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Anonymous Poster

wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 12:29 PM

To drive a device( like a drill or a grinder) which is not co-axial with the driving device like motor or engine, flexible shafts are used, though these are of limited lengths. can just a wire rope be used as a shaft for power transmission between the driver and the driven over long distances, if the axial shift is not much?

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#1

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 12:33 PM

Yes.. but it depends on power and alignment, if the rope is in a sleeve it will work fine, see Here..

Del

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 1:18 PM

They are absolute life savers for those jobs you cannot get to any other way.

Make no mistake though about their nature, if given half the chance they will have your eye out, or worse. You need to have your wits about you with these at all times (speaks with hard earned experience).


Now I am clever I am qualified to use them

p.s. don't let go of the drill even if you feel safer holding the "busy" end with both hands.

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#3

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 2:35 PM

One caveat: The flexible shafts can be driven BOTH directions. Not so with wire rope.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 5:36 PM

A shaft can be turned in 2 directions with a cable (wire rope).

Ooops flexible shaft...my mistake.

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#4

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 5:28 PM

I would question the length as to the load. The turning of the wire rope with the spiral will cause the wire to shorten as the load increases. The longer the wire rope the greater the amount it will shorten.

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#6

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/03/2008 6:47 PM

The other suggestions of a sleeved wire rope will work, depending upon the severity of the service. If it is occasional at a low speed then no problem, but if it is in high speed or extended service you will have to ensure the lubrication is adequate or the rope will get torn up by the sleeve.

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#7

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 12:38 AM

Speedometer cables are a very common example of the use of flexible cable drive (low power of course), but I think they are wound in a special way in order to give them uniform flexibility throughout a 360 degree rotation.

Wire rope might not have uniform flexibility and may therefore not transmit power at constant angular velocity throughout 360 degrees of rotation.

We had a speedo like cable between an electric motor and the tuning plug of magnetron in a Linear Accelerator for Automatic Frequency Control, which worked reasonably well until with age the cable showed quite a bit of mechanical hysteresis when the direction reversed.

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#8

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 12:47 AM

The wire rope is designed for static loads, and I think we can't use it for power transmission as a shaft. In addition to that, the turning of the wire rope with the spiral will cause the wire to shorten. Also, the wire rope can resist twisting in one direction only, and if twisted to opposite direction it will decrease tighten between wires and rope will dismantled and damage. Finally, rapid and cyclic loadings to wire rope will terminate its life rapidly.

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#9

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 1:08 AM

Common wire rope will not be a good transmission of power. It will become very unstable under loading. You can buy a cable that is wound bidirectionally that will transmit power. This is similar to the layup of the cable used in the many power tool extension shafts on the market today. The longer the shaft the greater the potential for a terrible failure resulting in great bodly harm. Use ridgid shafting, pillow blocks and U-joints to make a long run and use a flex shaft designed for the horsepower to make the final connection. Wire rope is, again, not a good choice for power transmission.

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#10

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 3:52 AM

As usual ..it's down to definitions and semantics.....

Some of us consider 5 W to be 'Power' some of us think in terms of MW...

Of course it can transmit power... it's just a matter of detail!

If Guest wants a specific answer we need much more detail.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 3:55 AM

Nit pickers I'd say, the lot of them

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#12

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 10:12 AM

Probably the safer way to use wire rope for power transmission is as an endless band running in sheaves. This was done with ordinary rope (sisal, hemp, etc.), before V-belts came along, and later with wire rope. This is obsolete technology in any case.

Flexible shafts, by the way, come in two distinct types. One is made for power transmission, and usually has a distinct preference for rotation direction such that the outer layer is tightening onto the inner ones in use. Speedometer cable is of this type. The other is called control shafting, and is made with closely balanced alternating layers of wire to give essentially equal torque capability in both directions; often, this has only very low speed ratings. There are a number of types of wire rope, but none are really intended or fabricated to work as flex shafts. They'd do better in the power mode than the control mode, but that's not saying much. Try contacting companies like S. S. White Technologies (http://www.sswhite.net/index.htm) for "real" flex shaft.

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#13

Re: wire rope as power transmission shaft

01/04/2008 1:58 PM

The larger the aspect ratio (length:diameter) the less useful this arrangement becomes for transmitting useful torque. You can experiment with a flexible extension for a 3/8 in socket wrench set and get a feel for the problems. These are generally useless for transmitting more than about 10 lb ft torque over more than 9" or so. If you stick a couple of these together end to end, making a flex shaft about 18 - 24" long, the result is useless for just about everything: even a small amount of torque will twist the shaft into a helix.

The 1963 Pontiac Tempest (which had a rear mounted transaxle and front mounted engine) had a flex shaft as a drive shaft between the two. The model (in that configuration) did not last long (only 1 or 2 years, if I recall) and the drive shaft was not a well-liked feature. In the Tempest, the flex shaft was housed and lube filled, and more expensive than a traditional shaft. It was possible because it saw only engine torque, not the multiplied torque seen (after the transmission) in a traditional arrangement.

To visual the forces on a flex shaft, you can take a piece of ordinary wire, put a 90 degree bend in it and then twist one end. One leg has a tendency to wrap around the other. Flex shafts designed for transmitting torque have features to reduce this effect, (and of course a less severe bend reduces it) but the effect itself is the "problem" with flex shafts. Even long "rigid" drive shafts suffer from whipping -- one reason typical rear wheel car driveshafts are so large in diameter.

Even when tensioned, and hanging straight down, a piece of wire rope is not a "good" torque transmitter: it tends to be very springy in torsion, tends to shorten under load, etc. On a horizontal run, catenary forces will pull a wire rope out of line, promoting whipping forces, putting high axial forces on bearings, etc.

So... yes, torque can be transmitted by wire rope (and specialized versions) but there are many caveats -- thus the very limited use of the arrangement. But again, just put two flex extensions together, and experiment with torquing a few bolts to 25 lb ft or so -- you'll soon see the limitations.

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