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Power-User
Belgium - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flanders (Belgium)
Posts: 343
Good Answers: 21

Electric Motor vs. Diesel Engine

02/23/2009 11:25 AM

Hello,

On a boat there are two diesel engines, each 110 Hp, for the main propulsion.

Because the boat is only going to be used for inland navigation and the speed of the boat is limited to 60 km/h, the two diesel engines have too much power and consume too much of petrol.

We are considering exchanging the 2 diesel engines with

2 electric motors, 2 frequency converters, a transformer and a diesel generator set.

We estimate we only need 75 Hp for the main propulsion. The propeller needs to turn at a shaft speed of 4500 RPM

We are thinking about the following solution, please give us advise if we are working in the right way.

We use a 3 phase motor 18.5 kW at 50Hz 230/400V. The motor is connected in delta and takes 56.3A at 230V We are going to supply the motor with a VFD.

The VFD output voltage changes linear form 50Hz/230V to 86 Hz/400V

  • At 75Hz the output voltage equals 345V
  • At 75Hz we have an output speed from 75/50 x 3000 = 4500 RPM
  • At 75Hz we have an output power from 75/50 x 18.5 = 22.7 kW

The two motors together deliver an output from 2 x 27.75 = 55.5 kW (75.4 Hp)

  • The VFD delivers a current from 58 A continuous, each motor consumes 56.3 A
  • The VFD overload capacity for current is 150% for 60 sec. and 200% for 3 sec.
  • The VFD uses sensor less vector control to control the motor speed

The input voltage of the VFD is increased to 450V. If the output voltage from the generator decreases, the VFD will "see" enough voltage, because the capacitors of the VFD are only reloaded if the instantaneous voltage of the generator set is higher than the actual voltage of the capacitor.

A three phase separation transformer is placed between the 2 VFD's and de generator for

  • increasing the voltage form 400 to 450 Volt
  • to have a time delay from 30 electrical degrees (the low voltage side are delta and triangle connected)

Because of the time delay, the current spikes the generator "sees" are not at the same moment and the harmonic distortion will be lower. The generator current will be more sinus shape.
The problem I fear is that the generator will give an output voltage that is round off at the top. The RMS value of the voltage will be 400V but the top value will be less then SQRT 2 of it.

Please give us your remarks about this solution.

Is it necessary to use a separation transformer will an auto transformer also fit ?

Perhaps only one VFD on a transformer ?

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Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1604
Good Answers: 63
#1

Re: Electric Motor vs. Diesel Engine

02/23/2009 6:48 PM

Have you considered an Eninrude 75 HP. Sounds a lot cheaper that your proposal.

Product Specs.

  • Year: 2007
  • Horsepower: 75
  • Horsepower Prop Shaft: 75 HP (56 kw) @ 5000 RPM
  • Engine Type: E-TEC Direct Injection
  • # of Cylinders: 3
  • Shaft Length: 20.0
  • Electric Start: Yes
  • Steering Type: MANUAL STEERING
  • Trim Type: Power Trim
  • Propeller: Optional Accessory
  • Weight: 320 lbs. (145 kg)
  • Block type: Inline
  • Displacement: 79 cu 1295 cc
  • Bore & Stroke: 3.600 X 2.538 (91 X 66 mm)
  • Alternator: Variable Voltage Computer Controlled 75 Amp*/1100 watt output w/regulator.
    (*75 Amp current calculated at 13.5 V. Net dedicated battery charging power output is 25 Amp.)
  • Fuel Type: Gas
  • Fuel Delivery Type: E-TEC Direct Fuel Injection with stratified low RPM combustion mode
  • Cooling System: Presure and Temperature Controlled Water Cooled
  • Gear Ratio: 2.0:1
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Guru

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sitting directly behind my keyboard in Albuquerque - USA
Posts: 592
Good Answers: 19
#2

Re: Electric Motor vs. Diesel Engine

02/23/2009 11:14 PM

Use smaller diameter propellers. The amount of fuel you will save by your electric conversion will take 15 years to pay for the conversion costs. Just remove the propellers and either trim them in a machine shop smaller or buy smaller ones. This will work fine and reduce fuel consumption.

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Guru

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Anywhere I may be at the time
Posts: 661
Good Answers: 16
#3

Re: Electric Motor vs. Diesel Engine

02/24/2009 8:44 AM

Apart from the cost, there are two things I seen right off.

  1. You show only one generator, you should have two with synchronizing capability.
  2. You state your propellers need to turn 4500 rpm? That seems strangely fast.
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Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 265
Good Answers: 4
#4

Re: Electric Motor vs. Diesel Engine

02/24/2009 5:01 PM

What you proposing is a little over my head.

...but I've spent plenty of time in boats on the ocean. I've "always" found that too much engine is a good thing. Asking a little engine to do a lot of work is less efficient than asking a big engine to do a little work. For example a 30ft Sea Ray powered by a 200HP 5.0 liter running wide open is going to use a lot more gas than the same boat power by a 320HP 7.4 liter when running at identical speeds.

What size boat? 60km/h is pretty fast for something you're looking to power with twin diesels unless you've got enough torque to turn a high ratio drive and high pitch prop. RPM's kill diesels.

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Power-User
Belgium - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Flanders (Belgium)
Posts: 343
Good Answers: 21
#5

Re: Electric Motor vs. Diesel Engine

02/25/2009 6:41 AM

It seems to me there is a mistake in my data.

The maximum speeds is only 15 km/h and the shaft speed of the propeller is about 2500 - 3000 RPM

At the moment 2 propellers diameter +/- 300 mm each

The boat has a weight about 3000 kg and needs about 15 HP for main propulsion.

This makes my calculation a lot different.

I keep you in touch

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