Previous in Forum: Motor Runs Wrong Rotation   Next in Forum: Rolls Royce Olympus SK20 Industrial Gas Turbine
Close
Close
Close
20 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

What Happened to My Transformers?

03/19/2009 12:10 PM

at work i tried to connect 2 transformers: 1 phase transformer (220V/24V)and a 2 phase transformer (380V/24V). i connected in the next way: the 2 phase transformer at L1 and L2 and the 1 phase transformer at L2 and Ground. suddenly the 2 phase transformer is damaged. why? i don't understand! can you give me a answer? thank you!

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The cigarette-stained drunkard living in the cardboard box outside Marks & Sparks delivery entrance, Eastgate Shopping Centre, Basildon.
Posts: 487
#1

Re: hi

03/19/2009 12:15 PM

What's the voltage across the damaged transformer, Guv? <cough>

__________________
Essex jobs for Essex yobs! <Burp>.
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#2
In reply to #1

Re: hi

03/19/2009 12:22 PM

it should be 380V!

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#3

Re: what happened to the transformers?

03/19/2009 1:16 PM

What is connected to the secondaries ? and how ?

The 2 phase transformer is without neutral ?

Please note that the 2 phase output (of the inputs at 90 deg) and 1 phase output- will have phase shift.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#4
In reply to #3

Re: what happened to the transformers?

03/19/2009 1:34 PM

in the secondaries i have electric bulbs at 24 v

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#5
In reply to #3

Re: what happened to the transformers?

03/19/2009 1:47 PM

the primary coil of the 2 phase transformer is powered by 2 different phases of 220V each one, deg at 120. so between them i have 380 V, the power supply for this type of transformer. at output, at secondary coil have only 24 V what powers a number of 3 electric bulb. so, the two phase transformer is without neutral.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2550
Good Answers: 103
#9
In reply to #5

Re: what happened to the transformers?

03/19/2009 11:38 PM

As CJ said and as i meant in the prev post- do not interconnect the secondaries of the two transformers, since it will cause a high secondary recirculation between them and that will kill the weaker one.

If the secondaries are isolated, then it is defective transformer.

__________________
Fantastic ideas for a Fantastic World, I make the illogical logical.They put me in cars,they put me in yer tv.They put me in stereos and those little radios you stick in your ears.They even put me in watches, they have teeny gremlins for your watches
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#15
In reply to #9

Re: what happened to the transformers?

03/20/2009 4:54 PM

the secondaries were not interconnected between them. thank you for the answer!

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#6

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/19/2009 1:59 PM

It doesn't sound as though you did anything wrong (assuming you have a 380Y220 supply), so most likely it was just a defective transformer. It happens...

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#16
In reply to #6

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 4:56 PM

the 2 phase transformer was verified before use. thank you for your answer!

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: SoCal USA
Posts: 556
Good Answers: 23
#7

Re: what happened to the transformers?

03/19/2009 2:03 PM

If the transformer primaries were as stated, then they were connected correctly since it appears you have a 380/220 Wye system. You don't say where you are at, but I can assume also you have a 50 Hz system. Keep n mind the output 24 v of the two transformers can not be interconnected.

Assuming the transformers were in good condition, and ok for 50 Hz operation, we need to know what connections were made on the secondary side of each transformer. Were the secondaries interconnected? Are these auto transformers? Did you earth any of the secondary lines?

This information will help very much with your question. CJM

__________________
I do not 'know it all', but i will admit that I would like to. CJM
Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1854
Good Answers: 140
#8

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/19/2009 8:17 PM

It is proper to call the transformer that you are calling a "2 phase transformer", a single phase one. Both of these transformers are single phase units.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#10
In reply to #8

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 12:19 AM

N. of LX,

In IEC world, they call 2 wires of a 3 phase system "2-phase". They apparently never heard of the kind of true 2-phase we have (had) in North America where the phases are 90 deg. out.

Took me a while to figure that out.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 346
Good Answers: 6
#11
In reply to #10

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 1:02 AM

jraef; where do they use this 90 degree 2 phase you talk about? perry

Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1854
Good Answers: 140
#13
In reply to #10

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 7:53 AM

Really... interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

Can anyone else from the IEC sphere of influence comment? Why would you refer to this as a "2 phase" transformer.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#18
In reply to #10

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 5:03 PM

true! i live in Europe.

Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#17
In reply to #8

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 5:01 PM

this transformer is powered at 380 V. i live in Romania (east-Europe) and here from 2 different phases i have 380 V. the secondaries were not interconnected. thank you for your answer!

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brasov, Romania
Posts: 255
Good Answers: 7
#12

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 6:05 AM

The 2 phase transformer got overloaded. The cause is that the load was unbalanced. If you analyze the 3 phase wave form diagram and the way you conected the transformers it can be seen that at a particular time, the current flows from L2 to L1 and also from N to L1. this overloads the 2 phase transformer because its winding has to carry an excess current given by N-L1. Te solution would have been to connect the 1 phase transformer between L3 and N.

__________________
The time is ......now
Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 19
#19
In reply to #12

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 5:11 PM

it's possible! i thought to that myself but i did not find in any book for electric engineering something to use as an explanation. thank you for your answer!

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#14

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/20/2009 8:06 AM

Simple, BLOWN UP SIR!

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brasov, Romania
Posts: 255
Good Answers: 7
#20

Re: What Happened to My Transformers?

03/22/2009 12:39 PM

Another minor error noticed. The phase-phase rated voltage in Romania is 400V, and phase-ground is 230V. I live there too. It should also be taken into consideration.

__________________
The time is ......now
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 20 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); CJMcGill (1); ion mihaiu (8); JRaef (2); nikolay (2); North of 60 (2); perry (1); sb (2); Stinky Pete (1)

Previous in Forum: Motor Runs Wrong Rotation   Next in Forum: Rolls Royce Olympus SK20 Industrial Gas Turbine
You might be interested in: Transformers, Power Transformers, Telecom Transformers

Advertisement