Painting Gate & Attaching Decorative Panel

Weld / wire wheel / drill weep holes to assure drainage and drying within the frame / prime / paint

Avoid flat sections of steel pressed against each other.

You could use short stand-offs to provide an air gap between the panels and frame. If self-tapping screws used, standard off-the-shelf unthreaded stand-offs would work. Alternatively, weld threaded stand-offs to the frame (or weld nuts to the frame for DIY stand-offs), positioned over clearance holes. To these welded stand-offs, the panels could be fastened with machine screws or bolts. With thoughtful layout, and thoughtful choice of machine screws/bolts, the heads of the fasteners could be a design element (acorn nuts on short threaded studs is a design option to consider).

Are the panels intended to add stiffness/strength to the gate?

If yes, then I suggest welding them, using a MIG welder with gas shielding, not flux cored wire.

If the panels are actually decorative, then prime/paint everything first and use self tapping, CRES screws to attach them. That also gives you the option of much easier removal of a panel if needed. For rust prevention, dip the screws in an rust preventative coating just prior to inserting and wipe away any surface excess.

The third option is to just let it all rust and gather a natural patina.

Good luck.

You're getting some good suggestions.

Another issue to consider is the amount of surface area on the panels. If there is wind of any amount ..it can turn a large covered gate into a metal bending sail.

2" square tube is a good start, but you need stiffeners, heavy posts and hinges too.

I've seen it happen.

How tall is the gate?

Hi, The gate frame is 12 x4 feet. I used 1/4 inch wall for the hinge side and 1/8" for the rest, with gussets welded in the corners, with three verticals, which one is for the jack and welded 1 1/4 " stubs to the ends. These go into self leveling bearings. I used a stainless steel sealed bearing on for the bottom. About 30 years ago I set 8 inch I-beam for my hinge side. I had noticed it was a half of bubble off, don't know if it had shifted or I did a poor job of leveling, so I put in a 4 ft deep dead head in concrete and welded on a 2 1/4" scrap angles to make a square tube for a strut about 7 ft long, pretty much at a 45 degree angle and welded to the I beam, I figured it wouldn't move with the heaver gate. Lot of good suggestions, haven't figured out which route to take yet. I do have to trim the laser cut plates since they are longer and wider than my frame. Just bought a metal cutting blade from HF, interested to see what it does on this steel. I will have 20 feet of trimming to do, wish I had a big shear.

I believe that would be worth taking to a machine shop to have cut....if for no other reason than to get a perfectly straight cut....It did occur to me that you could weld the whole thing up and have it powder coated...

I too would be concerned with wind loading on this gate, it should be designed for max wind speed in your area, at 100 mph wind, the gate could become a lethal object...

..."Armed with pressure and drag data, you can find the wind load using the following formula: force = area x pressure x Cd. Using the example of a flat section of a structure, the area – or length x width – can be set to 1 square foot, resulting in a wind load of 1 x 25.6 x 2 = 51.2 psf for a 100-mph wind. "...

...48 sqft would be 2,458 lbs of force on that gate...

Like SE said, I'd pay to have them sheared. Twenty feet of 1/8" steel will be a big job.

How big is the largest panel ?

I took two 4x4' 1/8" Al panels to my favorite machine to have them sheared in half and they charged me $10.00./$5.00 per shear.

Even with a guide for straightness, it'll take some time. About 5"/minute depending on how big your cut-off motor is I'd guess.

Hi Cardkey,

I think you may struggel a bit with the sawing of the metal.

Might I suggest buying or renting a Plasma cutter to do the job. My son has one which comes with an inbuilt compressor and has a current of 40amps. With the use of wheels and a straight edge it will cut fairly cleanly with a minimum of distortion to the plate and little roughness to the edges to clean up.

I have a Cut50 which uses the workshop compressor for air and I have sliced 12mm stainless plate with it and down to 1.0mm plate. With thin plate it is best to not rush the job but keep the cut progressing.

I moved away from Oxy/Acetylene cutting because of the cost of bottle rental and refills and besides I often cut Aluminium, stainless, copper or brass so oxy useless for that.

As for the post ending up out of plumb, if you live anywhere with a slight slope to the land then I ahve found that the posts always walk downhill, could be called the Easter Island syndrome, no matter how careful you were with the installation or amount of concrete used unless you make a cement reinforced beam between the posts to act as a mowing strip then they both walk downhill together.

I used to run a company that installed satellite dishes,when they were huge affairs, up to 14 ft diameter solid dishes.The mount had to be perfectly vertical,and stay that way,no matter where the dish was pointing,so it had to withstand heavy side loading.I used schedule 40 pipe,and drilled a 4ft deep hole,2 ft diameter,with an X shaped form 6 inches deep and 1 foot wide,with each leg extending 4 feet from center of the hole,surrounding the hole.The hole and X braces were then filled with concrete,not Brixment (as I had seen some installations performed with). The X extensions were covered with dirt to allow grass to grow right up to the post.I saw hurricane winds bend the mount,but the pole never moved from vertical in the mount.Proper mounting of the post will hold it without ever sagging.

Around 10 years ago, I removed a satellite dish from my back yard. The post wasn't too tall, but the hole I had to dig to get the concreted out! It was about 4-5' diameter and 3' deep. My buddies and I dragged it out of the hole and left it in the driveway. A neighbor told us he'd take it for scrap metal. He broke all the concrete away, cleaned up the mess and took the pole. Later, I found out that there's a good market for used satellite dish poles. They use them for signage for businesses.

At least my neighbor made some money for all his labor.

Go to a local body shop and buy some of the structural adhesive they use to put car panels on with.You will minimize the use of fasteners with this and it will be plenty strong.If you can find a fish oil primer,use it.It has become hard to find since it is being used in supplements.Zinc Chromate Primer is also good if you can find it.

If you have room for it,a caster wheel at the end of the gate will give extra support where it is need the most.Just make sure the swing radius of the gate is level.

A good structural adhesive is as good or better than a weld in applications such as yours.3M DP8825NS series adhesives are used in many industries instead of welding.I would suggest SS rivets at the corners and bracing,and adhesive elsewhere along the perimeters of contact.No rust prone areas to worry about if you pre-paint the panels.

Here is a link showing an application similar to yours:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/bonding-and-assembly-us/structural-adhesives/

Good luck.

Disclaimer:I have no financial or other interest in 3M or their products.

Do you know how easy/difficult it is to remove parts that have been "glued"? I'm curious, because I have a sheet metal project that I'm thinking of either welding or using one of the high tech adhesives. I've heard good reports from them.

I would think no harder to remove than a weld.Heat the joint with a torch should soften it up.

Your local body shop might sell you a small amount and advise on removal.

The adhesive will also guarantee a complete "fill" between the sheet metal and frame. If welding, there's a chance of air pockets after the weld is ground down.

If you have any experience with the adhesive, let me know.

Depends on the adhesive. And proper surface preparation.

Garden variety epoxies will soften at around 200°F. Fillers/thickeners will increase the heat required, but lessen runs and sags.

Other types, PU, acrylics, hot melt etc. all have a softening point, or glass transition temperature, above which they must be heated to become soft.

Silicones are another animal. Heat doesn't phase them. If you need to remove a silicone bond use toluene to soften the stuff, and a piano wire to slice through it.

Great info!

I have a small project I'm working on. I'll start another thread in a minute. Maybe you can help.

Thanks

Use a paint gun instead of a brush, so that paint reaches the crevices. Even if you use screws, there would be some spaces that would not get a coat of paint.

Other alternative would be to dip the inaccessible areas in paint.

I agree, spray it vs using a brush or roller. I mentioned that a very hard/durable paint would be the best way to go. I personally like Imron - it's super hard and strong.

I think dipping would be tough, due to the size of the gate.

There are a number of ways to attack this;

You could weld hex head bolts to the back of the panel and drill the frame to take the bolts and nut on the back side of the frame which gives an air gap between the panel and the frame. Makes it easier to repaint or repair should the gate get damaged.

As for painting this is the method I use. First I give everything a coat of cold galv paint. If you used galv square for the frame then just cold galv the joints and etch prime the frame.

Next the whole lot needs priming with a zinc phosphate or iron oxide primer, used to get zinc chromate but not any more. I have found that the best finish for the top coat is to use hammer finish paint for the binders and sealers used give an extremely durable finish. I have painted items that sit in the Queensland sun for many years and still look great including a windmill which is a little tatty now after 30 years.

I have used self drilling screws but the finish applied be it passivated, painted or hot dipped galvanised not the electroplated type does seem to have a shorter coating life span than properly applied paint.

Welding does attach the panel as you propose but when the gate gets damaged, and it will by animals or an animal behind the wheel of a vehicle you are up for grinding to remove the weld. The paint around the weld area will be heat damaged and be a rust spot waiting to show it ginger head, apologies to blood nuts in advance.

I was reading the posts and there are some great ideas for you. I have a question about where you live and the weather conditions? Will you have salt (from ice melting) hitting the gate in the winter? Dust storms and high winds? Live near the ocean with a lot of salt in the air? Or in the desert with very little water damage likely? Also, how long do you want the gate to last?

In the auto restoration industry, we use POR-15 to keep rust away. It works and does a great job, though I just watched an interesting video of POR-15 rust encapsulator vs the competitors. Watch the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovcxJt1a5-M

I live in Kansas City area, so typical rain,snow ice, off the main road, so no salt spray. I like the video, I have some rusted rear quarter panel on my 2009 Ford PKU that need attention. looks like that Internal Frame spray by Eastwood would be a good option..

I have had good luck with Red Oxide primer, I had painted a satellite dish mount that's been up for 20 years and still hasn't rusted ,hope today's paint is as good as it was back then. I think I am going to attach panels with TEK drill screws, since the tubing is only 10 gauge, pre-drill the panels and and then spray the primer and top coats on all the metal then attach panels to frame. The 1/4" inch hinge side probably just drill and tap ,since there aren't going to be that many attachments

The one thing the video doesn't discuss is that POR-15 needs to be painted, to protect the protective coating - that's for panels that are exposed to the elements.

Eastwood makes some great professional auto repair supplies. I thought the frame spray looked pretty good.

Back to your gate. Since it won't be exposed to highly corrosive materials like salt, I think a good quality paint should do well. You may want to shoot the lower internal parts of the frame with a good anti-rust coating. The Ace Hardware stuff looked to be a good candidate and it's inexpensive. I'm torn about drilling weep holes. If it's air/water tight, then it shouldn't rust from inside. So, the added protection of the anti-rust coating should keep the inside of the tubing in good shape. Regarding the outside, as long as it has a durable coating, it should hold up for a long time. The places I'd be concerned with are where water will sit. I'd put extra anti-rust coating in those areas. I'd also make sure the lower part of the exterior is coated as well. Then apply a good, strong paint (you should be able to get Imron) or powder coat. Do maintenance every 5 years or so and the gate will last a lifetime.

Good luck with your project!

I don't know if the panel is galvanized or not,but I would recommend galvanized if available.Of course,welding on galvanized is not recommended due to toxic fumes.You will be supporting over 350 pounds so do not cut corners on the main pivot post.A little more spent on concrete now will not be missed after the job is done,but regrets of a poorly mounted post will haunt you forever.You can't have too much concrete on a job like this.(I am sure someone will give examples of too much concrete,excessive cost,etc., but on a single personal job like this, more is justified.)When in doubt,add more concrete.Of course,I am a suspenders-and-belt kind of guy.

There was a comment that an engineer would do a job for one pound (Sterling) when a mechanic does it for one shilliing.

Most of the answers tend to be that way. Any welded structure is much more prone to rusting than, say a plain M.S.tube or sheet. The only way is to paint it regularly and the question was as to how paint could reach the crevices below the panel proposed to be attached. My reply, was at least practical.

Another better way would be to fasten the panel with SS wire to the already painted gate , so that, unpainted areas are avoided.

Wish I had the money for this gate, Here is an update on how I am going to proceed, there were a lot of good suggestions. I did find a metal shop to shear my panels, 20 bucks, it was done. I decided to use 3/16 " SS pop rivets for attachment, glad I have an old TWA air hydraulic rivet. gun. I am waiting for my clecos and tool to get here. Found some #11 cobalt twist drills for buck a piece on Ebay. I can rent a mag drill for $85.00/day for drilling, never used one so hope it will stay put to match drill through panels and tubing. Checked with support at Rust-Olium and they recommended there red oxide primmer (two coats) with a week drying time and then two coats of there hammer finish paint . Going to hang everything in the car port for my paint booth.

Should be getting this done by next week, will post some pics when done. Thanks everybody for suggestions

When drilling, make sure you use a pointed punch and put a divot in the metal. It'll hold the drill bit in place when you start drilling.

I've used Cobalt drill bits and they are fantastic. The last a long time and are strong - they don't snap as easily as the TI coated bits.

Sounds like you have a great plan. Show us the finished work when you're done!

I ended up using a Harbor Freight 1/2" drill, two horizontal handles for good equal pressure. Put a wooden dowel with hole threw for drill stop. Drilled around a 100 holes in about a couple of hours, with same bit, it didn't show any ware , that's almost 2 feet of mild steel. It's been so humid here in Kansas City, that I had sanded the original rust of the panels, and was going to prime the next day and had to sand them again since they surface rusted in my shop over night, panel and frame primed know, going to let bake hanging in the carport for a week before I spray finish coats.

Be careful letting primered metal sit in humid weather. The primer absorbs moisture and even though it's Rustoleum, it could become an issue. If you used the auto primer and sealer, it'll keep humidity out.

Remember that the primer is the coating to make sure the paint adheres to the metal. The primer sticks to metal well and paint sticks to primer well. The porous (not sure if this is the right word) nature of primer is what makes the paint stick well. The same nature also allows water to stick as well, unless there's a sealer to keep the water out.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the info, I used a Valspar Tractor and implement Red Oxide Primer, under the metal carport it gets over a 100 when the sun is out, thought it would help cure it for my second coat of primer

Looks great! Nice job....

Thanks, so far no ones run into it, never was worried when it was an old farm gate and a couple of I beams sticking out of the ground.

Nice job! And that's your driveway???

Costs have really gone up, in 1989, I paid around 3 grand for the blacktop, its about 400ft long and lasted about 30 years, to get it resurfaced with about 2 inches, cost went up to 14k, still cheaper than concrete