Previous in Forum: solar panels   Next in Forum: cut depth
Close
Close
Close
7 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Idaho Springs, CO, Capulin, NM, Roberts Creek, British Columbia
Posts: 26

Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/08/2007 11:42 PM

With the great uncertainty ahead coupled with a virtual certainty of impending prohibitive energy costs, the value to incorporate water as an interior thermal mass seems a minimal simple solution. To use uninsulated interior concrete walls as a conductor for the water resevoir and then become a radiant surface would automatically contribute about a four degree decease in the interior delta T as radiant produces a warmer feeling. There's an attempt to do that at cavitywall.net. Wonder about opinions on this method.

__________________
cavitywall
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#1

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/09/2007 2:45 PM

I have had a quick look, but just cannot see it being economically viable, or particularly useful (I may be wrong). Perhaps if there is a very large temperature differential between night and day.

Personally I think I will stick with wearing a jumper inside at night instead of using the heater at all.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - Our strength is our diversity

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1024
Good Answers: 40
#2

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/09/2007 3:18 PM

This method has been around since the birth of Solar heating.

The concept works like this. The southern facing walls (in northern hemisphere) is all windows. The sun radiates through the window to the thermal mass which is the concrete (not the water). This is simply known as the greenhouse effect. The concrete absorbs the solar energy during the day and re-radiates it during the night. I do not know the purpose of water, unless it is trying to store the heat at a separate site for later use, or to disperse the heat more evenly.

The overall effect is to level out the heat differential between daylight and night, and absorb and use as much free solar energy as possible. The only cost is the initial construction.

True it is not very efficient, however, it is generally an inexpensive way to get some free energy.

__________________
Perfection is a subjective and abstract concept.
Register to Reply
Guru
Belgium - Member - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Glabbeek, Belgium
Posts: 1480
Good Answers: 28
#3

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/10/2007 2:49 AM

This is only interesting for regions where the average temperature over the year is rather stable.

You can bridge some colder day's but not cold months.

A second point of interest is hygiene: you will have an amount of water kept between 20 and 25°C, oh those little buggars love this. Without refreshing and treating the water you will have problems after a while.

Dozens of ideas have been published that use the same basic idea: use water, stored in simple canisters (this method: the wall) to absorb the heat of the daytime sun and try to control the nighttime release of the heat.

Wall heating is not new, the Romans used it in our regions.

I have another idea on storing excess daytime/summer heat and releasing it in winter heating season: Latent heat storage. The main idea is to melt parrafin with the solar colletor and tap the heat when needed. Only one problem: you need quite some parrafin to bridge winter and domestic hot water needs. Energy input is not a problem: the roof of almost every house is sufficient.

To be able to lower the amount of needed parrafin I would add some small simple windmills that add energy to the system when wind is blowing. Those windmills can be very simple as the heater can use almost every kind of electricity supply DC/AC and everything in between. No rectifier needed, the only controller needed is the possibility to add heaters when wind is blowing hard.

__________________
"Here we are now, entertain us"
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Member

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/11/2007 3:45 AM

I'm sorry my english is bad. but I think you can use oil (Maybe ex-oil machine) instead of water. You can adopting heat exchanger system.

Register to Reply
Guru
Belgium - Member - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Glabbeek, Belgium
Posts: 1480
Good Answers: 28
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/11/2007 3:55 AM

English is not my primary language too.

You can indeed use oil as heat transfer medium but the thermal content of oil is way lower than water, even in warm oil bacteria will grow (that is why you should change the oil of you engine regularly even if not used)

Oil has a nasty habit of being fire sensitive: I would not like to be the fire department needing to enter a burning house with the risk that an oil filled wall collapses. This is also the problem point of my idea with parrafin: you need to store it in a well defined space, certainly if you start heating it up. But parrafin has the nice feature that it is solid in normal environmental temperatures, a spill remains well defined.

__________________
"Here we are now, entertain us"
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Idaho Springs, CO, Capulin, NM, Roberts Creek, British Columbia
Posts: 26
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/11/2007 11:47 AM

Thank you for the ideas. Water is so easy, especially when it can replenish from roof runoff. Periodic oxygenation with a little compressor and air diffusion stones will keep the water fresh. It can always be completely drained too. No problem.

To build with primary focus on solar orientation is shooting one's self in the foot. I hope people will stop getting used to hopping around.

__________________
cavitywall
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#7

Re: Water As Interior Thermal Mass, Fossil Fuel Elimination

10/13/2007 1:49 PM

In areas where there is plenty of sun it may be possible. I would look at solar heating panels to heat the water. Ideally the tank could be set under the structure so that heat rises in to the living spaces.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 7 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

agus_kuds (1); cavitywall (1); Gwen.Stouthuysen (2); jack of all trades (1); ozzb (1); techno (1)

Previous in Forum: solar panels   Next in Forum: cut depth

Advertisement