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FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/03/2008 6:05 AM

Am wondering how individual elements of front-end-geometry relate to straightline stability. Caster would seem to be a + @ closed throttle, but a - @ higher power. What is good thru this transition?

Is there a good book on this?

Elements i'm thinking would be applicable: Caster, Camber, Toe, KPI, Scrub radius,

?other?.

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Posts: 5
#1

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/03/2008 7:29 PM

straight line stability is increased with castor if ya remember the bike, removing your hands the bike would still go straight. But like in a mercedes, the more castor you have the more camber change you will get in a turn reducing your contact patch. If you have ever seen one in a parking lot entering in a parking space it looks like the wheel is falling off the used to run about 10- 12 degrees. They have the most of any car I have ever worked on including race cars.

Normally we like to run aroung 2.5 - 4.5 to get the best of both worlds

I hope this helps

country

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Anonymous Poster
#2
In reply to #1

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 2:57 AM

Try Haynes publication "Competition Car Suspension" by (I can't remember sorry stan someone I think) This is a recent book with heaps of info on how everything fits together. It is very good thoguh I disagree with him on the De Dion rear end issue and he doesn't have anything on the unusual layouts like Rover's 90 degree, fireweall mounted top link. But the basics are all there in detail so you can go from there!

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 6:34 AM

Would that be Alan Staniforth?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 7:51 PM

Thats the guy!

there is a similar one from America of late 70s vintage which is also very good on the basics and aimed at sedans rather than open wheelers. It also has some good methods of improving compliance etc although it is pretty dated and doesn't have much on front Wheel drive.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 4:35 AM

I'm familiar with how caster works to stabilise a RWD vehicle; contact patch behind the steering axis creates a moment, forward travel drawing the tire along produces a force. Combined these are a torque that tends to realign the wheel + tire with the direction of travel.

Won't, then, adding power to this assembly reverse the sign of the force on said moment? Produce a negative stability condition?

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 5:54 AM

Don,

You're not working on that fancy newfangled front end for shopping trolleys again are you?

Powering the front wheels is a killer idea.

Successful development will get you millions. There are billions of the dammned things out there and none of them steer right.

I think you've got something there.

Cheers.

Stu.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 6:23 AM

Re: Trolleys (USA: cart) a tie rod to link front wheels would help. As would enough robustness that they wouldn't go 'off camber'

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 6:33 AM

No, more esoteric than that.

A twin-engined unit; standard RWD, plus 2nd engine (independant), free/direct drive.

Run up through the gears RWD, start & engage FWD to utilise as AWD.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: FWD: How Do the Classic Elements of Geometry Effect Self-Centering?

06/04/2008 8:58 AM

NOW you're cookin'

Stu.

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