Looking for H2 options

http://www.getenergysmart.org/Files/HydrogenEducation/6HydrogenProductionSteamMethaneReforming.pdf

http://www.energyindependencenow.org/pdf/fs/EIN-WhereDoesHydrogenFuelCo.pdf

Try a google search first. Seriously, now days you can find just about anything you need in a few minutes. Start of with a course (short number of key words) search and add more words if you get too many hits.

Also look at Wikipedia and other similar sites for more information and links.

H2 is not a fuel, it is produced in order to be bonded to other Hydrocarbons to make useful other HC's or to bond with Sulphur for it removal from complex HC's.

Oh, come on vicini!

What is your point? Better yet, what is your definition of a fuel? With all of the industrial uses of clean burning hydrogen (hydrogen furnaces, cutting torches, rocket propellent, etc.) how can you justify your insistance that hydrogen is not a fuel?

Is it the terminology or chemistry that gets to you? Are you an oil mogul? Do you drive a gas hog? Why do you resist?

Even the World Book Ecyclopedia says "fuel: Substance that is burned or otherwise modified to produce energy, usually in the form of heat. Apart from fossil hydrocarbons (coal, oil and gas) and firewood and charcoal, the term also applies to radioactive materials used in nuclear power stations.

Hydrogen is not a fossil fuel, it is a man made material as there is no free H2 on the earth. The sun has H2 and it is using the extended definition above to include nuclear reactions. Man won't see this type of energy for many decades. Instead, man creates H2 as a way to store energy in way it can be later, just like we store electricity in a battery.

The hype to make H2 an fuel is so inefficeint that it will never be anything other than a designer souce of storing energy. People love to touts its more than double the energy per pound, that they forget that trying to get 1 pound of in in a reasonable size becomes futile. They point to space shuttle using it as a fuel. The use of H2 as a source of stored energy was all poltical. Kerosene and O2 would be more cost effective. Look at the model of the shuttle sometime and pin point the oxidant for the huge H2 tank, you will get the big picture on that one.

As for H2 use in tools, like cutting extemely rare materials or heating to temperatures to melt tungstan, yep, a designer material.

Personally, I drive a 1.8 liter engine car, so I win that conspiacy theory. I design things like hydrogen plants that take methane and water to get H2. I've worked in electrochemical plants that run more kwatts per hour than a city of 100,000 people that produce as a coproduct H2. I understand the thermodynamics and economics of H2. My motive, to save YOUR pocket book from scammers and crooks.

Thank you for helping to protect us from scammers and crooks. I agree that there is a lot of nonsense out there regarding H2 and I hope most people realize that fossil fuels are unfortunately rich in carbon. Personally it rubs me the wrong way (but it exposes their ignorance) when people refer to water or its components as HHO or Browns gas. Natural selection will surely (eventually) remove them from the gene pool. Perhaps you would be so kind as to share your view on your preferred alternative to fossil fuels.

I am not against nuclear energy but it isn't very portable. With regard to stored energy, what would you recommend for a medium. I think batteries are good up to a point, but they are big and bulky and have a relatively short life rating. Perhaps the battery technology will improve some day.

And yes, there isn't a lot of H2 sitting around because it rises above the atmosphere and tends to escape into space. I like that idea better than what happens with most hydrocarbons which tend to hang around and help to form smog and cause respiratory problems.

So, if I want to collect and save unused solar energy or waisted heat energy from the fossil fuel burning water heater and furnace in my house, what should I use? And what device(s) should I have that will utilize all of this saved energy? We seem to be built on a premise that it is OK to waste unused energy because it has always been so cheap that it didn't matter. But because times are changing and energy is becoming so expensive, how are we to cope?

Lastly, the industrial use of hydrogen is a lot more common than you suggest. Hydrogen furnaces are fairly common because they are great at cleaning metal surfaces. Hydrogen burners are fairly common in cutting processes especially in glass factories even though other carbon laden fuels can be used. And unless I'm off by a percent or two, it seems that hydrogen composes nearly 98 percent of the universe. It just seems to have a habit of getting tied up or blowing off somewhere else. That doesn't make it unavailable, just as pulling oil or coal out from beneath thousands of feet of dirt and rock doesn't seem to make those compounds unavailable.

Yes, hydrogen is expensive to extract. But everything is expensive when it is just beginning to be utilized. New cars are (were) expensive....new computers are (were) expensive. The space program is expensive (kerosene or not). Oil needs a viable competitor to make it and keep it reasonable. In these times of reducing costs everywhere, what is oil doing to pull its weight? Its not about the consumers stripping the supply of oil (yet), its about the oil producers stripping the customers of everything they have (including the shirt on their back). Some of us think the oil producers are scammers too!

a tip of the ol hat to you sir.

As for saving energy you capture today in the house, it depends. The fad now is point of use water heaters, so you do not generate waste heat. I use a 98% efficient condensing water heater. The exhaust from the burning propane is anywhere from 40 F to 90F, no wasted heat there. If you have solar PV and/or wind, right now the best is net metering. Next would be batteries. Gel cells last long and are a bit safer.

Other than that, what ways do you have wasted energy? I mean, I'd love to use the energy that heats the house to 85 in the daytime instead of opening windows to cool it off because the outside is 75. 100 F air doesn't contain a lot of recoverable energy. Or if you are running an AC unit, heat water with the hot freon. You get free hot water and a slightly lower electrict bill because of the lower condensing pressure.