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Join Date: Dec 2008
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PVC Additives

12/28/2008 11:46 PM

I'm molding small pressure vessels (2"-3" OD) in PVC. I see some "ballooning" deformation when the vessels are pressurized above 120 psi. No structural failure, but the stretching is not acceptable for the application. Can anyone point me to information, specific to PVC, on the effects of additives, such as talc or other mineral fillers that can increase modulus of elasticity? Our designs mirror that of common PVC fittings (e.g. Spears Mfg., etc.) but I get more deformation under pressure than I see with these commodity products. Any guidance is appreciated.

- Ed

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#1

Re: PVC Additives

12/29/2008 12:49 PM

There are a lot of great minds here, and I'm sure that someone with more recent experience than I, can trouble shoot your problems, but, your material supplier is the best source for information on fillers for their products.

If a product that you are molding with their resins fails to meet specification, that could be bad reflection on their material. Believe me, he wants you to be successful.

I do know that fillers bring their own set of problems with molding parameters, fill, burning (you may have to add vents to control this), surface finish and the list goes on and on..................

Good Luck

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#2

Re: PVC Additives

12/29/2008 1:25 PM

Thanks for replying. Unfortunately, the part molder is in China and it has been difficult to get meaningful dialog going on options for additives and to get clear & complete understanding of the likely outcome. The quality of the technical literature from the resin supplier is poor (close to non-existent). So, my strategy is to collect opinions & make a best choice from what I can learn from US sources.

A more pointed question, at the risk of looking at this too narrowly . . . Does anyone have successful experience in adding talc or other mineral filler (e.g. calcium carbonate) to PVC for the express purpose of stopping deformation in a pressure vessel? THANKS

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: PVC Additives

12/29/2008 7:17 PM

Good luck! You will need it.

You may be just discovering the down side to long distance relationships.

If your molder in China is seeing a drop in business, like everyone else on the planet, he may become more responsive to you. Same with his material supplier.

I don't believe you will see too many US molders jumping in to help you solve problems for a Chinese molder.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: PVC Additives

12/29/2008 11:02 PM

The road to success is shortened by each failure

Chinese are good listerners when you mandate it. You use the Good ettiqates they fall behind.

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#5

Re: PVC Additives

12/30/2008 1:56 AM

Fiber glass stranding could be incorporated in a secondary layer on top of a primary seal layer but will increase number of operations and cost. This might keep your moulding to present dimensions, otherwise you are looking at a much thicker construction. Talc and other fillers will not help , your resin formulation must otherwise be strengthened to resist creep distortion . You must seek this information from chemical companys.

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#6

Re: PVC Additives

12/30/2008 3:28 AM

One good place to start is www.solvay-fluor.com who manufacture Hostalit brand rigid PVC resins. They have a huge amount of information on rigid PVC behaviour under steady tensile stress, under varying stress at different rates of change, fatigue behaviour, and more. The creep behaviour in tension at elevated temperatures is probably what you need to investigate. Rigid PVC is a very early polymer so there are decades of history recorded for such applications.

Again, Hostalit is a good keyword for your web searches and

www.solvay-fluor.com are good people to ask, perhaps guiding you to a specific grade of Hostalit, tailored to meet your design stresses, rates, temperatures.

Mark Bingham
Relativity PL

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edginuity (1); garth (1); Imulla (1); lyn (2); Relativity PL (1)

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