Fusion Fission Confusion

The federal government needs to lead, follow, or get out of the way. My gut feeling is that our best hope lies with the states and private industry. The "million solar roofs" initiative in California is just one example of how smart states won't wait for Washington, D.C. to address the problem. At the same time, corporate greed is a double-edged sword. Left unchecked, monopolies and oligopolies can crush new technologies (e.g., the elecric car) that threaten existing business models. At the same time, when you see Al Gore's face on the cover of a business magazine, you have to wonder if some smart CEO is about to realize that there's big money in alternative energy.

I have to take issue with the fact that you consider California a smart state pertaining to the energy issue. As a resident of California, I would have to inform you that it is nothing of the sort. While the debate over eliminating wind power is raging in our capital because it kills a few ducks, we are still buying most of our energy from out of state (at an extremely high price), rather than find some way to create it ourselves. The Green peace hippies wont allow us to use any form of nuclear energy, we cant drill for oil (or refine it) and we cant mine for(or burn) coal. Yet we still have power outages every summer because the energy grid is so overloaded. So what is the "SMART" states answer to the eventual energy crisis? Elecrtic cars? Where do we plug it into? All the power comes from oil and coal burning plants in Nevada and Arizona! How does that equate to "smart"?

...how does that equate to "smart"?

Well, for one thing, the prevailing west wind will generally keep the pollution from the power plants heading east so California won't suffer.

Ok, so this makes me smart a little lower on my anatomy, but if we can't laugh at our own demise, what CAN we laugh at?

I would say the single most devastating blow to science and innovation in this country was the collapse of the soviet union. If the USSR was working of Fusion right now, you could bet we would be too. If the Chinese experiment is a success, I expect you'll see the US start to push forward on Fusion.

Too many people with no technical expertise question the benefits and validity of science. Think about it, we our debating evolution in this country. Are big alternative energy project is basically running our cars on moonshine. Rest assured however that technical innovation will continue, that's evident from history, it just may not be the US providing it.

I get the impression people shy away from alternative energy because they got burned before .As soon as things started moving forward ,fuel prices dramatically dropped , to a level that made it seem pointless , and people who continued were considered crackpots .This time I think high energy prices are here to stay .If nothing else demand and acceptance of alternatives may be a blessing for people to make a desent living from .Take firewood for instance in my area people will be able to sell it for $300 a cord and finally make enough to make it an econmically viable business .And if wood byproducts can be utilized at least it won't be filling up landfills .And on the technical side it's a little ridiculous to think that we couldn't find working solutions for fuel production ,or is it there is a great opposition to change .I'm wondering if americans have been brainwashed to the exstent we don't think the oil companies are doing anything wrong. And we are so reliant and complacient that people truely believe there is no other way .I guess not many people of the new generation ever had the experiance of a camp in New Hampshire with no heating system except a wood stove kerosene lanterns and a shovel for a bathroom .

Maybe this article will make you feel better: http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/20 06/physics-astron/hottest-z-output.html Me thinks the "Chinese experiment" you refer to is an attempt to reproduce discoveries made in the US. Just because you haven't heard about innovations in America doesn't necessarily mean they are not happening. Be careful not to get too down-hearted on the Yanks. I listened to a podcast of an interview with an Astrophysicist who was extremely excited about recent discoveries made at Sandia.--->Go to this site and listen to the two podcasts titled "Unlimited energy and doomsday scenarios" (Don't mind the DJs, they can take the most wonderful events and twist them into an example of the government oppressing the people): http://signs-of-the-times.org/podcast/index.php

The Chinese reactor is like nothing the United States has done or plans to do on its own soil. Ten years from now in France the US will be a 1/6th partner in something similair. In the US we're too busy coming up with 4000 useless uses for carbon nanotubes.

Roger I love your sarcasm because maybe it will finally shame the science community to action .People are so adept at being fat beurocrates they spend all there time justifying there existance and talking crap they have little time for common scence discovery.It took a couple of farmers to realise they could take some cow crap and turn it into electricity ,no PHD needed there .

I appreciate your positive input and I will check out those sites .I hope your right and I know of some exciting experiments taking place in the US that I have personally witnessed I am being told these experiments are investigating phenominons observed after Chernoble .Supposedly some wierd energy potential and I'm sure a lot we never even hear of .Where are all the foundations to give independent science a place to florish .When I have the resourches I'll start one .

Interesting that Traditional says "given the opportunity" he (she?) could be an Edison. Edison was Edison because he didn't wait for someone else to give him an opportunity. Ditto with the Wright brothers. Granted, the really big innovations are now beyond the means of individual experimenters, but most of the amazing stuff coming from China is small-scale, not terribly high tech stuff. The big problem is that, between legislators and lawyers, an environment exists in America where innovation is hardly worth the effort. I live five miles from Medtronic's headquarters. An average of ONCE A WEEK a doctor comes in with a great, tested idea and most of the time Medtronic turns it down because they can't justify the decade of investment necessary to get it past regulators. They make an implant device which is effective against one kind of morbid obesity, but you can't get it unless you live in Europe. Most of the doctors I know admit privately that the greatest threat to the health of the American people is the FDA. Meanwhile, China takes a "more power to you" attitude toward innovators. China is what the U.S. used to be.

Oh, one more thing. It is true that most people don't have a proper appreciation of science, but it goes much deeper than this. People are hostile to science. One of the reasons is that they take all the good science for granted, but on the few occasions when science does harm, the press rubs people's nose in it. I was amused, and irritated, to read a rant against science the other day - posted on the internet! But a larger reason for the problem is that science must contend with other ways of "knowing" truth - religion, tarot cards, gossip columnists, whatever. The problem with reality is that it's often inconvenient, cruel and tragic. I've worked with a lot of college-age people who have a clear-eyed view of reality at 20 and a voodo one at 30, after reality has shown them things they don't want to see. Our real task is to convince people that, just because you don't like some of the things science shows you, rejecting science won't make them go away.

Traditional is a he and Edison didn't have have those obsticals to overcome .It is our country and "they" work for us .The remarkable thing is we can take it back .I'm not sure you would want to live in China then you would really have to post your messages as Anonymous coward .I agree there are problems but there are solutions don't loose sight of that .I'm glad to see your pissed I challenge you to do something about it.

The unfortunate consequences of a 'fat and happy' society is that there is no real incentive to pay attention to anything other than one's own personal satisfaction and fulfillment. The popular "do your own thing" philosophy that became prevalent during the 60's has bred such a disdain for any hint of personal responsibility or civic concern that it has practically taken over the popular culture. The idea that individuals should be devoting themselves to the needs of their fellow citizens is a foriegn concept to the majority of baby boomers and their children. That generation has tried to put that responsibility on the Federal Government which has become such a bloated bureacracy as a result, that those who would take advantage of it for their own interests are almost impossible to bring to account. Not only that, but within such a system is the worst place to have any kind of true effectivness. If you want to provide social programs for the "underpriviledeged" do it at the local level without having a central governmental agency siphon off resources for their own ends and then send a trickle back and have the nerve to tell us what to do with it! This country grew to world prominence through innovation that was motivated by the prospect of individuals actually achieving personal prosperity from their efforts. Our current system that puts all the control of the direction of research and development into the hands of a relative few(namely our "elected" representatives and the special interests that own them)was pretty much inevitable after our Civil War changed the whole structure of our nation from a federation of sovereign states to one in which those states are now beholden to a central authority whose interests, more often than not, are not in line with the interests of those from whom the power actually flows. The principles of our founding fathers have been turned on their heads and our once great nation has become exactly what the original structure was designed to prevent. I'll climb down off my soap box now....please forgive me. As you can see I think our problems are quite fundamental and will require committed effort on all our parts to continue to educate those around us while dedicating ourselves to excellence in our daily pursuits.

Okay, I'll climb on the soapbox vacated by water buffalo. It is precisely the destruction of the American idea that a person has a right to act for his/her own ends, and its substitution with the idea of duty to everyone else, which has snuffed our once-matchless inventiveness. Once one has a duty, failure to execute it becomes a crime. If you CAN perform a service, then failure to perform it makes you the bad guy. Predictable result: people avoid acquiring the ability to perform a service. Many of my own innovations have suffered crib death because developing them would only put me in the role of public victim.

I think I get your point .As far as, I always hated going to the kids soccer games, because I couldn't relate to the yuppies and before you know it they had me signed up for some commitee.So I rarely went . That misses the point .On a larger scale I've allways felt a commitment in my heart to do some good .When I was 13 my mother brought me to war protests and I still feel I should raise my voice when I see a transgression . I think we are in the middle east primarily to protect fuel supplies and I can't see why we can't scientifically find a solution to that dependence . Nobody is making me a victim for saying so and I hope I'm furthering that agenda through this forum .The word is more powerful than the sword .I'm not suggesting joining the marines maybe help out an old lady in your own town .Once you feel it you can spread it that doesn't mean signing up for anything .

I'm not saying that one should not pursue personal gain. As you point out, that is one of our ideals as a society. What I am saying is that the environment within which we pursue our goals has been fundamentally altered since the founding of our nation from one in which the individual entreprenuer reaps the rewards of his efforts, to one in which the government actually gains the most. The lion's share of the wealth produced in this country has been slowly and systematically diverted into the control of the previously mentioned "few". This fact has provided a disincentive to those who would otherwise be more productive in terms of putting forth their creative efforts. I believe this was the point you were making, however the other aspect of my previous statement had more to do with the internal sense of personal responsibility to society as a quality of one's character as opposed to a standard imposed on the individual by the society.

well said , no apology needed .Remember the "we "society was replaced by the"me" society there needs to be a balance between the pursuit of money and being a contributing member of society .

Joe says There seem to be a lot of I could do's out there. If the US is holding you back take your great inventive genius to China and get the funding they so "freely" provide. Lets use electric automobiles for transportation. It really does not matter that the vehicles are extremely hard to dispose of, that high voltages from them can cause severe injury or death to rescue crews and firefighters, or the electricity needs to be produced and stored somewhere. "Useless research" like nanotubes seems to be similar to those who said experiments about flight, electricity's usefulness" (other than a novelty), medical research, etc were useless. Let time and history sort the usefull from the fancifull. The government controlls a lot because we each seem to want to protect our own interests. Non profits include, Churches, foundations, research centers, and many other institutions. If a business is owned by a non-profit there are many "tax" benefits (by which I mean they don't pay taxes). If the playing field was even and each entity including churches, foundations, etc. were equally taxed would you feel better? I do not think so. One can be negative or one can continue to produce even if little seems to be gained. Do we not have heat in the winter, cool areas in the summer, food to eat, beautiful public areas to share? I feel blessed to be able to partake of the greatness around me. We each must continue to offer our opinions, suggest alternatives, make inovations, and perservere to contribute. It sometimes is the knowledge that your ideas and inventions may contribute to the whole process that is more rewarding than the funds you recieved or the individual accolades presented. Unleash your mind, vent, invent, perservere, our life would be greatly diffent if "useless research" had not been persued.

Your comments are so on the mark it frightens me to think of the real answers. America got to be great by possessing an atmosphere and culture where everyone was expected to be somebody genuinely important or do something meaningful or needed. Government, corporations, and individuals all pitched in. Though the goals of each might have been different, our culture allowed for a great deal of the effort to be constructive and positive. Today, in contrast, we are consumed with thoughts of being a teen idol or some other nonsense. What are the goals today? Does today's activity produce anything that is even positive or desired by someone with an IQ over 80? We might all have to look to China for our next big techno thrills. They are driven in much the same way that we were in the 1950's.

This conversation is 3 days old a lifetime on the internet but it has been usefull .I forgot that helping people has in fact been turned in George Bushes time to a government hand out .And thoughts of working together for a common goal make people nervous .There is alot to overcome in todays pollitical climate for right or wrong to do the right thing things aren't so simple ,but discussion is a first step and I feel I've learned from this one from everyone involved .