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Designing Small Wind Turbines

11/13/2008 7:08 AM

SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN

where to go to have a small scale wind turbine evaluated for viability and eventually to have prototype built for further evaluation.

Any help would be appreciated.

frank@maxiglide.coom

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Guru
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#1

Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/13/2008 7:30 AM

1. Define 'small'.
2. Tell us where you are...not everyone in the USA

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/13/2008 8:12 AM

I am in New England, Boston area to be more specific.

I am want to see if my design can produce 5 v, and 15 watt. this would be a horizonally oriented rotor, blade configuration attached front to back on rotor, for high rpm, 6 inch in diameter and about 12 inchs long and how much wind speed would be needed to produce target output.

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#4
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Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/13/2008 12:57 PM

For the money you would spend on someone else evaluating the theoretical design etc. you can build several prototypes. For a wind tunnel we simply used a pick up truck on a windless day. Good enough to determine approximately what we needed to do. You should be able to do the same.

This must be a special application given the 5V 15W parameters. Why so little power?

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#5
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Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 7:14 AM

I MADE AN ERROR ON THE OUTPUT REQUIREMENTS...I NEED IT TO PRODUCE 10 VOLTS AND 5 KW. Is this possible from a turbine of this size @ high rpm's (how high?) 6,000 or so....

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 7:23 AM

why? as someone else said it sounds pretty specific. You can't pique our curiosity and then not give a hint of the application. (The 500 Amps involved may require some thick conductors).

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 12:36 PM

Quick estimate..... with 3 blades spaced 120 degrees apart at the depth you gave, I think you're looking at roughly 23 miles/hour minimum wind speed to achieve 6000 r.p.m.

10v at 5kw gives you 500 amps as pointed out. This is an excessive amount of amperage and is most likely neither practical or cost effecient. You would be better off running a high voltage/ low amperage, then stepping down the voltage close to your load or storage.

Next you need to calculate the total surface area of the blade(s) to determine how much horsepower or torque is available to run a generator of that size. Increasing the number of blades will improve torque, but will also require higher wind speed to achieve 6000 r.p.m. Not certain without more info, but it sounds like you might be a little too agressive on your power output requirements,,,, unless we are talking about an aircraft emergency drop down generator where much higher air speed is present.

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#10
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Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 12:46 PM

Mr Guest wrote: ,,,, unless we are talking about an aircraft emergency drop down generator where much higher air speed is present.

REPLY

Any aircraft that need 5kW as "emergency power" would be fairly substantial. Would not such a drop down design be a very different design, more along the lines of a miniature jet turbine without the combustion chamber stage and secondary compressor rings?

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#11
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Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 3:18 PM

"more along the lines of a miniature jet turbine without the combustion chamber stage and secondary compressor rings?"

Doesn't that kind of sound like what he is describing? The design in question is vague, giving only dimensions of 12" long and 6" in diameter. No number of fins or vanes given, I just used 3 for a quick off the top of my head figure.

A drop down generator for aircraft needs to be relatively small and light, should limit drag on the aircraft, and must be able to provide enough power to feed all the electronics in the event of an engine failure..... 5kw would be used up pretty quick when you take into consideration that these days controls are often computer linked to ailerons, rudder, elevator, etc..... without power, the aircraft would be dead stick and batteries are heavy.

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#8
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Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 12:41 PM

10V 5kW and 6000 RPM. sounds like the alternators I normally play with in my systems design. However I must ask why 10V? This is not a regular battery voltage so evidently you are not planning to store surplus energy during high winds for use during low wind periods. And how do you propose to regulate things so precisely? Do you have any idea what is involved in regulating generators over a wide dynamic range of speeds? Winds speeds may be steady over the short term but but are considered variable in the long term. Experiments going back 40 - 50 years have proved that regular automotive alternator design is NOT normally suited to wind turbine design. Evidently you have something slightly different. but the requirement for 6000 RPM makes me thing you are still using automotive type sizes and concepts.

Wind turbines generally turn at slow speed. This is necessary to prevent the prop tips from shattering as they approach supersonic speeds. Blade flutter is another issue. Savornius type rotors have their own design issues. Large mega watt designs have gearboxes that speed up the slow prop speed to the fast speed required in any sort of alternator.

Currently the most efficient designs involve using permanent magnets. However the difference between low wind speed output and high wind speed output will make it very difficult to maintain a stable 10V output. PM designs have inherently poor regulation. since the magnetic field cannot be adjusted as easily. I have seen copper shunt brake designs but they generate a lot of heat.

The control and regulation of wind turbine voltage output is best done with electronics and is actually a separate stage from the generation of power in the first place. 10 volts is really odd ball, even if you are not thinking of storage? and if battery storage is not contemplated why even think of low voltage with the inherent problems associated with so much amperage. contemporary design leans towards much higher voltages to minimize the current for the same power levels.

I squared R losses at 10 volts is horrific. the cost of copper alone will kill your project.

Is the intent of your design to make a better mouse trap as in a more efficient wind turbine or is the intent simply to create enough power at a stable 10V but with 5kW of power capacity.

If the latter we may be able to help you find an off the shelf solution. If the former, best of luck to you and more power to you if you have the perseverance to stick with it from concept to prototype development.

5 kW is a substantial amount of power. Have you done a proof of concept in a lower powered model that is less expensive to build and doesn't require as much in the way of material strenght?

Even a 500 watt model would be useful to proof the concept and to demonstrate any superiority over existing 500 watt designs already on the market.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/14/2008 12:41 PM

ps - I assumed that increasing the number of blades would alter the pitch of the blade.

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#2

Re: SMALL SCALE WIND TURBINE DESIGN HELP NEEDED

11/13/2008 7:56 AM

It's not possible to understand your question.

To evaluate such project, you must do it through your own business or contractor. Viability means that you must evaluate if you or your contractor can afford the money you must spend to develop it and estimate how long its gonna take to have it back, first of all. But to accomplish that, you must take in account what you'll have to have designed, what you'll have to have assembled, what you'll have to have built, what you'll do for yourself, include logistics, advertising, dinner with customers, etc...

It seems that you have a lack in project managing, not in equipment development.

Second, if you inform where you are, someone can help to point to some shop that will build a prototype for you, or even some candidates to help you may arise and join the project as contributors or even "share holders". Then, I'm pretty sure that some university around will count with a wind tunnel that can be used to measure the device performance.

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