a sour opinion!! I like the concept of fast nuclear power since it is so much better than thermal nuclear--what we mostly have now. Whether liquid sodium, thorium, or molten salt may not matter too much. Thorium can be used, but it seems better to use the many tons of depleted uranium resulting from our enrichment program which was needed for thermal reactors (and also for bombs, which are not at all related.) Remember that we have enough U-238 to sustain a reactor program without mining any.

What we need is an educational program to show the public that nuclear really is safe. Remember that many more people have died from [useless] evacuations than from the nuclear accidents. The educational program will be more effective if we start with children (elementary school) rather than adults--it will take much longer, but will be more effective.

I suggest that all should read two books, both by Wade Allison: Radiation and Reason--the impact of science on a culture of fear, and Nuclear Is for Life--a cultural revolution.

__________________
Lehman57
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/10/2018 9:40 PM

..."The educational program will be more effective if we start with children (elementary school) rather than adults--it will take much longer, but will be more effective."...

Ha, good luck trying to get left wing liberal teachers to teach that....We need a cartoon superhero, Nuclear Girl, to save kids all the time, and be smokin' hot.... Across all media....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - Time to take control United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posts: 2129
Good Answers: 87
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/11/2018 9:14 AM

I like the way you think. I'm all for super hero chicks girls.

__________________
J B
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#9

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/11/2018 10:43 AM

A very good program. As with most of these solutions they do not take into account the massive economic machine that is the oil industry and how actively they will fight any encroachment on their business.

The other issue is waste. That one we have never moved past the Ostrich stage.

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
#10

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/11/2018 9:00 PM

Does anyone out there know of the advantages of using Helium 3 ?

Wake Up Sheep !

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/11/2018 9:34 PM

Helium 3 fusion is still largely theoretical, and if possible, is far into the future....not really relevant to this conversation yet...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
#12

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/11/2018 11:13 PM

Its on the surface of the Moon ! Just look at the long scraping trail's on the surface from mining it !

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/11/2018 11:29 PM

So who's mining the Moon, you?

..."The Chinese Lunar Exploration Program is designed to be conducted in three phases of incremental technological advancement: The first is simply reaching lunar orbit, a task completed by Chang'e 1 in 2007 and Chang'e 2 in 2010. The second is landing and roving on the Moon, as Chang'e 3 did in 2013 and Chang'e 4 (launched in December 2018, expected to landing on the Moon in 2019). The third phase is collecting lunar samples from the near-side and sending them to Earth, a task for the future Chang'e 5 and Chang'e 6 missions. The program aims to facilitate a crewed lunar landing in the 2030s and possibly build an outpost near the south pole.[13]"...

Current status...

...."The rover was still intermittently transmitting as late as 6 September 2014.[51] As of March 2015, the rover remained immobile and its instruments continued degrading,[58][59][60] but was still able to communicate with Earth radio stations.[61][62][63][64] While amateur observers were unable to detect transmissions from the lander, Chinese officials reported that the craft was still operating its UV Camera and Telescope as it entered its 14th lunar night on 14 January 2015.[51][65]

The Yutu rover ceased to transmit data in March 2015.[52] The lander and its Lunar-based Ultraviolet Telescope (LUT) are still operational as of June 2018, four and a half years after landing on the Moon.[66] The power source for the lander, which consists of a Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator (RTG) and solar panels, could last for 30 years.[67] "...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3

Cuz it sure ain't the Chinese....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 1:10 PM

If your referencing the movie "Iron Sky" it was not a documentary.

Iron Sky

Who do you think is actually mining the moon for Helium 3?

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 2:29 PM

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
#17
In reply to #14

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 4:03 PM

Just Look at NASA PHOTOS they are not All touched up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#16
In reply to #12

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 2:50 PM

Yep, right next to the unobtainium mine.

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
#18

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 4:09 PM

When one views NASA photos that are mot touched up completely their is a lot to view I presume the majority of You think it it dual metiers rolling along the the Lunar surface ! LOL

I can't believe how many people believe all the read ! Just Look for Your self's !

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 4:34 PM

Oh I will Alec, just as soon as my number comes up for lunar launch rotation.

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#20
In reply to #18

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/12/2018 7:13 PM

As someone who actually worked for NASA I can say without a doubt that what you seem to think is the truth is not.

You don't need to explain any further, you won't get any takers from us on moon conspiracy theories. There are other dedicated message boards and discussion forums for this (just not on CR4), feel free to post your views there to other like minded people.

Also this is not the topic being discussed.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
#22
In reply to #20

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/14/2018 3:53 PM

I used to make items that went aboard a few of the latter space shuttle's that were for used for searching for alien life but NASA claims this is not true at that time and maybe still will not acknowledge !

The Master of All Trades

regardless of of topic or not !

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#21

Re: Nuclear Reactors Then and Now

12/13/2018 9:06 PM

Just 10 years later, on December 2nd 1942, the first human-made self sustaining nuclear chain reaction was initiated.

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 22 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Alec Ryals (5); jack of all trades (3); JBTardis (1); Lehman57 (1); PAPADOC (1); rashavarek (3); Rixter (1); SolarEagle (6); The Prof (1)

Previous in Forum: Onan RS1200   Next in Forum: Speed of Light

Advertisement