The Fight to Control Your Own Automobile Data Access

I don't know if they're spying on me. Let me ask Alexa!

I just asked Alexa if Amazon is spying on me. I didn't get a straight answer.

What, you didn't notice the EULA hidden in the car purchase contract fine print?

...or was it just implied.....

https://www.1e.com/news-insights/blogs/when-did-i-click-accept-for-the-eula-for-my-new-car/

I wonder how hard it would be to install a Faraday shield around the entire ECM?

This would prevent wireless transmission unless handshake signals are sent periodically and loss of handshake would result in shutdown of the vehicle,or put it in a "limp to dealer shop" mode.

I am sure they have or will think of that.

Big business is now in charge,dumbing down of the public is succeeding.

Most millennials can not even change a tire,much less repair a car.

They blindly do what the dealer tells them.

There are some exceptions,of course,but the old fashioned get your hands dirty and figure it out is a dying skill.

As the old vehicles age out,the industry will have more and more control of your data and your choices.

Steer-by-wire,brake-by-wire and all other controls will be gradually taken away from the consumer,and they will not know or care.

You do not boil a frog by dropping it into hot water,you put it in cold water and raising the temperature gradually.

They will never leave the nest built by big business,with their mouths open waiting to be fed by the Big Bird Of Paradise.

Google has gotten into the business of censoring what is posted on their sites and banning certain content in their searches.

That is one reason I don't use Google anymore.

But Google is buying up the smaller search engines,so eventually,it will not matter.

A private individual will have to create or use an "onion type" router to get a dissenting opinion on anything .

Passwords will be useless with the advent of Quantum computers.

The Dystopian future of Ray Bradbury is coming.

Dissenting opinions will not exist,and the sheep (people) will be fed their Pablum to keep them consuming.

They must consume to keep the wheels turning,so they will be fed their Minimum Daily Requirement of information and the illusion of freedom.

Sure,this sounds like Chicken Little but I have seen enough to convince me that the news from the future is good for big business,but not so good for the average citizen.

A little tin hat-ish....I think it's just that regulation trails behind technology a bit, in time it will catch up...

Vigilantia aeterna.

I am not a true pessimist,I am positively certain of the foresight and prophesy of the great sci fi writers.

As far as being paranoid,yes I may be to a certain extent,but I would describe it as more like vigilant.

Pretium libertatis est vigilia aeternia

A watched pot never boils--over.

..."Driving offered a way for the wealthy to escape the confines of the city and tour rural areas. They could sputter along dirt roads, kicking up dust and taking the fresh country air. The sight of such excursions soon became common, spoiling the afternoon jaunts of those who preferred to tour the countryside by foot. Prominent German sociologist Werner Sombart complained of a brave new world where “one person was permitted to spoil thousands of walkers’ enjoyment of nature.” And C. E. M. Joad, an English philosopher, decried car-driving as “one of the most contemptible soul-destroying and devitalizing pursuits that the ill-fortune of misguided humanity has ever imposed upon its credulity.” He added, “Everyone knows that the only way to see the country is to walk in it.” "...

https://pilcrow.squarespace.com/stories/car-hatred

Well there better not be any cars on the hiking trails I use.

Jerry Reed has an opinion on automobiles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOMcAlO7rQ

Lord Mr. Ford,What have you done! Love that song.

I can not speak for other car companies. When you buy a Tesla is is made very clear to you that the car is in communication with Tesla and with other Teslas. It is spelled out clearly what information is captured and what is done with it. At this time Tesla is not using owner data as an income stream because they sell cars not data. The data generated by my Tesla is quite complex and would be of little value to most since it primarily details how the car is functioning.

The Nav system is separate from the car data stream and allows you to opt in or out of the common stream. This allows A Tesla on I 95 to tell other Teslas in the same area on that road that something has brought things to a stop and the Teslas approching the area reroute.

Also now available is Sentry Mode. This allows you to set the alarm system in your Tesla to activate and record from the cameras and microphones if something gets too close to the car or something hits it. It then transmits this to Tesla in ral time and notifies you on the App that something has triggered the alarm. So far over two dozen attacks on Teslas have been recorded and prosecuted as well as people breaking in and getting caught because well, we have you on video.

Yes, Teslas have a black box. One that is far more capable than any other. As the reviewer from the New York Times discovered the hard way. It identified the guy had driven in circles for almost a half hour trying to kill the battery in the parking lot where the superchargers were. He then "made up" a story about how it ran out of electricity and he couldn't find a charger. When confronted with the data he, red faced, retracted the review and was then fired. Why people hate on these cars is way beyond anything I ever learned in my degree program for psychology.

The box records and send this data to Tesla anytime something odd, unusual or out of place is occurring with the car or the way you are driving it. Never before has a car company been able to improve the cars simple by sending an update because never before has there been a car that was this integrated or computerized. Tesla is constantly making improvements based on real world data in real time. I read the entire Tesla EULA which made Googles look like it was written NOT to be read. Very clear, very concise, clearly stated that your data is used only by Tesla to "improve the car and your experience."

Google Car and Apple Auto are something folks should really be concerned about as these "services" do nothing to make your car better. Ah, but they do track your every move and that info is sold to their "third party partners". Something to think about.

Yeah, give it time....What are you going to do when they demand that you sign off on a new TOS agreement or else? You are not immune...You don't own the operating system for that car...

Possible my friend. At least with Tesla the OS is proprietary so the ability to use the data would require specific permissions and SDK's for anyone to be able to parse it.

Of course I am not really certain what information the car is collecting that would be of interest to advertisers. Then there is my basic, I've got nothing to hide position. I live my life in the open, unafraid. I understand that is not what others do, but that's not my problem.

Now if some day they make it so tire manufacturer can look at your driving style and recommend the right tire, is that bad? If it gets you more miles per tire?

What do you see is the danger is my question?

The trackers record everything you look at on the internet, then they advertise it on every site you visit...I get that now, they target what you look at, as opposed to what you are actually interested in...Now when you are shopping for something, do you buy from vendors who approach you uninvited, or do you prefer to seek out the best deal you can find for your circumstance? Then are you always looking to buy, or just curious and exploring? This is the problem, it's unwanted advertising that assumes everything you look at on the internet you're interested in buying, and anything related to that...Then they continue even if you've already purchased something, they continue to advertise it....It's sloppy, it doesn't work, it's intrusive, unwanted, annoying...I mean that's the whole reason we have search engines, to find what we want, I don't need some useless echo broadcasting my movement on the internet....

Ok, I understand that aspect of using a web browser or clicking through a link on FB.

If I use the web browser in the car I am actually using Google unless I opt for a different search engine. The Cars OS is not integrated with these features. They are stand alone and all that goes with that. This is made clear as purchase. And it is optional not standard. A standard plus will not have all the luxury interconnectivity that the higher models have. Consumerism at its American best.The same goes for streaming media services. When using those, whether on your phone, at your home or in your car you are using an outside service and are responsible for understanding the EULA of that service.

If I use Google navigation I get "Googled". but why would I, the Tesla system is better and more helpful for the driver of an electric car who is not interested in gas prices. When using the web browser I sign in through my Microsoft account and then am protected by their EULA and commitment to the European data security standard.

But these are all features that have nothing to do with the operation of the car which is what the Tesla OS is concerned with. Even with the bounty and unlimited access no one has been able to hack into a Tesla without a physical connection to the car and then with very little success at getting data and none at controlling anything short of the radio. LoL. So for the moment I am not concerned about anyone jailbreaking my cars OS.

AS for commercial application of the data the system collects, I am not sure how much use my cars functioning condition is marketable. Not saying some enterprising individual wont figure something out. If you have your cell phone your location is being tracked. They don't need my car for that. The data security of your cell phone would be a more pressing concern to me given how much of our personal information is now stored or accessible through it.

Well what would happen if Tesla went out of business and your car was bricked...Who is going to fix it? Can you go to any repair shop like a regular car? Therein lies the problem, dealers are trying to control repairs by requiring that the vehicle be serviced at the dealer who, as we all know, charges high prices.. Cars should be easy to service and repair, so that the cost of ownership doesn't overprice the freedom of personal transportation...Who wants to live in a society where only the rich can afford automobile ownership...?

The Rich.

Part of me sees Tesla as enabling this transition where only the rich Own cars. The rest of us ride share in fleet owned autonomous cars.

I considered that aspect. Tesla is financially beyond folding so that is not a worry. If anyone but Musk was heading it I would be concerned about a sell out. But as for my personal data that is available on the cars system, nothing more than you can get from a records search. Title, Registration, Insurance records are all public to some degree.
for instance, when using a supercharger. I do not swipe a card or enter anything. When I plug the car in the car communicates with Tesla. Tesla has my financial info and processes the payment for the use. The information is not on the cars system.

Not really sure what would be of interest to an advertiser in my cars data.

If history has taught us anything it's that any company can go broke...Tesla still loses about a billion dollars a year, last I checked....

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/65252/the-very-public-failures-of-16-famous-businesses

....besides the focus of this thread is about car companies in general trying to restrict others from working on their cars through proprietary systems, warranty agreements and other devious methods...The app's used in your car is another thing altogether...

lastly, I wouldn't worry too much about it. All the car companies are trying to do right now is figure out some way to do over the air updates. I think Corvette is the first non Tesla American company to attempt it. They are supposedly trying it on the new Vette and we'll have to see how that works out. The simple fact of the matter is your car is pretty stupid. It has computers for everything and they don't talk to each other or work together and unless its plugged in it does not talk to its company and never to its owner.

..."The Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act, sometimes also referred to as Right to Repair, is a name for several related proposed bills in the United States Congress and several state legislatures which would require automobile manufacturers to provide the same information to independent repair shops as they do for dealer shops ."...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Vehicle_Owners%27_Right_to_Repair_Act

...and it's not just cars, anybody that has an iphone knows the frustration of dealing with Apple products, you buy the song and you can only use it with itunes, and only on 5 devices...they brick your phone at the drop of a hat...

..."As of March, around 20 states had considered right-to-repair bills to protect consumers’ ability to fix their property—be it through parts, software, or a network of local third-party businesses that keeps repairs accessible and affordable—and not just designated manufacturer partners, though some of those bills, such as one in Washington, are no longer active. These bills essentially aim to break the monopolistic death grip that companies have on unnecessarily expensive repairs and instead allow consumers to decide who they want to fix their stuff, be it an independent repair shop, a skilled friend, or hell, even themselves."...

https://gizmodo.com/right-to-repair-is-less-complicated-and-more-important-1834672055

https://repair.org/stand-up

It is difficult to repair your own stuff now,but it will get worse as the internet of things becomes widely implemented and everything becomes connected to the "NET"(AKA BORG ).

There will be a few stragglers from previous generations but as they die off,dependence will become universal.

Total electric vehicles will become the norm,and everything will be software controlled,and it will be accepted as normal.

A few people will be necessary for programming,and a few for the ultimate hardware failures,but these people will be separated and compartmentalized so that no one will know the entire system.

People are naturally lazy,and will accept anything that makes things easier.

Look at all of the remote controls available now--even Ceiling fans,not to mention all of the other gadgets that are touch of a button or screen.

Soon that effort will be eliminated with brain interfaces,so just think about it,and it happens.

Kind of like a Genie.

The danger here is that eventually the Genie becomes the master,and a Coronal Mass Ejection or enemy EMP could find everyone in a totally dependent state,unable to do anything for themselves.

If you wish to see the potential impact,check out this link:

https://virily.com/virily_poll/what-would-happen-if-a-solar-mass-ejection-struck-the-earth/

Just because everybody isn't hyper-active, I wouldn't call them lazy...Just normal...When there's a job to be done you can rely on us to do it, otherwise a few conveniences is well deserved...You seem to think the general public is helpless and stupid, you must be a lefty....as for your dystopian day dreams, they are only useful for planning, not predictions of the future...never bet against a winner...

Here is a real dystopian outlook:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N03Uoj6p9QA

Look around how helpless people are without electricity.

No gas pumps,no refrigeration,no air conditioning,no heat,no lights,no traffic control,gridlock in the big cities.

There are only half a dozen critical transformers for the entire US power grid.

A Coronal Mass Ejection could fry them all at once.

There are no spares.They would have to be built from scratch.

It is not a matter of IF a CME will strike us,it is just a matter of when.

Dystopian or realist,either title is fine with me, because it doesn't matter;whatever will be will be.

I hope I am wrong,but I may be right.

People are not helpless without electricity, otherwise nobody would go camping, hunting or fishing....sure it's a disruption, an inconvenience, but people adapt over time....people survived for thousands of years without electricity....and anybody can go buy a generator now and produce their own electricity, a grid is convenient and cheaper, but not absolutely necessary... and I might add I think the grid is a lot more stable then you seem to think...

I think all people,myself included,will always take the path of least resistance if given a choice.

Even a minor annoyance will be avoided if possible.

A person will walk all over the house to find a remote control for the TV,so they can sit down and control it remotely.

That is human nature,but as more and more things become automatic,people become more and more detached and isolated.

Common sense has never been very plentiful,but it is becoming less observable today.

I saw a graduate student try to get liquid from a drum that was standing upright on a cart,with a faucet handle on the top.

Nothing came out of the spout,so he said the drum was empty.

He didn't realize that he had to tilt the cart back to make the liquid come out of the faucet.

I felt sorry for the guy.

He was not stupid,he just did not have any common sense.

He had never encountered a situation that required it.

I consider myself blessed to have been born in a time period when basic common skills were taught and required.

Remember,left handed people are the only ones in their right mind.

So it's easy to travel back in time, just visit a third world country and see if you are remembering the past accurately, or perhaps you are experiencing a romantic fantasy that has been fabricated from bits and pieces of treasured memories and the time you speak of so fondly, in reality, never existed....cuz that's what I'm thinking...the past sucked...

I have not explained myself adequately.I do not miss plowing with a mule,milking cows by hand,shoveling out stables,no refrigeration or air conditioning and central heat and modern plumbing.

I know there are places in the world that still live that way.

The danger as I see it,is becoming too dependent on technology to do even the smallest tasks for us,and becoming distant from each other in the process.

I realize there are still areas of the world that live as we did in the '20's or before,and I do not wish to return to those days;that is not what I am trying to say.

But I see a time when we can become so dependent on technology that if it fails,a lot of people will be like a fish out of water.

The modern generations were born into the cellphone and computer age and have always had them and they are very adept with the new technology.

When they go camping,they take everything with them.

There are still many among us that would know how to survive without modern technology,but the percentage of these skilled independent survivors is decreasing.

There will still be hunters for a few more generations,but eventually they will vanish,and the general populace of the Modern world will be totally dependent on the technological teat to provide everything.

The difference between medicine and poison is the dosage.

I do not wish to return to the skullduggery of my past,but I feel that I could if the need arose,and it would not be a totally foreign concept.

I am glad I have had the experience of self sufficiency.

When a natural disaster strikes,like a hurricane,they always rely on the older generations for basic tasks.I have seen it personally.

I will be smoke and dust before all of this occurs,and I hope I am wrong.

I hope you are right,that we can survive and become the Jetson-like perfect world that some imagine.

Insofar as me being a "lefty" if you mean a left wing political advocate,you are wrong.

I am not a socialist,nor an anarchist nor, a bleeding heart liberal,or a middle of the road fence straddling politician.

I am not a member of any political pigeon hole.

I try to remain independent as much as possible and do not rely on a single media source for my information,rather seeking out an objective,broad world wide view of events.

I also realize that this is just my opinion,and there are billions more that differ.