Previous in Forum: Dworshak Dam   Next in Forum: Quartz Infrared Heaters
Close
Close
Close
23 comments
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 832
Good Answers: 96

Mold and Mildew

10/05/2008 8:57 PM

Hi to all,

I have a real dilemma ...

We manufacture some products with wood (actually MDF and HDF) and textile components, and recently ONE of our clients has complained about mold and mildew appearing on products.

The problem only appears on some finished good received, and we learned the only source of these complaints was from their South-East Asia warehouse where temperatures and humidity are extreme.

Originally, we thought the problem was from one of our fabricators, but now it seems that it comes from several, but still, only occurs when the products are stored in our clients damp warehouse.

Now, this client is asking we to testing at +90% humidity, and indeed, after about 3 weeks, we can see evidence of mold and mildew on the textile / fabric areas.

I can (and will) argue that this condition and testing is extreme, however the dilemma exists that there will be come cases where products are stored in these extreme environments.

We use dessicant packs in all our products but, apparently, that is not enough.

What do do? How to evaluate? In 30+ years of manufacturing and shipping products all over the world, this is a first, at least a first report, and it has me baffled as to how to solve it. With all the products of various materials used world-wide, this can't be a unique problem.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards ...

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: damp fungus humidity mildew mold storage
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Environmental Engineering - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Anywhere Emperor Palpatine assigns me
Posts: 2776
Good Answers: 101
#1

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/05/2008 10:20 PM

Yes, temperatures and relative humidity levels are very high in the South-East Asia region. It's the nature of the region's climate, so there's no avoiding it. Maybe your company can store your products or supplies in a climate-controlled warehouse, where RH can be as low as 60%. It will cost quite a bit more though. Alternatively, you may consider packing dessicants and wrapping your products in airtight plastic wrap. Be careful though: unequal drying may cause the wood to warp.

__________________
If only you knew the power of the Dark Side of the Force
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 832
Good Answers: 96
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/05/2008 11:41 PM

Hi DV, and thanks. Unfortunately, the storage is by our client and I have no say in the matter.

Since we are not dealing with solid woods, there isn't much problem with warping, so that isn't a concern.

Currently I am doing more experiments with shrink-wrap with a dessicant pack inside to see the improvement.

The battle continues :-)

Thanks, and kind regards ...

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7503
Good Answers: 96
#6
In reply to #2

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 1:40 AM

Remove or seal the fuel and the mold does not grow...shrink wrap or sanding sealer etc..

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member United States - Member - New Member Hobbies - Hunting - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Posts: 782
Good Answers: 17
#3

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/06/2008 12:39 PM

Long ago I had a similar problem, the solution was so simple...

Shrink wrap and seal your product with desiccant inside. When you seal the container, you can then calculate the amount of desiccant needed. Without the container completely air tight, your fighting an uphill battle.

I had a supplier of heat seal material that I used, if you need him let me know and I'll look up his web address for you.

Laby

__________________
Be careful of what you wish for .....
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 832
Good Answers: 96
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/06/2008 9:04 PM

Thanks for the help.

Yesterday I started a controlled test with just this idea. I chose 10 new parts, put 5 in shrink wrap with a desiccant pack inside (not sure the correct amount, but similar to what we have used before), and left the others open as a control.

The 10 are now in testing, so in 3 weeks we should have some results.

Kind regards ...

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Malanda, Australia
Posts: 117
Good Answers: 1
#5

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 1:35 AM

Natural Borax, dissolved in water, then applied to your wood etc, will strongly inhibit mold, - if the product comes in touch with water, you will need to seal the Borax in, - Tung oil is a good one, it dries very hard (used to be used for dance floors) and offers no home to mold. Don't use Linseed oil, it can grow mold in the tropical high humidity situation you mention. Regards, Geoff Thomas. Kuranda, (The village in the Rainforest) Australia.

__________________
Let's try and think clearly when looking at information and only allow emotions when weighing up options.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 371
Good Answers: 7
#7

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 2:13 AM

Your problem lies with the user more than you. The moulds are ON the product but would be getting some nutrition from the wood surface so your finishing system could be supplying this. I have had this problem working both in Lima, Peru and here in Durban, South Africa both semi-tropical and with high humidity. If you are finishing with a laquer of some sort you should include a mould killer in your formulation - contact someone like Thor Chemicals www.thor.com/ for a suitable additive.

Wrapping them won't do much for the problem will occur when they are exposed.

I did have a sever problem once caused by airbourne effluent from a local factory - if this is the case both you and your client have had it!

What is the binder for the board - if it is a urea fromaldehyde then I would be surprised as the formaldehyde usually kills off moulds and the idea of it being in the final coating could be the answer.

__________________
You can always tell the pioneers - they are the ones with arrows in their backs.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 6:59 AM

Can you let us know what the products are so that we don't buy them. Thats what you get for using cheap chinese labour. It is not so cheap now, is it ?

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 832
Good Answers: 96
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 11:20 AM

Well, Mr. Guest, you can choose from all major brands, since there ALL made here. If you don't want to use off-shore produced goods, you're gonna have to live naked in the woods.

BTW, what brand of Chinese produced computer are you typing on

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire Hobbies - Car Customizing - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 7503
Good Answers: 96
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 2:06 PM

Don't feed the naked troll...

__________________
If death came with a warning there would be a whole lot less of it.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 42
#9

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 9:31 AM

Hi DCad:

Have you considered painting the product you ship to South-East Asia? There are some very effective mold inhibiting paints on the market that will prevent the mold from forming on your product.

Regards machtech

Register to Reply
2
Power-User
Safety - Hazmat - Environmental, Safety & Health Manager Hobbies - Musician - Theremin (That about says it all...)

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 289
Good Answers: 19
#12

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 4:18 PM

DCaD,

In order for mold to grow, three things must be present:

  1. Mold spores;
  2. adequate moisture ; and
  3. a suitable nutrient/food source for the mold to eat

Mold spores are ubiquitous in the environment, so you can't eliminate them;

It sounds like you can not reasonably control the moisture level either. (Often, water intrusions into buildings, or plumbing leaks manifest themselves as "mold problems").

Mold can and will eat just about anything that has available carbon. Cellulose (wood & paper) have their carbon readily available for a food source. The same holds true for some textiles (mostly natural fibers). You CAN treat your raw materials, or coat your finished products with antimicrobial chemicals which can provide fairly long-term residual antimicrobial activity.

There are numerous consumer products on the market that are pre-treated with such products. Everything from wooden cutting boards, to gym socks...

One of the more well known chemicals or treatments meant to be added during manufacture is sold under the name of "MicroBan".

https://www.microban.com/

As an alternative, you might consider a final step before shipping your product wiould be to apply a sanitizing agent which would provide residual anti-microbial action.

Check out the specifications on a product called "Shockwave":

https://www.fiberlock.com/product/shockwave/

Lastly, you can coat your product with a "paint" that will inhibit mold growth.

There are several of these types of products on the market. In addition to the products made by Fiberlock technologies (makers of the above-mentioned Shockwave), you can check into Foster Products line of chemicals:

http://www.fosterproducts.com/

=================================================================

Just my $0.02...

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 832
Good Answers: 96
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Mold and Mildew

10/07/2008 6:02 PM

JMAN ... you are great

This is the most concise information I have had so far.

Thanks very much, and kind regards,

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#14

Re: Mold and Mildew

12/08/2008 11:01 PM

The borax solution will be less expensive and probably more effective. Timbor is the name of a finely ground borate it's non toxic and also prevents wood boring insects.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
Posts: 6
#15

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/08/2009 4:52 PM

I believe that without a doubt our company, Environmental Protection Technologies can help your business and your clients eliminate any mold/mildew problems and any toxic odor problems that you may be encountering from the formaldehyde in the MDF and HDF would you are using. Any mold issues on textiles can also be eradicated.

You see we provide air purifiers for residential, commercial and industrial applications that create high allotropes of Oxygen. This is NOT Ozone which is O3 but highly active Oxygen molecules in the O4 to O15 range which have tremendous oxidizing power. We make machines with varying output to fit any size facility. We also have HVAC applications that fit a purifier behind the circulator in you Heating, Ventilating and Air Conditioning System.

-This will insure that no Mold/Midew grows in your factory

-It will oxidize any aromatic chemicals that are used in your manufacturing, like Formaldehyde, varnish, etc.

-It will provide pure, fresh air in your factory/warehouse and will greatly improve the energy level of all workers

Please check out our website: www.EPT-LLC.com and feel free to call me to discuss your situation and that of your clients.

EPTChuck

__________________
Charles B
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
Posts: 6
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/09/2009 1:04 PM

DCaD,

I thought I would clarify something. The air purifiers I am speaking about should not only be used by your facility, to insure that any mold on the wood is killed, but should be utilized by your clients as well, since mold spores are everywhere. Even if you ship the product completely clean, it can still collect mold in route to your clients or at their site.

If a shipment did attract mold spores in transit and your clients had our air purifiers as soon as it hit the warehouse atmosphere with Super Active Oxygen, the mold would be killed along with any other bacteria that may be present. We have used this in the grain industry to kill mold that had formed on Soy Beans that started to smell, and the beans were completely restored to a "clean condition" from rough. Please see the testimonial on our website; www.EPT-LLC.com

__________________
Charles B
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/09/2009 1:12 PM

... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ...

SOS ALERT!!!

(SNAKE OIL SALESMAN)

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
Posts: 6
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/09/2009 1:50 PM

Dear Skeptic, (although I can understand your skepticism if you are not familiar with the oxidizing power of Oxygen in its higher allotropes)

We of course have to get information out to sell our product, otherwise people would think that the only way to kill mold for example would be to use toxic chemicals like Chlorine.

You are commenting about something that you obviously know nothing about. This technolgy for creating Super Active Oxygen was patented in 1965 and has been utilized for over 40 years. Oxygen is a tremendous sanitizing agent. If you don't believe me, just google "Mr. Oxygen". He discusses the power of Ozone which is O3 and is not nearly as powerful as higher allotropes of Oxygen.

People reading this should do their own research and make an intelligent decision. Just because a technology has many applications since it solves a problem at a base level, i.e. killing bacteria does not make it "Snake Oil" . It is simply getting to the source of a problem instead of treating symptoms. Like getting rid of disease instead of taking medicine to mask the symptoms! So check out the lab tests and testimonials our our site and judge for yourself; www.EPT-LLC.com

__________________
Charles B
Register to Reply
Associate
United States - Member - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Apple II - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 26
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/09/2009 2:24 PM

I am fascinated but intrigued.

Could you point us to any scientifc article that discusses those "other" allotropic forms of oxygen?

The only ones I have ever heard of are O and O3 other than the ubiquitous O2

By the way I did google Mr Oxygen, but other than selling his book and therapies (O2 and O3) I did not see anything about "higher" forms of oxygen.

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
Posts: 6
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/09/2009 3:47 PM

Hi JFcayron,

An Allotrope is any form of an element that has a distinctly different molecular structure to another form of the same element. Ozone (O3) is an allotrope of oxygen, normally O2; O4,O5, etc. are just extensions of this same chemical activity. Our air purifiers create singlets of Oxygen that enter the atmosphere and immediately combine with O2 to form these higher allotropes.

I have cut and pasted a lab test done in 1970 verifying Active Oxygen or ARAN in the O5 range. Most people only know about Ozone as a higher allotrope of Oxygen and are not familiar with the higher allotropes. In fact, the technology that we use for generating higher allotropes of Oxygen received a patent in 1965 because it was distinctly different from anything else out there. It still is! It uses what is called a "Corona Generator" to produce these higher levels of Oxygen. This Super Active Oxygen is also highly charged and "unstable", which is what makes it a superior oxidizing agent to Ozone. There is nothing wrong with Ozone, however most Ozone generators (air purifiers) use a spark technology that also creat harmful Oxides of Nitrogen which is not safe to breath in high concentrations. This is why Ozone's concentration is limited in commercial and industrial use.

Ed McCabe, "Mr. Oxygen" talks about the beneficial effects of Oxygen. Ozone, without the unwanted by product from some Ozone machines is beneficial. We spoke with Ed and introduced him to our product line because we found that it was missing from his book. The reason I brought him up is that he speaks about Ozone and its many benefits. Ozone oxidizes, but higher forms of Oxygen oxidize more effectively because there are more Oxygen atoms available to be given to bacteria, toxic chemical, mold in the oxidation process. Since Ozone O3 is effective in this regard, O5 is 3 times more effective because O5 have 3 atoms of Oxygen vs only 1 in O3 that can combine with bacteria and pollutants to oxidize. So all the beneficial effect of 03 come much more rapidy with the higher allotropes of Oxygen. In fact, Ozone machines need maintenance, to change filters and bulbs (if they use ultraviolet light to generate Ozone) that burn out. Our air and water purifiers have no moving parts and require no maintenance other than to wipe off the stainless steel case; They have an infinite switch so that the output can be adjusted for the type of environment, lower for more normal environments, higher for more toxic environments.

Our manufacturing facility has one of the most advanced Labs for this type of molecular investigation and utilizes a Shimatsu Spectra Photometer and a Perk & Elmer Absorption Unit. Today, the "Corona Generator" is able to produce much higher allotropes, measured in the O12 to O15 range in some cases.

The technology that we use to produce Active Oxygen has been validated by an independent lab as far back as 1970, to produce Oxygen in the O5 range (back then the equipment for molecular detection was not as sophisticated as it is today) and NOT to produce Oxides of Nitrogen. So the higher allotropes of Oxygen that our products produce are completely safe and the machines are designed to run 24/7. This way bacteria, mold, allergens, toxic chemicals which are constantly being introduced into a home or business, can be oxidized and a clean environment maintained when our purifiers are run continuously. The machines also carry a 4 yr warranty on all parts and labor, which can be upgraded to 25 years.

http://www.ept-llc.com/LabTests.html (This link will take you to the section of our website where I cut and pasted the below Scientific Study.

Independent Lab Tests on Super Active Oxygen Technology

A lab Test in 1970 confirmed that active oxygen was at least in the O5 range and that the machine does not produce oxides of Nitrogen.

Campbell and Associates
692 East 200th St.
Cleveland, OH 44119

[Active oxygen] unit was delivered to Campbell for the purpose of establishing analysis of emitted gas for identification. To establish this analysis, special laboratory equipment was set up under known conditions at 70 degree F and 50% relative humidity.

Two chambers were arranged to house the Model LR and another to contain emissions. The second chamber contained equipment for weighing, oxidizing and flame testing with a Beckman Unit.

Results:"Gas emitted and weighed shows to have molecular weight about six times heavier than oxygen. Gas combined in oxidation five times faster than oxygen. The flame tests showed the range to be greater than ozone and to be in the Pentoxide Range, meaning O5 or active oxygen as described by the patent of the company.

Test conducted after the initial testing for active oxygen conclude that the active oxygen machine does NOT produce oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). The additional testing was conducted during a 48 hour period using equipment designed for the purposes of detecting gases which include the NOx gases".Sincerely, Edgar H. Campbell

__________________
Charles B
Register to Reply
2
Power-User
Safety - Hazmat - Environmental, Safety & Health Manager Hobbies - Musician - Theremin (That about says it all...)

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 289
Good Answers: 19
#21
In reply to #18

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/09/2009 5:13 PM

EPTChuck,

In your response to "Guest" , you state that "You are commenting about something that you obviously know nothing about". That very well may be the case, but after looking at the information on your web site, I conclude that You may know even less!!!

After perusing your web site, I "learned" the following "information":

"Fluorescent Lighting depletes the oxygen in the environment". I have never heard this before. Please expound on this, I would be fascinated by your explanation of the underlying physicochemical process.

"Up to 70% of the air you breathe is nitrogen". I don't know where you get your facts, but the earth's atmosphere is comprised of 78.08 % Nitrogen, and has been for QUITE A long time

"PrO Activ Ox produce active oxygen (O4-O15) which means more of the activated oxygen with none of the risks associated with nitrogen oxides". What is it that keeps these high energy, high activity oxygen allotrope from instantaneously oxidizing down to relatively more stable Ozone (O3), as well as reacting with the abundance of nitrogen in the atmosphere to form nitrogen oxides OUTSIDE of the UNIT???

I could only find references to allotropes of oxygen up to O8.. Interestingly, at room temperature, O8 is A SOLID, and only exists at pressures exceeding 10 Billion Pascal. That's about 100,000X normal atmospheric pressure. Yet you claim your device generates this allotrope at normal atmospheric pressure??? Quite impressive..

"Active oxygen can oxidize and neutralize 99% of aromatic chemicals making life more pleasant even as we are surrounded by chemicals like Chlorine and Formaldehyde".

For the record, by definition, Aromatic compounds contain conjugated double bonds and a cyclical structure. Neither Formaldehyde NOR Chlorine have such structure....

"Our manufacturing facility has one of the most advanced Labs for this type of molecular investigation and utilizes a Shimatsu Spectra Photometer and a Perk & Elmer Absorption Unit." Impressive attempted use of technical "jargon"... Perhaps you mean Spectrophotometer, and Perkin Elmer ...

In closing, I think that anyone investigating this equipment/technology should also take a serious look at information on the web about Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) as well as "Free Radicals", and the potential negative health implications associated with exposure to them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just my $0.02...

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
Posts: 6
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/19/2009 5:11 PM

JMan,

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate the feedback and will update some of the text on the website that is not exact. First off, I am a business developer, not an engineer, and have made some general points on our website like the mention of Nitrogen where the point was that there is much more Nitrogen than Oxygen. But why not be exact, so your point is well taken.

Also on the lab equipment that we have, it was not an "attempted technical jargon", it is the equipment that our engineers use. Unfortunately, I asked them over the phone and not in an email so I wrote what I "heard" and as you point out it is a Shimatsu Spectrophotometer and a Perkin Elmer Absorption Unit, so thanks for the correction.

__________________
Charles B
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
Posts: 6
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Mold and Mildew

01/19/2009 5:46 PM

JMan,

In regard to your queston, What is it that keeps these high energy, high activity oxygen allotrope from instantaneously oxidizing down to relatively more stable Ozone (O3), as well as reacting with the abundance of nitrogen in the atmosphere to form nitrogen oxides OUTSIDE of the UNIT???

1. The answer is that nothing keeps these larger molecules from releasing many O1s until what remains is stable O2 (not O3 which is also unstable). But this is what makes for the powerful cleansing process. O1 is very unstable and quickly combines with (oxidizes) whatever it first encounters. This is what makes O1 one of the most powerful and natural cleansing agents available. O3 is only able to release 1 oxygen atom per molecule created. Our equipment produces large quantities of the higher allotropes of oxygen which then release much larger quantities of O1s into the air.

2. O1 will not react with the nitrogen in the air because N2 is very stable and has a strong molecular bond. What is a problem in many ozone machines is that they use a localized "hot spark" technology which unfortunately is capable of breaking apart the N2 bond which then allows the N and O to combine into oxides of nitrogen. This does not occur in ambient air nor with a "cold" electron corona process.

Also you asked about O8-- I asked Ted Trikilis, the son of Nick Trikilis the original patent holder of the 1965 patent and he said that his father's Original patent stated the generation of O4 and O5 identified in the patent as the term ARAN. Since then higher allotropes have been created

He also told me that:

-The University of Pohang in South Korea studied the O8 and O12 molecule and wrote a few papers on those molecules for the International Chemistry Society which was published in their Journals

-In 1995, the United States Government gave a grant to the University of Georgia at Athens, Georgia for the study of the O8 and O12 Molecule for potential rocket fuel;

Regarding the Aromatic Chemicals, perhaps I should have said that Active Oxygen will oxidize Formaldehyde and Chlorine as well as 99% of Aromatic Chemicals

Aran, or Active Oxygen as it is also called is very active and aggressive. It can eliminate both Organic (Animal made and Plant Made compounds) and inorganic (Chemically create) odors by Oxidizing them (Burning them molecularly)


Acetone is an inorganic compound that becomes CO2 + O2 + H2O when exposed to ARAN or Active Oxygen.

Formaldehyde will also give you the same chemical reaction.

__________________
Charles B
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 23 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (3); bwire (2); DCaD (4); DVader1000 (1); EPTChuck (6); hazman (1); jfcayron (1); Labyguy (1); Lookfar (1); mechtech (1); The JMAN (2)

Previous in Forum: Dworshak Dam   Next in Forum: Quartz Infrared Heaters

Advertisement