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Anonymous Poster

Understanding Job Titles

12/11/2007 7:38 AM

HI DEAR ALL

My question is very simple but I wants to your opinion.....

Diffrence between QC,QA/QC,QC INSPECTOR,PIPING INSPECTOR,WELDING INSPECTOR & their Responsbilities ?

Thanks

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/11/2007 8:49 AM

In many companies QC and QA are essentially the same, although, in some places QA (Quality Assurance) is more of an administrative position. In this, the person would develop the guidelines and documents to track inspections and keep the records of these inspections and records of quality deficiencies detected. The QC (Quality Control) person would be the enforcer, or the one who physically does the inspections on equipment, processes, etc. and reports them to the Quality Assurance person.

JB

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/11/2007 7:34 PM

It looks like the same person talking to themselves.

If either of you should venture back and read the thread, when you register, you will be email notification when someone responds to your posts.

I'm QC Supervisor, I only answer to the Production manager. When I give direction that something is out of tolerance it gets fixed.

To add to your statement. Quality Control is more of a hands on position in a more mechanical environment of manufacturing. Quality Control is also looking for ways to cut down on wasteful costs and to establish improvement in processes and conduct training.

Quality Assurance is more involved in statistical quality control, they are more involved in doing product sampling on a more scientific level. Everyone from the person on the line to the QA manager are all quality assurance.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 10:30 AM

I'm QC Supervisor, I only answer to the Production manager.

I'm curious as to how that works out for you Janissaries, answering to Production.

In our place Quality is a totally seperate entity all the way to the top with the VP-Director of Manufacturing and VP-Director of Corporate Quality sitting side by side.

In this manner Production can't influence in any manner decisions to run, release, or ship anything.

I know others will argue the specific differences but I remember when the heads started the Quality Assurance name thing...seems that was about the same time a "used car" became a "pre-owned automobile"...if you know what I mean.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 11:05 AM

We're a small company that produce large machines. Some of us wear many hats. We aren't large enough to support VP's and the like.

We have a General Manager, Technical Director, Production Manager, Electrical Manager, Electronic Manager, Installation Manger and Purchasing Manager. That's it for managers.

I'm the Quality Control Supervisor/Safety Coordinator/Engineering Support, we have a Fabrication Supervisor, Assembly Supervisor, Shipping and Receiving Supervisor, Engineering Supervisor.

Then we have some leadsmen or team leaders.

It works for me answering to Production because we manufacture machinery parts. They want parts to be produced correctly the first time or we fall behind schedule and the Production Manager is left having to call customers to arrange pushing back installation dates.

Our quality control here is pretty much limited to inspection. My part is to work with fabrication supervisor to make changes in their processes to help ensure the error doesn't happen again. I'm given a lot of latitude in making decisions and can make them on the spot without having to go to the Production Manager for approval.

Another function that I perform is the elimination of wasteful processes, things like having material changed on drawings that we no longer use, or eliminating detailing instructions that no longer apply. I am also responsible for outsourcing work, it is my responsibility to explain to suppliers what my expectations are and give them advance notice as to what the actual tolerances are. I am the one that also inspects and approves the parts when they arrive. All of our drawings have standard generic tolerances printed on them and sometimes they aren't good enough.

I'm the second person to hold the title of Quality Control in the company. The first person was only an inspector and quit it because he didn't like having to find things to do to fill his time when work was slow, so he went back to fabrication. I took the job and researched what quality control was all about and started recommending changes. My first hurdle was convincing a French Production manager to facilitate a change. The French are extremely reluctant in allowing subordinates tell them things. I handled it like a Frenchman, I stood my ground by arguing with him. He figured if I had the balls to argue with him then I'm worth listening too. I won and answered only to him after that.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 11:55 AM

The way you explain your position it I can see how that would work fine, especially in a smaller company. We can't do it that way, simply because we're putting out over 2million lbs of food product a week and must have the accountability and traceability thing.

Although a bit off topic, I gotta say I always liked Tulare. It's a little hot for my taste down by Visalia and Tulare in the summer but I like the town. I used to do quite a bit of work down there at the hospital and at Dairyman's co-op, as well as others.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 12:14 PM

I knew a guy that worked maintenance for Dairyman's by the name of David Warford.

I work at a company in Traver. You pass by it going southbound on HWY 99 called MAF Industries, we manufacture all the machinery used in produce packinghouses.

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#3

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 2:26 AM

I will answer your simple question with simply understand:

From lowest to highest level: inspector, QC (Quanlity Control), QA( Quanlity Assurrance).

Inspection: to judge whether individual arcitcle is non-defective or defective.

QC: a system of means whereby the qualities of products or service are produced economically to meet the requirements of the purchaser.

QA: The systematic ativities carried out by a producer to guaranty that the quality required by the consumer is fully satisfied.

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#12
In reply to #3

There really is a difference....

12/12/2007 3:20 PM

Inspection: to judge whether individual arcitcle is non-defective or defective.

This is not an absolute. An inspector may simply inspect (record data, assess conformance) it may or may not be his/her determination of defective non-defective.

But as you put it it brings another matter to point which Milo, myself and others have spoke to before: Language; as language is endlessly defined, specified and clarified through industry specs, codes and regulations.

When we look at all the written material directed to the concepts of defective, conformance, acceptable, discrepant, non-defective, etc. in manufacturing as a whole the shear amount of material is staggering.

So in that line of thought I offer this:

An inspector inspects. He may or may not make any determinations based on that inspection and will usually only indicate through his findings that further analyses need to occur. If a sample from a lot fails inspection criteria more of lot is reviewed. If feature or element of control (control point) is discrepant others will choose to accept, reject, rework etc.

Quality control is the act of performing the the operations required or necessary to meet the needs of a particular quality plan and give the inspector direction on how to perform inspection through code and method as applicable to industry. The inspector may or may not be the whole of the QC practice, depending on the QA program.

Quality Assurance is the methods and procedures that are place to assure that a sufficient level of control is utilized and that the methods of control thmeselves are sufficient. i.e., codes, calibrations, frequency, equipment, standards, inspector/qc certifications etc,.

Juran (although a very un-entertaining author) is truly an authority on the matter of quality as a whole.

cr3

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#20
In reply to #12

Re: There really is a difference....

12/12/2007 9:20 PM

Dear Mr.(Ms)CRummel3,

"This is not an absolute" .You are allright, because of "Nothing is an absolute(exact, right, ......) and you are not an exception . "Whether individual article is non-defective or defective" is just definition of inspection(I).

There are many kinds of vocabulary were related inspections: sampling inspection, 100% inspection, acceptance inspection, receiving (or purchase) inspection, inspection between processes, final inspection, delivery inspection, sampling I by attributes, sampling I by variables, sampling I based on operating characteristics, sampling I with screening rectifying I, sampling I with adjustment, sampling I for continuous production, single sampling I, double sampling I,.....more further are: sampling I plan(or sampling plan), sampling scheme, producer's risk, consumer's risk, OC (Operating Charcteristic) curve,.........

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#4

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 7:55 AM

The more complicated the title the bigger the ego.

In large companies large titles are also used to try to make the redundant look useful.

The title VP means that this person has risen to their highest level of incompetence but is too socially inept to become a President.

The moniker "Senior" is a justification to pay somebody more. Or it means they are as old as I am.

Seriously, the titles are not standardized unless there is a state certification process. Of course then the titles will vary from state to state.

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#6

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 10:41 AM

In my experience, Quality Assurance is more recent development, and the focus is on PREVENTION by understanding, documenting and creating robust production systems; Quality Control has historically been focused on Detection; Typically QC inspectors are operating positions. QC usually is part of operations;QA is usually independent staff dept to assure independence from the authoritarian operating managers. Independent feedback channel.

Quality Assurance personnel in my staff work on process capability and mistakeproofing, supplier development and methods improvement; Inspectors are under the production department and they find and fix Mistakes in product.

Those mistakes can happen because of one of three possibilities: 1) there wasn't a defined capable process; 2) it wasn't followed; 3) it wasn't effective.QA deals with 1 and fixing 3; QC lives in 2.

Inspector position has no job security as no inspector is 100% effective; so it is a fools errand; Creating processes that validate conformance are what allows us to get to Parts per million or less performance- thats QA.

milo

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 11:17 AM

Thank you.

Monitoring production by using sampling method works good for production when it involves producing the same thing in large quantities or when the manufacturing is producing only a specific product.

Quality Assurance works there.

In a business like my own were we use Fred and Barney (what I mean is machinery built before CNC came out) technology to build and every part is handled individually you have to resort to inspecting every part. In cases where a large number is made and we can use a jig, we can sometimes get away with just inspecting a few parts to check for consistency.

When we get large number of parts from suppliers, like say a few boxes with a 1000 pieces in each box, I will sample them and if I get several within every 100 pieces I will reject the order and have the supplier remake them. They would never pass the Japanese criteria at that level for quality.

If you get into the habit of just accepting the order and not give feedback to the suppliers they will continue to slack in doing their part in maintaining quality. When you establish that you're not tolerant of their errors they pay closer attention.

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#9
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Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 11:31 AM

Agreed we're on the same page.

One thing that I found when doing acceptance sampling was that there is a presumption of normal distribution- a presumption that goes out the window when new overseas suppliers are using radically different production methods than we have encountered in the past.

milo

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 5:08 PM

I maight add for all, Quality Control and Quality Assurance both begin with Engineering. If Engineering is insistent on reliable materials and proper fabrication, then quality control is easy. Also, quality control is the responsibility of the craftsman as well. When material or equipment is received, it needs to be visually check by the dock hands receiving the material or equipment, the the craftsman, be he a welder, or a carpenter, or machinist, or assembler should be at least visually checking the material or equipment to assure that it meets the job/project requirements. At any point along the production stream, if any material or equipment fails these inspections for any reason, then production must stop and the discrepancies corrected. Check your OSHA requirements fo this and you will see that reporting of problems must be addressed. Faulty material and equipment is a safety issue. hehehe, now you have had a "tailgate meeting".

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#14
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Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 5:15 PM

Well said!

milo

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 5:34 PM

Your statement, to some point, goes to illustrate my point and ultimately answer the question of the OP.

In your example you have shown that anyone can be an inspector. That inspectors perform quality control and report findings, but dock hands do not typically decide anything. They notify others of a discrepency to some pre-established criteria. A quality assurance program will determine degree of further action.

However. It is not practical, in say a machining environment, for a machinist to check a positional tolerance across two planes on a more controlled feature. So yes and no to the craftsman part. A determination shall be included to the degree of inspection on parts received/mfg'd through a QA plan and as implemented by QC procedures and performed by some type of inspector.

Check your OSHA requirements for this and you will see that reporting of problems must be addressed. Faulty material and equipment is a safety issue.

This statement bears little fruit in a real mfg environment. OSHA doesn't have squat to say about the Fe content of my material. That info is monitored through a QA program. Not to be argumentative but the OP is not well served by suggesting an undo correlation between safety and quality in the context of the origianl question or the example cited.

Faulty equipment is a safety issue. And in some scenarios only certain equip is approved for certain processes which is a quality issue, but they are 2 separate beasts slightly entwined.

cr3

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 5:52 PM

Actually it begins with management.

If management isn't completely on board for the quality control program then the program fails because no one else will get on board either. You will end up having a couple people spinning their wheels and getting nowhere because no body else is cooperating.

Safety Programs and Quality Control programs are everybody's responsibility.

The biggest problem is a lot of people are too lazy to check and no one is being held accountable.

Then you have the inspector with his one pair of eyes called in and being asked "Why didn't you catch this?"

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#17
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Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 5:59 PM

Since I cannot vote for myself for "good answer" I will gladly offer it up to you for that piece of first hand experience.

cr3

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#18
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Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 6:15 PM

Thank you.

Since I've started visiting these forums I've regarded your information with a great deal of respect.

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#19

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/12/2007 6:59 PM

Seems like there would be a simple answer, but, like many simple questions, the answer is far from simple.

QA - sets the criteria for the process, the correct code, writes the procedures or approves the procedures, and assures the correct end results. This maybe an engineer or other qualified person.

QC - is the hands on fellow that assures that procedures are followed and feeds the information back to QA. QA and QC maybe one and the same,

Piping Inspector: Maybe the QA/QC, or most likely, a third party inspector or other qualified person that inspects the pipe for, wall thickness (usually min wall), heat treatment (normalized, PWHTed, tempered, etc), diameter, and positive material identification).

Welding inspector - may be the dedicated QA, QA/QC, or other qualified person.

Then after all other criteria are met, Third Party or In House NDE personnel maybe called in to UT, RT, PT, MP to check the pipe welds or other process's for any rejectable flaws.

Intermediate welding inspectors maybe the welding supervisor or other qualified person. This person maybe in the QA/QC department or not.

Final inspection is performed by in house or contract personnel that are completely not responsible for completion off the job or time schedule.

QA, QC, and final inspectors are not and must not be responsible for production time, schedule, or other restrains!

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/14/2007 9:25 AM

I M thank full to Mr Jmart23 to given detail answer my question & all participent which have given there comment.But I m waiting Mr GALALA comments in this regards.

S.A. KHAN

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#22

Re: Understanding Job Titles

12/14/2007 9:32 AM

Thanks to all for given there comment & I ill try to find out my answer in view of your comment but I am waiting Mr ABDUL HALIM GALALA Comments.

Take care.

S.A khan

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