In Need of Expert Advice

I was on the edge of my seat :)
It's supposed to end with the girl swooning into your arms and saying "my hero"
Del

That was a very intense end to the hike. We were both very concerned, but neither of us panicked. I knew that a bear that size could do some serious damage, so I was hoping he'd go his own way.

I've run into a Chicago Bear. Rather than try to charge through I chose another avenue.

Crazy story. I'd say she was on the menu first and you turned the situation into a buffet. Well not really. You saved her ass.

Clanging and shouting all the way. Don't forget to put your hands in the air to look bigger too.

Way too close man. Glad you're ok.

The gal was in her early 20's (my guess) and 115 lbs or so. For some reason, the bear was stalking us - hunger or for sport? I don't know. The situation is still bothering me and I realize he could've attacked - that would've been ugly!

Last night I watched a youtube video on bear spray. It makes a cloud of pepper spray in front of the bear. Because it's a cloud, the bear has to walk into it to get to me. The only problem is if there's any wind. I bought some pepper spray instead - the kind that sprays a stream of pepper. Range is 12 feet and I can spray it the bear's eyes and mouth if he attacks.

I read that you waive your arms and try to look bigger - good advice.

Wow. You think you've got problems, here in Australia we get stalked by Wombats and Echidnas on a regular basis, now they're really dangerous, but nothing compared to those sneaky drop bears that wait for you to pass under their ambush tree and then pop down on your head and grab you by the throat.

Seriously though, you lot often talk about the plethora of dangerous critters over here, but they're nothing compared to your collection.

I hike around our wonderful country all of the time and have rarely seen even a snake that would have concerned me, but when hiking in British Columbia a few years ago we came across a very belligerent Elk that was quite intent on ruining our day, and then later on as it was getting a bit later than I would have liked to be out there, I was pretty sure I was going to meet up with a Puma or a Bear that may have wanted to munch on my carcass, a spare change of undies would have helped.

We have nothing over here that even comes close to being able to instill fear or inflict the kind of damage as you guys have there.

We get tired of walking, we open the swag and sleep under the stars with absolutely no concern that anything hungrier than a bull-ant will come nosing around.

If I had been with you, you would have been slipping and sliding in the detritus trying to keep up with me, take care out there and be safe.

I've seen so many rattlesnakes - I still don't like 'em, but I'm comfortable, because I know what to expect. They can only jump 1/2 the length of their body and only jump when their coiled. They also rattle when they feel threatened, so watch and listen for the rattle - you'll know when you hear it!

I've never seen a mountain lion in the wild. I've been told that you're in trouble if you see one, because you surprised it. I've seen a stuffed - if you're in Torey Pines, go to the ranger station and they have one on display. They look menacing and you don't want to get in a fight with one!

Bobcats - yes. Coyotes - yes. Deer - of course. Elk - only in the Grand Canyon. I was told they can be very dangerous when they're rutting. Buffalo - in Yellowstone, but at a distance. Then the bears! Many years ago, we backpacked to Little Yosemite Valley. We heard banging pans and sure enough, a small bear had entered their tent, looking for food. On another hike, we were in Sequoia or Kings Canyon and we saw a momma and baby bears way in front of us. They were California Black Bears and they weren't too big. We never say them again, as we completed our hike. We also saw a momma with 3 cubs walking on the road in The Grand Teton's She was huge! We stayed in our car and she passed in front of the car in front of us.

This was the first time I've been this close to a bear and I sure didn't like how he stalked us.

You've slanted the story to fit your fantasy but hiding in there is the actual truth that you unwittingly wrote.

"I was about 1/4 mile from the trailhead when I passed a gal who was standing on the side of the trail and was on her cell phone.

I said hi and she said something to me as I passed. I didn't hear and I was in a hurry, because the sun had set and light was fading fast."

What she said was "Have a nice evening." hoping you'd be the bear's supper so she could stroll by while he was enjoying the finer parts of the human noodle.

I'm just kidding.

It was a good story and it should keep the grandchildren spooked all night.

I read that California Black Bear attacks RARELY end up in death!

Last night, I read some articles about people being stalked by a bear. Yes, I think we were being stalked.

Wow, that's a close call. The bear we saw was a lot bigger. I'm glad he didn't get up on two legs - I don't know what I would've done. Fight him off? I don't know.

Great video - thanks for sharing.

Back when I lived in Alaska, there was a stuffed Kodiak standing on its hind legs in the Anchorage airport. As I recall, its waist was about eye level. I can't even imagine meeting a live one!

Tiger vs bear....which would win?

That was funny!

The second part was pretty intense. Thank goodness we don't have Tigers out here ... though back in 2005 a local large cat collector allowed his tiger to escape from their ranch in Moorpark, which is right next to Simi Valley. I lived across the street (Madera) from the Reagan Library at the time. The tiger roamed free for about a month, moving from Thousand Oaks/Camarillo area to Moorpark and then to Simi Valley. A resident saw the tiger in his back yard and called the police - they took him down (killed, not tranquilized). The tiger had done some hunting in the area and there was a terrible accident, where horses ran into the road and wound up killing a man and injuring a lady (car accident).

Needless to say, I didn't do any hiking or mtn bike riding while the tiger was on the loose!

thats a ligar. for some reason when the cross a tiger and a lion they get a huge cat.

"...for some reason..."

The name of the reason is heterosis (also known as hybrid vigor).

When two different species produce a (usually sterile) hybrid, the gametes are close to as different from each other as is possible while still producing a viable offspring.

This leads to a minimum of homozygous pairs and thus a maximum of heterozygous pairs. This likely frees the hybrid offspring of multiple deleterious recessive traits. Thus the hybrids often experience notable vigor compared to non hybrids.

Similar effects are seen in outcrossing a heavily line bred parents.

Heterosis/hybrid vigor is nearly the opposite of inbreeding depression.

Here is an explanation of the difference between a Liger and a Tigon,both hybrids of lions and tigers.Tigons are much smaller than ligers.

Female lions carry a growth inhibitor,but female tigers do not, so when the female is a tiger,the offspring are much larger than either parent.

https://animals.mom.me/difference-between-ligers-tigons-3506.html

The linked article seems to play a bit fast and loose with its 'facts'. I'd love to check the references, but it only list a number of references used and not anything that links or names the reference material.

There are several problems in the article, including:

-the implication of female tigers and female lions being of significantly different size,

-the claims about average and max weights of various big cats (male tigers only 500 lbs and male lions max at 600 lbs?!? Average liger weight at 1000 lbs when the Guiness book record of largest cat is less than 1000 lbs!?!)

-seemingly intractable confusion over the parentage of tigons in the section about viability.

.

To your credit HiTek, the part you mention about growth inhibitors and growth promoters appears to be the prevailing theory among those writing with an air of authority while being able to keep their facts, at least, self consistent.

No thank you! What in the world would you do if it attacked!

Well in the good ole days we could have scheduled a tune-up fight for you, before meeting the bear head-on in the wild, you would gain some experience...

Bar Wraslin'...

You gotta be kidding! Wow, those are some real outdoorsmen!

A guide at Yellowstone was showing us the difference between black bear scat and grizzly bear scat.He said it was very important to know the difference.

Black bear scat will have squirrel fur,and bits of nuts and berries in it.

Grizzly bear scat will have pieces of tennis shoes and smell like pepper spray.

black bear are big racoons. brown bears will attack if they are guarding a kill or with cubs. or if an old bear that cannot catch its meals anymore and is starving.

browns do not start eating protein until they need to fatten up for the winter. most of the year they eat berries and bugs.

black bears are usually eating garbage at a dump.

i wouldnt let a bear smell my hair, reminded me of... nevermind.

I've seen some pretty aggressive raccoons here ... and some are as big as a medium size dog!

I heard from people who live near the mountain who told me the bears are down in the neighborhood all the time, rummaging through the trash bins. It's their grocery store!

You should have pulled out your 45 and gave a warning shot, then aimed at the heart if the bear wasn't in full retreat....all bears must die.....

That's a huge bear! The one we saw wasn't that big!

better carry something bigger than a 45, need at least a .44mag, i would feel better with my .454casul.

I have encountered black bears on a number of occasions while hiking in the mountains of New England, and have never had a problem with them. They tend to mind their own business as long as I mind my own. The only problem people have had with black bears in the wild, is when they interfere with the bear's feeding or their cubs.

The trouble starts when human civilization encroaches on their territory. The thing is, black bears like the same food as humans do, and they really like our "leftovers". When humans and bears live in the same area, the bears tend to become dependant on our garbage as their primary food source. The other problem, especially in parks, is people intentionally feeding the bears.

The bear that you encountered was probably not interested in eating you, he was just looking for loot. "Stand and deliver! Your hotdogs or your life"

This is just regarding black bears. Brown or grizzly bears, that's another matter

The last time I visited Alaska, the tour guide on the train was giving some advice: "Wear bells on your jacket so you don't surprise bears. They want to avoid you as much as you want to avoid them. If things go bad, you can always have a can of pepper spray."

Once he had all of us tourists enrapt, he went on to describe the appearance of the scat of black bears. The scat of brown bears is very similar except that it is often found with little bells and the smell of pepper spray.

Here in LA, the scat has a Louis Vuitton wallet in it!

I heard that you don't want to surprise a bear. Talking loud is a good idea, but the other hikers may think I'm crazy. And pepper spray for a last resort.

When I was a teenager, my friend somehow got a can of Mace. He sprayed it in the air and the wind blew some back at us. It'll stop anything!

Actually, my advice in the situation that you encountered and the location where you were, is this: The bear you encountered was probably familiar with humans. His interest was not in you, but rather the food that you might be carrying.

• If you have any food items on your person, even a granola bar, give it to him.
• if you are carrying a back pack with food or even if it had food in it, leave it. The bear"s sense of smell is very keen. He will go after the back pack rather than you.
• If you are camping, never leave food in your tent. or near where you are sleeping.
• As a last resort, stand quietly, in a non threatening posture, and let the bear smell you. If you have nothing to offer, he will go away and wait for the next victim to walk down the trail.

If this incident occurred in a park area, report it to the park authorities. They will attempt to trap the problem bear and relocate it to a more remote area.

Again, this only applies to black bears

You know, I had a wrapper from a Cliff Bar (Macadamia and White Chocolate) - the wrapper smells pretty good and a Gu Gel wrapper in the mesh part of my pack. And I had a full Cliff Bar and another Gu Gel deeper in the pack.

Though I'm pretty sure I was stinky - I had been sweating heavily for 7 hours. I'm not sure how the bear smelled anything buy me. Yes, it was that bad!

The gal I met told me that she's seen bears in the neighborhood on numerous occasions. Digging in the trash, etc. So 1/4 mile out is a reasonable trip for a bear. The bear definitely wasn't starving - he was pretty solid looking. I thought about why he came back after us and I don't know the answer. I sure felt like he was stalking us. When we were walking down the trail, I was looking for a big rock I could throw at the bear if he attacked. Many years ago, I was told to be loud and look as big as I could. The idea is to have the bear realize that I'm going to fight and there's a good chance he'll get hurt, so let's not do this - you go your way and I'll go mine.

10 Signs a Bear is Stalking You

1. #1. It takes a second look. ...
2. #2. Check for paw prints or fresh droppings in your vicinity. ...
3. #3. Constant Gifts. ...
4. #4. You keep “running into” each other when you're out of the house. ...
5. #5. Constant phone calls. ...
6. #6. It keeps “accidentally” leaving things at your house. ...
7. #7. Your dog is dead. ...
8. #8.

https://www.bearmageddonnews.com/2016/10/11/10-signs-a-bear-is-stalking-you/

I had found the same joke on the internet last night. I live 4 miles from the trailhead and I had a thought going thru my head. The bear would smell his way to my house, then come in at night and kill me. I leave the patio door open at night (only leave the screen shut), so he could easily break in.

Funny how our minds think.

I can't bear another joke!

Grin and Bear it!

A reporter was interviewing a woman that had outrun a grizzly bear.

"Did you have a weapon?"

"Yes,a .22 pistol."

"Did you shoot him with it?"

"Three times"

"You mean three shots from a .22 pistol stopped a grizzly?"

"No.My husband....I shot him in the knee three times and I got away"

If you go down in the woods today, you better not go alone
It's lovely down in the woods today, but safer to stay at home
For every bear that ever there was will gather there for certain
Because today's the day the teddy bears have their picnic

A friend of mine and his wife always hike in the woods with two friends:

1. Her .357 mag
2. His .44 mag

He freely admits that their two friends might not keep them safe but they feel better having them along.

I've found the perfect solution, just carry one of these inflatable bears in your backpack and deploy in emergency situations....

That together with this handy portable bullhorn, should scare the bejesus out of any bear....

You might want to practice growling for realistic effect...

I have a good movie recommendation to enhance your experience...

I live in the shadow of the Blue Ridge mountains in the Shenandoah Valley. We're a tiny town with the oldest show cave in North America, Grand Caverns, and maybe a mile or so from the Shenandoah National Park border.

We get black bears around here quite often. A couple of weeks ago one of my security cameras caught one loping through my back yard. It looked like a young male out exploring and not at all familiar with human neighborhoods. He looked like he was on his way back towards the Park.

I see them quite often when I'm motorcycling on the back roads, mostly gravel. Living and hiking here you just have to be aware of what's around you and know the suggestions on how to (hopefully) handle the situation to a satisfactory outcome.

However, I do have a concealed carry permit and am rarely without a weapon. At my age running is not much of an option. It was a revelation a few years ago when they changed the rules to allow concealed carry in the national parks. At least now I'm no longer a potential federal felon when I go hiking in the park.

Hooker

My friend told me to carry a gun. He believes that there are some "strange" people who live in the mountains and a gun is a good deterrent - and it's also useful if attacked by a wild animal.

Every year hikers are attacked on the Appalachian Trail or some of the affiliate trails. Here in Virginia we had a "serial" attacker on the AP a few years back. He liked to prey on seniors and women down in the Roanoke area. There seem to be crazies everywhere nowadays, some from the cities who go out on the trails and never think they'll be found. I'm less worried about bears than I am of them when I'm out and about.

And, yes, there are some crazy mountain types too. When I was flying for NASA we took a bullet in our CH-53 while low over the West VA mountains. I didn't find the hole in our belly until we got home and did a post flight inspection. We might've gotten a bit too close to a still in a cove somewhere. It's not a wise idea to wander too far off the established trails. Even the wardens around here warn tourists about that.

Hooker

When I was a teenager, I remember hearing about a person living in the woods near my home. There's a forest preserve that runs from the north side of the city to the botanic gardens. I rode my bike on that trail many, many times. On quiet stretches, I wondered if that predator was watching me.

Sometimes being stalked ain't so bad....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PCbaGipDSU

Ray Stevens!!! When I was a kid, they played his song on the radio. The Streaker song! Good to see he's still making funny songs!

Well first off, this is the exact reason for carrying a side arm.

The bear was curious; you need to make yourself as big as possible, spread your arms and make lots of aggressive noise. It was not with cubs, so that was not an issue. You should have kept the pipe, it was the only weapon you had.

One last question: could you run faster than the girl? If so, both of you should have run!

Yeah, just kidding..

How about an umbrella with a painting of a large skunk rear end,with raised tail in firing position on it,with pepper spray shot from the center just in case..the umbrella would shield you from a back draft,and you may not have to use it if the bear is familiar with skunks.The sudden appearance of a giant skunk in front of the bear when you opened the umbrella might just be enough to make him retreat.

I bought some skunk urine to use while deer hunting and once the bottle was opened,I could never get it to seal odor-proof.

I put the lid on as tight as I could,rinsed the outside with tomato juice,then rinsed with water,and put it in a zip lock bag.

I could still smell it.I finally put it in a mason jar,still in the zip lock, with a fresh jar seal.I left it in my shop all summer.Every time I entered,I got a faint whiff of skunk.

I don't know how they seal it at the factory to keep all the odor in.

Fox urine is arguably even worse!Imagine Bobcat urine X 100 and you have a good estimate of it.Every time it is humid,the smell returns,even years later.

i grew up in an area that had tons of skunks. my dogs would occasionally get sprayed.

the best recipe to rid the skunk smell is to mix bottle of hydrogen proxide, some dish washing soap, half box of baking soda. mix when your going to use it, it doesn't have a shelf life that i am aware of.

wash dog or yourself with this mix. leave on for about 5-10 mins. then rinse off or let the dog swim in a pond. we use to use the tomato juice but the proxide recipe actually works.

In Chicago, we had skunks in the area. One night of mischief, we were playing ding dong ditch and someone came up with the genius idea of doing both sides of the street at the same time. I remember running from a house and a skunk ran in front of me. I jumped over it and kept going. I didn't ring any more door bells that night!

Da Bears! Living close to Chicago, we see them all the time.

Yellowstone Bears are relatively mellow and used to having stupid people around. Still, if you are planning on hiking in the park then bear spray is strongly recommended as are noise makers like bells (a marble in your water bottle is a cool idea, too). The biggest problem is food. They know you have it. The rangers will cover this with you in detail. It is not the ideal, but if you are unable to dissuade the bear, surrendering your granola bars will usually get you clear without further issue. Leaving your backpack can also occupy the bear while you depart.

In the case of this momma grizzly, according to one of the rangers, she wanted her cub to "experience" humans. Brought him to within 25 yards of the roadway so that the cub could see and get used to people and cars. There were a half dozen park rangers just making sure everyone stayed where they belonged and answering questions. It was quite a thrill.

No fence, no safety trench, just 20 yards of open ground between us and the bear.

Thanks for the tips. I agree that food is a huge motivator for bears. I've been told that noise makers will "usually" scare a black bear off.

When I lived in the Chicagoland area, we had a big problem with bears. They kept losing - remember Bob Avelini! Though when Jim McMahon came to town, we finally had good luck with bears.

Thanks for sharing.

I think I'd add a sound grenade to the pepper spray.

I wonder if this 142 dB whistle would work? That way you wouldn't need to worry about batteries going flat just when you needed it.

Or this storm whistle might be better?

Anyone tried either of these or got other sugestions?

Someone mentioned a loud whistle to me. There would be multiple uses - all to draw attention. If I got lost (I shouldn't, but it's possible in the wilderness), if I fell down a cliff or to scare off unwanted visitors (bears, cougars ... even people).

Thanks for the tip! I appreciate it.

None of these devices specifies at what distance their sounds are measured, although this one does say "at the output". Assuming that they are all measuring dB relative to 0.0002 Pa: at 119dB this one appears to be 23dB quieter than the hyperwhistle (142dB).

I find that pretty hard to believe.

Thanks Solar! Someone told me that I may swallow the whistle when a bear is running full speed at me. But these air horns! Just as long as I don't drop it!!!

Update:

Yesterday, I went for my hike into the mountains. There were a lot of people on the trail - much more than I've ever seen. Then I found out that the trail the east had been closed, due to Covid. And the one to the west was by reservation only. I left the normal time and reached the top with only one incident. A small group was screaming and yelling. When I approached, I asked what happened? A rattlesnake had his rattle going and they were scared - really scared. By the time I arrived, the snake was gone.

On the way down, I did my normal walk/jog and this time I added some higher speed runs too. I was waiting to see a bear on the trail, but there were so many people on the trail, they weren't coming out.

I got to the place where we hid from the bear - in the small canyon. My memory was playing tricks on me, because I thought the canyon was much deeper. Here's a picture as I'm walking to the entrance. Here's a picture of the canyon - we were standing behind the boulder the wheel barrel is leaning on - the bolder on the front left is the entrance to the canyon area. It doesn't go much further back than the bolder we were hiding behind. That's the boulder I hit with the pipe as we were trying to scare the bear away.

The mind does play tricks when you're in a stressful situation!

Why I go hiking. I want to share these pictures with you. This is the why.

1. My goal is the mountain behind the one with the antennas. Look at the mountain with the vertical line - you can see the three antennas on top. This is taken from the helicopter landing pad less than 1/2 way to the top. The next picture shows it as I get closer.

2. Closer - I can feel it! I have no idea where I took this picture, but I'm getting closer.

3. Manzanitas Ridge (I'm leaving). I'm less than two miles to the top!

4. Gorgeous view of the Pacific Ocean, Catalina Island (Island way back from left of photo to about 2/3 way to the right edge - it's 26 miles off the coast) and the urban sprawl of Los Angels below.

The pictures don't do it justice. Plus I'm in nature and it's a great feeling to reach the top!

Great view from Lookout Mountain...

The Great Smokey Mountains....spent some time here...

When I was a kid, my dad would take us on annual vacations. I've been to the Great Smoky Mountains and Lookout Mountain. I don't remember much about either place, except that it was a lot higher than any other place I've been (Chicago is pretty flat) and it took forever to get there.

I'd like to see it again. Maybe another road trip???

HEY AUTOBROKER, your gonna love this!

https://nypost.com/2020/08/10/dont-push-your-slower-friends-in-front-of-bears-psa/

Awesome! That's too funny, though I will say that I've been given that advice by many friends, since I told them of my story.

A friend told me that I should only run from a bear if the person I'm hiking with runs slower than me.

Thanks for the laugh!

The only time I encountered a bear was my first day on a summer job where I was a brush-cutter on the Redwood National Park Boundary Survey Project. Being the new guy, I was the last guy, and the most out of shape one, up the hill to join the rest of the crew who were just standing around. After I caught my breath, I stood up straight and I asked them why we were not moving on to the the day's starting work location. They said that if I looked up in the nearby tree, I would see a brown bear cub. After about fifteen minutes, the cub realized we were no danger to it, slid down the tree, and sped off in one a direction to find ''momma''. We immediately vacated the scene in the opposite direction... Heck of a first day on the job...

The brown colored bear was most likely a CA Black Bear. You're lucky the momma bear wasn't around. I heard she's very protective and will do what needs to be done to protect her young.

Most times CA Black Bears will do what they can to avoid people. When they hear you coming, they get out of the area. They call this a bear encounter that you don't know even happened - the best kind!

Thanks for the GA. I don't personally know if it is true or not, but (it has been said that) if you are on the slope of a hill with a bear getting closer to you, that you can run horizontally away from the bear, at it will soon lose interest because it doesn't like running unbalanced along the side of a slope. The trick is to have enough slope to out last the bear...

On the trails I'm on, the only slope is the steep one leading to pain and possible death.

The drop off is substantial and I've always wondered if I could survive if I fell off.

This weekend, I didn't get to go on a hike. It was on the hot side, but I've hiked in higher temps. The reason I didn't go was the fire in Azusa. I didn't want to be up in the mountains if the wind direction changed. That could be very, very dangerous.

I don't know if the trail was even open. I drove by another trailhead and it was closed. It was open last weekend, so I think it was closed due to the fire.

I hope the fire is out. I'd like to go for a hike next weekend!

Update:

We've had the worst luck this year, regarding fires. A couple weekends ago, a new fire called the Bobcat Fire started. I was out on the trail (Sunday morning) and it was a hot one. I was headed to Mt Wilson, but by the time I got to First Water, I was overheated and I needed a break. I found a nice pool of water and cooled off! I hiked back in the canyon a little and noticed there was nobody there - an eerie silence. I decided to turn back - so I turn around and I hear a noise in the hill on the other side of the creek - it's the noise of something big. Then I see it - about 30 feet up the hillside. At first glance, I thought it was a black panther or puma! Now my heart is pumping!!! I got a better look and it's a small black bear - 80 lbs or so. I started clapping and making noise so he could hear me. He turned to look at me and I kept walking. He ran back into the brush and I headed out of the area. Where there's a baby bear, momma can't be too far away!

When I got out of the First Water area, I thought about continuing to Mt Wilson. It was pretty hot and Orchard Camp was next. With so few people on the trail, I was worried the bears would be in the shady areas, so I decided to head back down.

A couple hours later, I looked up in the mountain and the terrible site of smoke from a wildfire. That fire has burned for two weeks and a few days ago it split into two fires. One jumped route 2 and is heading down to Little Rock near Palmdale. The other surrounded Mt Wilson, but the firemen did a great job keeping it away from the radio towers and observatory.

Fire right near the one of the solar telescopes!

Dropping phos-chex in Little Rock.