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Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/07/2021 7:05 AM

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#1

Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/08/2021 12:32 AM

Friend,

Emphasize the "might" in the heading. The storage location has capacity for about 100 years' waste, but the waste has a requirement to be stored for many thousands of years afterward. I doubt that there is enough very old stone formation for a much longer period of addition to it.

Kick the can down the road. The problem appears to be a human addiction to ever-increasing amounts of power and the wasteful use of same.

--JMM

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#2
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/08/2021 2:49 AM

Long enough to find another solution and achieve carbon neutral power generation...Remember the waste can always be mined for reprocessing in the future, or we might finally get fusion reactors coming on line, in either case it's a workable solution...

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#15
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/15/2021 7:27 PM

How can it be workable when we don't have a solution yet? The recycling of the spent rods still leaves highly radioactive wastes. It reduces the quantity but that quantity is still highly radioactive.

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#5
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/08/2021 4:08 PM

I still think we need to go with Gen IV (fast) nuclear reactors. They produce less waste that has to be stored for hundreds (not thousands) of years. They can use the waste from thermal reactors as fuel; in addition, they can use Thorium and Uranium-238 as fuel.

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#3

Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/08/2021 5:12 AM

If I recall correctly this plant is built by the Russians, SC Rosatom.

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#4
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/08/2021 5:36 AM

They have 2 Russian designed PWR's, but these newer ones are BWR's ...

..."The Loviisa Nuclear Power Plant is located close to the Finnish town of Loviisa. It houses two Soviet-designed VVER-440/213 PWR reactors, with capacities of 507 MW each. It is one of Finland's two nuclear power plants, the other being the three-unit Olkiluoto Nuclear Power Plant. Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teollisuuden_Voima

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/finland.aspx

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#6

Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/10/2021 7:30 AM

Same old "solution", store it for 50000 years. Out of sight out of mind until an earthquake, drilling, terrorism, or whatever lets it escape sometimes during the 50000 year storage. And, how much more is going to be stored during this 50000 year storage period? I'll repeat myself, nuclear waste is the biggest engineering failure of all time.

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#7
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/10/2021 12:51 PM

It's not an engineering failure at all....it's a political failure if anything...We have the technology to burn this waste in a fast reactor through reprocessing....other countries do this and we do it at a small scale...So in the US we have the ability to make this go away, we just choose not to....Just like I have told you this several times, but you choose not to hear it, that doesn't mean it ain't so...

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#8
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/10/2021 2:05 PM

The sensible thing to do is paint the containment vessels luminous green and put them in the dessert for animals to make homes in and on. No one will notice them at all. If they do they will think them cute, with lots of furry and fluffy animals living there. A bit like making a coral reef from our junk and claiming it lovely and natural. An animal adventure park for tourist to come and view. No one will notice and they can all take some radiation home with them as a souvenir. Perfect solution.

And there will be no fear of covid, that's for sure!

On a serious note, these containers are well built and sturdy. I recall as a kid, (Yes I was once a childs age too), watching a programme about the vessels being rammed by speeding trains (DELTICS) and wrecking the train and the vessel stayed intact.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=nuclear+c%3dvessels+being+tested&&view=detail&mid=A70BE6A844D07DC78017A70BE6A844D07DC78017&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dnuclear%2Bc%253dvessels%2Bbeing%2Btested%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

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#9
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/10/2021 2:32 PM

The video will also disprove the previous thread of "Will a bug/BB stop a train". Pretty big bug will do with disastrous results.

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#10
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/10/2021 3:12 PM

They could use the containment vessels to heat shelters for the homeless in winter...

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#11

Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/14/2021 11:14 PM

Someday in the distance future some Capitalist will find a use for what we call Nuclear Waste.

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#12
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/15/2021 3:30 AM

Whoever or whatever finds an economical way to neutralize the nuclear waste should get stock in the company that does it. Then, they could retire to the ranch and live happily ever after.

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#13
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/15/2021 6:02 PM

Even today we have a way to utilize lots of nuclear waste--that's why I like to use the words "used fuel" instead of "waste." With reprocessing, the "waste" from thermal neutron nuclear reactors can be used as fuel in Generation IV (fast neutron) reactors. This consumes the long-lived and highly radioactive elements and uses them to produce electricity. Research into fast reactors was stopped for political reasons in 1994 or we would probably have it operational by now. Yes, fast reactors will have waste, but about 1/100 the amount. That smaller amount will be less radioactive and for a few hundred years instead of many thousands. The fast reactor can also use as fuel thorium and uranium-238; we have an abundance of both.

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#14

Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/15/2021 6:50 PM

Friends,

I read many comments telling the advantages of fast reactors compared to slow neutron reactors, citing harmful radiation levels lasting hundreds instead of thousands of years as a primary one. Yet problems remain.

My personal experience with nuclear chemistry and as a worker in a conventional nuclear power plant during refueling and retrofitting shutdowns points to the very real problem with contamination of everything that contacts the radioactive materials and their surroundings. To one extent or another everything becomes radioactive, although not to the high levels we associate with spent fuel and the reactor core. You always wear film badges and often have additional detectors, you only use previously irradiated tools inside the contaminated areas, you have a full-body scintillation count when the employment is over (with the results becoming a lifetime medical record), you are scanned every time you leave the area (clothing confiscated if radioactive and special cleaning of skin right there and then), etc. All these diminish but don't eliminate the spread of radiation, so additional storage is needed for the comparatively and mostly short half-life isotopes.

The problem is no less real and no less pernicious than that of carbon dioxide pollution of our atmosphere. The carbon dioxide problem is less visible but equally harmful to us. So, as I stated at the beginning, when do we minimize our addiction to ever-increasing wasteful consumption of energy? Do we really need cars that can accelerate from 0 to over 100 kph in less than 3 seconds? When will we get rid of our addiction to and worship of power, money, size, speed, etc.?

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#16
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/15/2021 7:33 PM

If we can get energy safely, we gonna get it. We don't need beasts of burden to get our energy. The more affordable, safe energy, the better the quality of life.

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#17
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/16/2021 4:09 AM

..."When will we get rid of our addiction to and worship of power, money, size, speed, etc.?"...

When we are all hooked on drugs and homeless, the death of society....

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#18
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/16/2021 4:29 AM

I think the new end date is between 2175 and 2190 when the planet gets smashed by a giant meteor called 2021 NY1. So if you are going to have a coffee, have it now as the electric could go off soon.

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#19
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/17/2021 12:43 AM
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#20
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Re: Finland's Answer to Storing Nuclear Waste Solved

09/17/2021 4:01 AM

Read that too recently.

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