Previous in Forum: Cumulative Maximum Demand   Next in Forum: sys
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Power-User
Turkey - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 310

Controlling AC Motor Speeds

09/16/2008 7:47 AM

I read somewhere. İt says that one of the techniques to control the speed of an a.c motor is dynamic frequency converter and one of this techniques' subdivision is to use self-excitation freq. converter.İt is a slip-ring and commutator brush bla bla d.c armature it says it is an excitation winding on the stator.İ wonder how this can be.You have opinion?

__________________
jinxnao
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
2
Guru
Canada - Member - Our strength is our diversity

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1024
Good Answers: 40
#1

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

09/16/2008 10:14 AM

Blah blah blah

Basically, the rotation of an AC motor is directly related to the frequency of the input signal. As the phase rotates around 360 degrees, the magnetic field and armature follows.

Increase the frequency it goes faster, decrease it and it goes slower. There are, however, limits.

The lower limits of the speed is restricted by the amount of heat the motor is designed for.

The upper limit is restricted by the weight of the armature, bearing maximum speeds, and the current limit.

There are generally two ways to create a range of frequencies in a frequency generator;

1. Start with a crystal oscillator, to create the base frequency, Use counters or logic to modify (multiply or divide) the frequency, or

2. Use a noise generator and a tuned ring circuit which has a feedback circuit to amplify the desired frequency (self excitation). To get a different frequency, you simply tune the resonant circuit to a different frequency. The advantage of this is that you are not restricted to multiples or dividends of a base frequency, or limits of a digital counter. You are allowed much finer control such as fractions of a Hz frequency shift.

By the way, if it has brushes, try to avoid it. This is a recipe for lots of maintenance and repairs. Go for a brushless motor.

I would avoid any slip rings for the same reason unless it was a mercury slip ring.

__________________
Perfection is a subjective and abstract concept.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Silvis, IL (Quad Cities)
Posts: 141
Good Answers: 5
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

09/17/2008 5:37 AM

This is good up to a point. One thing I would mention is if you already have a wound rotor motor that you wish to attach an inverter to, you can do this in two ways. You can just short the brush inputs together outside the motor, in this case you still need to perform maintenance on the brushes. OR.... you can put shorting buss bars on the slip rings in order to get rid of the brushes entirely.. You will have to put at least three shorting bars on the motor in order that you don't unbalance the motor, but I have successfully done this with great results.

__________________
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing else to take away
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4666
Good Answers: 800
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/08/2009 5:37 AM

WARNING!

THIS IS INCORRECT!

TAKING THIS ADVICE WILL RUIN YOUR MOTOR!

Yours is NOT a Wound Rotor Induction Motor. You posted, as an apparent minor side note after your "blah blah blah", that it has DC excitation. That makes it a Synchronous motor, not a Wound Rotor Induction Motor (WRIM) as Shawn V assumed. Shorting the rotor windings will cause it to attempt starting without ever pulling in to synchronicity, and the subsequent rotor field voltage will get extremely high, which can start a fire.

Speed control of 3 phase AC asynchronous induction motors, which includes WRIMs and Squirrel Cage Induction Motors (SCIM) can be accomplished by using pre-made devices called Variable Frequency Drives, or VFDs for short. No need to go trying to make one from scratch with a crystal oscillator etc etc., that will likely cost you 10 times as much as it would to buy one off the shelf. They are very common and very inexpensive now.

However, speed control of a Synchronous motor is MUCH more tricky and requires very specialized knowledge of their application, use and protection. From the tone of your initial post, you do not possess these necessities. Better to hire a professional with experience in this specific field, it will cost less than replacing the motor and whatever else the fire may damage.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2547
Good Answers: 103
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/08/2009 5:57 AM

I wonder -

why stator is having exciter ? when rotor is having DC (excitation) ?

is it a DC motor ?

but the OP calls it AC motor.

Am I confused?

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4666
Good Answers: 800
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/08/2009 1:01 PM

I took the "stator" statement as further evidence that the OP was unfamiliar with motor terminologies at all, and he meant "rotor". A Stator is excited by simply applying power...

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 9
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/07/2009 11:04 PM

how did you gain so much experience in this subject?

__________________
live the experience...
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 727
Good Answers: 2
#6

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/08/2009 12:44 PM

You are not clear in stating the problem .You say DC armature then slip ring and then commutator.What kind of motor are u talking about?

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4666
Good Answers: 800
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/08/2009 1:16 PM

An older Synchronous AC motor fed by slip rings with a shaft connected DC exciter supply generator would have all of those elements. Here is a picture of an extreme version of that.

The device that looks like a small motor connected to the shaft of the larger one is actually a DC generator. As the motor turns, the DC generator supplies excitation power for the rotor of the synchronous motor. So the DC generator has a commutator and brushes, the synch. motor has slip rings for its rotor. In smaller versions these are more closely coupled to where someone may not be able to differentiate them as separate if they are unfamliar with the technology.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 727
Good Answers: 2
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Controlling AC Motor Speeds

08/09/2009 1:10 PM

If you closely read the problem stated there is no mention of excitor.Even to day on large turbo generators we have a dc generator coupled to the machine for excitation.He doe s not state it that way.All I am trying is to understand what is the question.Thanks for intrepreting the same.

__________________
To avoid crticism do nothing,say nothing,be nothing
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 9 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

jovan (1); JRaef (3); nesubra (2); sb (1); Shawn_V_Elect (1); techno (1)

Previous in Forum: Cumulative Maximum Demand   Next in Forum: sys

Advertisement