Previous in Forum: millwright exam   Next in Forum: Scrap steel--does higher quality = higher scrap price?
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

What is the science behind a Nail

03/14/2008 12:34 PM

Putting a nail on the wall is simple. but by what scientific theory it observes.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#1

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/14/2008 12:42 PM

Anthropomorphically speaking, the Nail observes a Wall in front of it, and a Hammer up its A**e.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#2

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/14/2008 1:47 PM

Well, if you truly mean "on" the wall rather than "in" it, I assume you're dealing with magnatism or a pretty darned exoctic type of sticky nail and/or wall.

If you mean "in" the wall, then you're dealing with friction, conservation of momentum, etc.

But more importantly if you're male and driving those nails into a wall without the permission of the woman of the house, then odds are you're about to learn an entirely different and painful lesson in physics.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#3

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/14/2008 2:05 PM

The force on the big head of the nail is transmitted to the small point. The same force over a smaller area gives a greater pressure pushing the nail into the wall.

Say the nail head is 10 mm square and the point is 1mm square. Then the pressure at the ponit is 10 times that at the head.

Apply the same reasoning to a drawing pin (thumb tack) and you will se how it works.

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#6
In reply to #3

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 4:42 AM

'mm square' or 'square mm', mmmm ? "....when I nod my head, you hit it"

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 357
Good Answers: 6
#8
In reply to #3

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 4:05 PM

No offense, Del, but I think you are erroneously trying to apply hydraulic theory to a simple transfer of energy, via an object in motion. The size of the nail head really has nothing to do with driving the nail, per se, but functions merely to help keep the nail penetrating in a straight line while being hit with the hammer, and the head helps to retain the material being fastened.

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#9
In reply to #8

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 4:16 PM

Ok.... I suggest you try reversing the nail and try driving it home

But seriously I do take your point (ooh stop with the puns already)...but there is some truth in what I say, take the thumb tack analogy...you certaily couldn't press it home if it didn't have the big flat head.
Nails are pointed so as to concentrate the enegy over a small area... ok you are right that with a hammer rather than a thumb the head area is only there to protect the hammer face... I'll except I'm wrong at one end, but right at the other.
Probably my head end is right...I blame my arse for any errors

but functions merely to help keep the nail penetrating in a straight line ?????

How come a point helps it go in a straight line?

Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 357
Good Answers: 6
#10
In reply to #9

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 4:47 PM

Yup, the large head on a thumb tack is there only to protect your thumb from impaling itself on the tack, if it didn't have the large head. It takes the same force to drive a given tack (or nail), whether it has a head or not. The point just advances a nail in the direction it is pushed. Have you ever tried to drive a bent nail... the point doesn't go straight into the wood.

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#11
In reply to #10

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 4:58 PM

Yeh, ok I surrender.

The nail merely transfers the force unchanged from hammer to nail.

The nail is a relatively small diameter purely to save material commensurate with the required strength.
A half inch diameter nail is just as easy to drive a an 1/8" nail...
Oh hang on ...no it isn't.

The smaller the diameter the easier it is to drive because the force is concentrated over a smaller area. (both in terms of cross sectional area and surface area once it's in the wood.

Ever seen 'snow shoes' or 'duck boards' for walking over snow and mud respectively?... they work in the opposite way, e.g they spread the load over a large area, thus reducing the pressure and allowing you to traverse the otherwise hostile surface.

Maybe we should settle for an honourable draw? (or wait for Fyzz?)

Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 357
Good Answers: 6
#12
In reply to #11

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 6:15 PM

Okay... now, I think you've got it. Who woulda thought we'd get this much mileage out of a nail? It's been fun. :-)

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#13
In reply to #12

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 7:01 PM

"... this much mileage out of a nail ..."

How much mileage could you get out of a nail?

Maybe the topic for a new thread, but ...

Assuming you could get all the energy out of a nail (by finely dividing it & burning it in oxygen, say) - and by comparison with the energy available when petrol (gasoline) is burnt in an engine, how far would that take a Honda 50 with an average (median) weight adult (20 - 40 year old) man?

There's some food for thought! I'm off to find a nice quiet bunker.

BTW - this reminds me of the kind of question my tutor used to chuck at us, about 35 years ago, just to keep us on our toes.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 357
Good Answers: 6
#14
In reply to #13

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 8:23 PM

Yuk, yuk, yuk. I suspected when I mentioned mileage someone would jump on it. I'll just bet you often run for the bunker. Cheerio! :-)

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#15
In reply to #13

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 9:31 PM

Caveat - nuclear reactions not allowed!

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 357
Good Answers: 6
#4

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 3:04 AM

Basically, it is friction that must be overcome to drive a nail into a material, and it is friction, once again, that works to hold the nail in the material. A dissertation on nails can be found here...http://books.google.com/books?id=fMZwUGf6wJoC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=what+holds+a+nail+in+wood&source=web&ots=xMkLGb-f-i&sig=7U3Suz2H95yUpt-X2WUVONdqpkM&hl=en#PPA129,M1

__________________
This is it... so live it up!
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#5

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 3:59 AM

Driving a nail into wood, there are also wedge effect due to the tip of the nail spreading the wood fibres.

It's easy to split timber with wooden wedged once you have got a split started.

If you start to analyse it you will probably find the maths and science will prove nails don't work .

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#7

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/15/2008 12:46 PM

Failed attempt to defeat Newtons law of Gravity. Sooner or late the building fell down and the nail with it.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7498
Good Answers: 97
#16

Re: What is the science behind a Nail

03/23/2008 9:28 PM

Stress or shear, or both.

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 16 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (2); bwire (1); JohnDG (3); ozzb (1); Skeeter (5); user-deleted-1105 (4)

Previous in Forum: millwright exam   Next in Forum: Scrap steel--does higher quality = higher scrap price?
You might be interested in: Scientific Imagers, Nails, Colleges and Universities

Advertisement