Previous in Forum: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars   Next in Forum: Hydrogen Production From Seawater and Wind
Close
Close
Close
20 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270

How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

04/30/2023 11:11 AM

How small is the black hole "point of no return"?(PONR)

Is it thin enough to "inhale" a single electron from an element,or single photon,or half of a quantum pair?Is the boundary infinitely small,or dimensionless?

What are the actually boundaries of the PONR?

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#1

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

04/30/2023 3:04 PM

The event horizon is the "point of no return" around the black hole. It is not a physical surface, but a sphere surrounding the black hole that marks where the escape velocity is equal to the speed of light.

..."The point of all this is that it is basically what happens with a black hole. We've established that in the rest frame of an accelerating observer a horizon exists, and if you are hovering a fixed distance from a black hole then you are an accelerating observer so as a result a horizon exists. It might seem a bit odd to say you are accelerating when your distance from the black hole remains constant, but the key point is that general relativity does not distinguish between inertial and gravitational acceleration. Both are treated in the same way. I go into this in more detail in How can you accelerate without moving?"....

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/555212/why-is-there-a-definite-boundary-of-a-black-hole-that-marks-point-of-no-return

So basically as long as your engines are holding position and have enough reserve energy to escape the gravitational pull of the black hole you're good, once you get past that, you won't be home for dinner....So if you had an energy source that could accelerate past the speed of light, there would be no point of no return....so the point of no return is based on your spaceship design....

..."The fastest a man made rocket can go today is very roughly some 60,000 km/h*. At that speed you could orbit a black hole (B.H.) with a mass of 4,000,000 Solar masses (e.g. Sagittarius A at the center of our galaxy**) at a distance of 1.9 * 10^15 km. In more manageable figures you would have to orbit that B.H. at a distance of ~ 203 light years** at a velocity of 60,000 km/h, in order not to get “sucked in”."...

https://www.quora.com/How-close-can-you-be-from-a-black-hole-without-getting-sucked-in

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, OH
Posts: 1928
Good Answers: 36
#3
In reply to #1

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/01/2023 12:33 PM

sphere surrounding the black hole that marks where the escape velocity is equal to the speed of light.

Since we have recently observed some matter apparently escaping a black hole, does this imply that "stuff" inside the black hole can exceed the speed of light that we know about? Maybe it means that the speed of light, c, is actually a variable in a huge gravitational field?

__________________
Lehman57
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#4
In reply to #3

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/01/2023 12:57 PM

Yes interesting, I look at it like when too much matter is captured by the black hole, the forces become so extreme that a huge vortex is formed at the poles, like a tornado in the event horizon, and the tip of the vortex then reaches the portion of the interior of the BH, where the matter is in a gamma state, and it releases the overburden in radiation bursts....interesting that a black hole has limits as well, it would seem an explosion is close at hand in these circumstances, and the interior of the BH is rapidly rotating, like water going down a drain...I believe magnetars, neutron stars and quasars all rotate very rapidly....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#5
In reply to #4

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/01/2023 1:59 PM

I believe in at least three impossible things every day.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#13
In reply to #5

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/05/2023 3:36 PM
__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#16
In reply to #4

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/18/2023 5:26 PM

..."The fastest-spinning neutron star known is PSR J1748-2446ad, rotating at a rate of 716 times a second or 43,000 revolutions per minute, giving a linear speed at the surface on the order of 0.24 c (i.e., nearly a quarter the speed of light)."...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star#:~:text=The%20fastest%2Dspinning%20neutron%20star,quarter%20the%20speed%20of%20light).

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15605
Good Answers: 983
#2

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

04/30/2023 3:35 PM

How small is the point where negative numbers become positive?

The event horizon is a three-dimensional transitional boundary. The simplest form of this equation assumes no rotation and is known as the Schwarzschild radius. This boundary layer is so thin that when a quantum vacuum fluctuation pair is formed adjacent to this boundary layer, the thinness of this boundary makes Hawking radiation.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#6
In reply to #2

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/02/2023 8:11 AM

So what is the diameter of one quantum particle,(just one of the pair)?

To my understanding,the pairs do not have to be adjacent to each other.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#7
In reply to #6

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/02/2023 12:37 PM

..."about a tenth of a billionth of a meter wide "...

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15605
Good Answers: 983
#9
In reply to #6

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/02/2023 1:49 PM

The diameter of all of the Standard Model particles is much smaller than one RCH in diameter. I hope this is what you mean by a quantum particle.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 485
Good Answers: 7
#8

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/02/2023 1:44 PM

The diameter of the quantum particle depends on the state. The state depends on the energy level. When the state changes....the energy, the density, the RPM, the angular momentum and moment of inertia(mass), and the diameter changes. But the amount of e(charge), remains constant.

It's a geometric shape with structure, angular accelerated(rotated) by a scissor acceleration of expanding and contracting forces. The scissor dynamic is a perpendicular force. The perpendicular scissor balance along with the rotational balance......results in the quantum energy scale.....that can balance and rotate at a stable size.

It's the strongest and most pure(highest Q) mechanical dynamic there is. It is the ONLY physical dynamic there is. The only physicality. All other structures and dynamics are combos of these. The building blocks are all the same stuff. Just one stuff. The stuff comes in handed pairs. Mass is not stuff......only the property of the stuff. A property of charge.

Charge can not pop in and out of existence. But it can change physical size by 3 orders of magnitude very quickly.

We don't see that kind of dynamic in the macro world, except for an explosion.

How would you like to see an object expand from it's size to 700 times it's size very quickly? Or a shrinkage of such? It would be pretty wild.....and a dangerous place with that environment. Imagine eating the wrong object. Imagine boiling water. These dynamics cause lots of vibrations and jiggles. Heat. Now, instead of spherical or block objects, consider ring objects. Now....the different sizes allow particles to fly thru one another, without touching. If you think a light flux or an electric current(same size particles) flux is hard to study, wait till you try with raw plasma flux. An truly UN-uniform and UN-ordered flux.....for sure. Fusion anyone?

They have FINALLY verified these SIZE dynamics with fusion research.

And I have argued for years that a portion of the mass gain from acceleration.......is only apparent. BECAUSE of this size change. And that the actual mass gain can be nullified. I won't be around by the time they find this out.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#10

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/03/2023 8:22 AM

If rotational velocity increases as matter is added to a black hole,then maybe the hole is a torrid shape,with new material adding to it's girth in all directions,and with increased velocity,all mass will be flung to the outer edges.At some point,the rotational velocity will equal the speed of C.What happens then?

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#18
In reply to #10

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/19/2023 11:20 PM

That's just it, as it approaches C it regurgitates matter in the form of gamma ray burst from the poles....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Louisville, OH
Posts: 1928
Good Answers: 36
#19
In reply to #10

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/19/2023 11:38 PM

If rotational velocity increases as matter is added to a black hole

But does it? Is angular momentum conserved? If the added mass brings angular momentum with it, it might be either + or - to the momentum that exists. But black holes are beyond my understanding, so all I can do is wonder!!

__________________
Lehman57
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#20
In reply to #19

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/20/2023 12:38 AM

The speed of rotation of a black hole is determined by its mass...

...."One black hole, at the heart of galaxy NGC 1365 is turning at 84% the speed of light. It has reached the cosmic speed limit, and can't spin any faster without revealing its singularity."...

https://phys.org/news/2014-02-fast-black-holes.html#:~:text=When%20a%20star%20becomes%20a,rotation%20speeds%20up%E2%80%A6%20a%20lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_process

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 485
Good Answers: 7
#11

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/03/2023 9:43 AM

How does one adjust the time....and the space(length)....of a constant velocity? Put the velocity in a rotation and adjust the diameter. Natural calls this dynamic mass and matter. Charge fields scissor at c.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 485
Good Answers: 7
#12

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

05/03/2023 10:18 AM

How does one mark the rotation so as to SET one rotation? Put a small loop in the arc of the rotation. NOW 1/2 the rotation leans to the right and 1/2 the rotation leans to the left. One rotation. A wobble marks RPM. That is a wobble, sets the rotational rate. Or frequency. The right EM field thru the center of the charge...can contract and induce another loop in arc of that rotation. NOW the charge has two wobbles per rotation. And the charge is smaller and rotates faster.......more energy. ONLY at least one full turn can be added or subtracted.......This is part of the digital quantum effect. One integer turns.

An electron has a small number of turns or wobbles. A proton has hundreds of turns and is small, hard and spins much faster than the electron.

__________________
Light is only half of what you think it is.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Metro.Manila, Philippines.
Posts: 1273
Good Answers: 27
#14

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/18/2023 11:17 AM

The question that comes to mind is what is the point of knowing the boundaries if nothing can ever come back from the black hole?

__________________
vsar
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2018
Location: Under the spreading Bunya Trees, South Burnett, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 809
Good Answers: 65
#15

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/18/2023 4:39 PM

The real point of no return is when you say "I do!"

__________________
Hare today, goon tomorrow!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#17

Re: How fine is the black hole "point of no return"?

08/19/2023 5:09 PM

Theoretical physicist, Richard Feynman is often attributed with the quote Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Register to Reply 20 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Haymaker (3); HiTekRedNek (3); Lehman57 (2); redfred (2); SolarEagle (7); Stef (1); vsar (1)

Previous in Forum: Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars   Next in Forum: Hydrogen Production From Seawater and Wind

Advertisement