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Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/02/2009 6:53 PM

hi again!

I need more help. this time on providing power to multiple things but from one wall wart. really quite an easy thing, but i don't know what i would need and how.

so i want to take a 12vdc 500ma power supply and split that up to provide 3.7 volts, 12 volts to a computer fan, and how ever much power a 12 watt LED would use.

also, i want to make another board that will provide enough power for a 15w + 15w amp to work and like 4 for a laser. i would probably us a 15vdc wall wart for this

In both projects i want to make sure that the 3,7 volts and the 4v for the laser stay very constant and smooth. i would like to make both of these circuit very safe, no spikes or anything that could damage the laser and the thing I'm powering with the 3.7v. Also now that i think about it i should have the power to the LED be quite safe.

sorry for such simple questions, if i could be pointed to a goo sit to teach me how to do this that would be great, or if anyone can draw up a schematic that would be nice to

also i don't want to use a psu or something, because i want to fit both of the boards i would make into project box's

thanks

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#1

Re: multiple power supply's from one wall wart

04/02/2009 8:30 PM

Start with your basic math:

12V x 500ma (0.5A) = 6VA or 6W at best.

So to start with, how do you plan to squeeze 12W for your LED from a PSU that can only deliver 6W? Forget the rest of it my friend, you have already run out of juice before you did anything else!

Any time you load a power supply, wall wart or not, you will have a voltage fluctuation. If you don't want that, you need what is called a regulated power supply. Cheap wall warts are almost NEVER a regulated power supply. If you are serious about doing this, get serious about what it takes to do it right. Then look at the LOAD of each of your projects, not the voltage yet, and start with that. Remember that the more loaded your PSU is, the more the output will fluctuate when you add something else, so if you oversize the basic PSU to start with, you can help avoid some of that. You can always get DC/DC converters to change voltages after you make sure you have enough overall power.

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#2

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/03/2009 10:36 PM

What is a "Wall Wart"?

Cheers

Martin

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/03/2009 10:42 PM

it converts AC into DC. (If you don't know what that is please google. could of googled this question to)

anyways it converts the ac power into dc power. I'm sure you have a few laying around your house. they are the things that plug into your wall socks, they usually have a small box that plugs right into the wall and then a cable coming from it is used to power anything from cell phones to routers to IPod docks.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/03/2009 10:54 PM

This is an engineering forum, precision of language is a useful skill.

Excuse me if I'm not well versed on slang terms. If you mean an AC adapter, say so. Use of terms like "Socks", appears to be simple laziness, I presume you mean "Sockets", is typing two more letters so difficult?

Now to get to your original post, if your adaptor is only rated at 6 watts, how are you going to power a 30W amplifier?

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Martin

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/03/2009 11:11 PM

ok. well your question was quite simple to begin with.

i didn't know that that the ac converter was only 6w. i have never been thought any thing about circuits or electricity. i have picked it up on my own from simple projects and such.

I didn't mean to type socks, meant socket. I'm bad at spelling

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 11:18 AM

Learn these basic terms: Ac adapter = brick = wall wart

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#6

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 1:46 AM

Regards:

The power of your "Multiple-Power-Supplies-Wall-Wart" is:

1. 12vdc 500ma

2, 12 volts to a computer fan

3. 12 watt LED

4. 15w + 15w amp to work =30W

and like

5. 4x 15W= for a laser ie 15+15W = 4x2x 15W = 240W but later you say <the 3,7 volts and the 4v for the laser >

so it = 4 x @ what ratings you think = 4W + 4 x what ratings you think A

Regulation @ lo-Voltage is quite coplicated if feed-wires are long & thin. There you need Remote-Sensing Supplies

All that is NOT a "Multiple-Power-Supplies-Wall-Wart" but a cutom-designed Power-Pack

To make it "Multiple-Power-Supplies-Wall-Wart" get it in a Wall-Mounted or

Rack-mounted "Multiple-Power-Supplies-Wall-Wart"

Contact a local designer some where in your city or assemble yourself by purchasing

Off-the-Shelf units & mounting those in a single Case with a lot of connectors like

your "Multiple-Power-Supplies-Wall-Wart".

Enjoy all your jobs & entertainments & Have a Good Day !!!!!!!!!

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#7

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 5:21 AM

try this site for three output switching Reg pwr supplies

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/637/2001.pdf

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#9

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 11:35 AM

"so i want to take a 12vdc 500ma power supply and split that up to provide 3.7 volts, 12 volts to a computer fan, and how ever much power a 12 watt LED would use."

For the fan you can just connect it to the 12V input from the wall wart. You will need a regulator to drop it to 3.7V. That should get rid of any spikes. A 12W LED is very bright. Are you sure that is what you have? If you do you will need a 12V 1A brick for just the LED (Watts = volts * amps). That is about the biggest I have seen. You will need a separate power supply for the amplifier. You won't find a brick that big. I would not suggest trying to use the same supply for 2 projects anyway. Just buy the amplifier with the power supply built in. Good luck.

-S

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 8:15 PM

I'm Planing on using this amp.

the fan is only rated to .56A, which is 500ma right?

i would rather only use one power supply. I'm using this to provide power to a laser light show (laser 4v, and amp 30a,)

would a laptop charger that supply's 5vdc and 12vdc (has two different plugs coming out of the "brick") at like 2A work well for this?

i want to build another supply to provide power to a projector I'm making (mp4 3.7v, fan 12vdc, and a 12w LED (it says it only needs 4.2V, 2800mA 4.2v at 2A right?)

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 9:02 PM

2800 ma is 2.8 Amps. Nearler three, than two, and your 4.2V * 2.8 A = very nearly the 12 W rating. 4.2 * 2.8 = 11.76

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 9:12 PM

radio shack sells wall warts up to like 28v and 1a, could i lower the voltage and increase the amperage?

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 11:24 PM

"the fan is only rated to .56A, which is 500ma right?"

By now you should know it is 560mA (1A = 1000mA).

"(laser 4v, and amp 30a,)"

That would make it a 120 watt laser and it is highly illegal. One look by you or anyone seeing you show and they are INSTANTLY BLIND!

See this site: http://members.misty.com/don/laserdon.html and read the writing in red, then GIVE UP THIS PROJECT FOREVER!

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 11:30 PM

its only a 5MW laser man. I'm smarter than to look into a beam of controlled radiation anyways.

the amp is used to run some pc motors. i have thread in her asking for help with this project already, look at that if you want to know what im doing.

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#13

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 10:31 PM

"...and how ever much power a 12 watt LED would use."

Um, about 12W, since wattage is the conventional measurement of power. Are you sure you didn't mean a 12V LED? Not that any actually exist, but there are LED circuits that are powered at 12 volts. But 12 watts for an LED is HUGE, and would likely require active cooling which will load your power requirements even further.

If you feel a pressing need to design your own power supply since it reads as though you have a specific project in mind (and I understand your desire to protect your intellectual property), try a novel approach: Begin with an uninterruptable power supply (UPS) with a filtered output that is commonly available for computer use. Repackage the unit so that its output is applied via a full bridged rectifier with a common capicitor filter (to supply stable DC - a common design covered in every electronics text since Ben Franklin). Now tap the DC line to provide your various output voltages - these will need to be seperately designed invividual circuits and many already have "commercialy available off-the-shelf" (COTS) modules.

The UPS will provide a large amount of available, stabilized wattage and act as a protection against wall power fluctuation. In addition, it provides a stable platform for your power supply as various loads are switched on and off. Third, you can get them at Staples, Walmart, or any other store that sells computers and office supplies, and they're relatively cheap - but not wall-wart cheap. Sorry, but for what you want you will need something beyond a dime store solution.

Good Luck.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/04/2009 11:12 PM

nah its 12w LED. read 2 post up.

i know it would be hot, therefore i would have a fan moving some air and i heatsink from an old Pentium !!! processor!

ill look into these UPS's

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#17

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/06/2009 6:50 AM

Cheapest way is to start with an ordinary PC supply.

http://www.helpwithpcs.com/courses/power-supply-basics-inc-pinouts.htm

You need to supply a power on signal back to the main (mother board) plug.

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#18

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/06/2009 12:05 PM

Visible Noise,

I know you have yet to study electronics. I and I'm sure everyone here hopes that you do pursue some formal education in electronics, because you have some very creative and insightful ideas. But you need to understand the meaning of some basic units to proceed.

Watts are a unit of power. Power is the amount of energy per unit time.

For a strictly DC operation, the wattage of a part is the voltage time the current or W=V*I. (Just to be complete, for AC operation the real power is W=V*I*cosΘ, Θ being the angle between the current vector and the voltage vector. But I digress.)

But wattage ratings can be a little misleading and must be carefully interpreted how they're used. For your laser diode and all of the parts of the system that use power, the wattage rating is the nominal amount of power it will draw. It can draw less power depending on your circuit configuration and for brief periods of time it can safely draw more power. The 30 watt amplifier you wish to utilize can cleanly provide up to 15W on each channel if the power supply driving it can provide this power.

A power supply (wall wart or other type) is rated at the maximum power it can continuously provide without some degradation of some criteria, current or voltage. For brief periods of time any supply can provide more power than it's rating. All power supplies convert some form of power into another. Typically electronic power supplies provide one to many DC output voltages, but always the power rating is the continuous total output power capable by that supply. Power supplies come in many different flavors, there are AC or DC in supplies and regulated and unregulated output supplies. Regulated supplies have a consistent, tightly controlled output voltage despite input voltage fluctuations. (Within limits of course.) Unregulated supplies can change dramatically their output voltage.

So now with that discussion completed, a wall wart supply is always an AC in and typically an unregulated output supply. Some wall warts are just transformers and produce a different AC voltage than the input voltage. To size your supply you must anticipate the maximum power your system will draw simultaneously. Do this by summing all of the watts of the parts to be driven by this supply, don't worry about voltages yet. So a 6 watt power supply (12V*0.5A=6W) cannot continuously drive a 12 watt laser diode at the nominal 12 watt power. It can drive continuously this diode at half power but only this one diode.

Now look at the voltages your supply needs to provide for your system to function. If multiple voltages are required then multiple outputs must be obtained. This can be done by either choosing a multiple output supply (easy approach) or converting the output of one output voltage to another voltage. Also sometimes regulation is not always necessary or even preferred. (For an example, sometimes driving a motor with an unregulated supply is better for as the motor starts to move and the maximum torque is required the higher initial voltage of an unregulated supply can help. Also the voltage produced by the motor's back EMF during stopping can help at the next start cycle. But again I digress.) Sometimes in a design you'll find parts with overlapping operating voltages. This will permit a single compromise voltage to be used instead of the added complexity of two output voltages.

If you must convert one DC voltage to another, the easiest cleanest method is to step down the voltage with a linear regulator. But the draw back of this is that the smaller voltage's current draw must be provided by the higher voltage. In other words for a +5V 1A output from a +7V supply the +7V must be capable of providing 1A. You might now ask, I only want 5 watts on the 5V side, why do I have to provide 7 Watts, where did the 2 watts go? Well the linear regulator will now waste 2W of power. So if you try to linearly step down to 3.7V from a 12V supply, the linear regulator will dissipate two and a quarter times more power than all of the 3.7V circuit. If your 3.7V circuit only dissipates 0.1W this may not be a problem.

To avoid this power loss one can use higher efficiency switching power supplies. But probably an easier approach will be to just choose a supply with multiple outputs.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/07/2009 6:27 PM

ok, well the help has been useful, but i still don't quite get what I'm being told.

but back to my question. I have this power supply. It provides 12vdc 2A and 5vdc 2a. I want to use this supply for the laser and amp.

The amp asks for 12v >2A. I think the amp will run fine if just a bit under powered, the amp wont be using the full 12v 2a the whole time its running, only on the load and bass rich parts of a song. This is no longer a probably because what the brick provides is what i need.

but i still need to power the laser. The laser calls for 5v at most. but it does not specify an amperage. I don't know if 5A will damage the laser. So can someone tell if the laser will get damaged with all this power or if it will work. Also i would still like to lower the voltage from the 5v down to 4v. Is there a calculator type thing that Will be able to tell me what i will need from just plugging in the input power and the needed output?

thanks again

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/07/2009 8:08 PM

Hi VN,

Finally we get the info that we need to help you. The conflicting information has made it very hard to help you. OK, this power brick may do for the amp if you don't turn it up all the way. Since the 5mW laser is rated at 5V (per the add), 5V should not damage it. I understand that you want to be careful. You need to learn ohms law and the power formulas that responders here have tried to teach you. I will give it one more try.

Ohms law: I=E/R and R=E/I and E=I*R

power formulas: P=E*I and P=E2/R

Power is in watts, E is in Volts, and R is in ohms

So lets find out the resistance of the 5mW laser: R = E/I = 5/.005 = 5,000 or 5kohms.

Get yourself about a 1k potentiometer (100 ohms at the lowest) and connect the outer terminals to the 5V supply. Connect the laser to the wiper (the center terminal) and to one of the outer ones. Center the pot and plug in the power. The laser should have about 2.5V applied. Slowly turn it one direction to see if it gets brighter or dimmer. Mark your panel. That is all you should need.

Lets check to see if the pot is going to get hot. P = E2/R = 5*5/1000 = 25/1000 = .025W. For a 100Ω pot: P = 25/100 = .25 Watt. Most pots should be rated that high.

-S

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/07/2009 8:19 PM

oops, just re read what i had said. the power supply puts out 5v at 2A.

not 5v at 5a!

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#23
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Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/08/2009 7:28 AM

That laser module is designed to work with two AA or AAA cells (2.7 to 3.2 V):-

http://www.newwishlaser.com/english/productview.asp?id=467

Just make sure you only give it 3V and don't worry about the current.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Multiple Power Supplies from One Wall Wart

04/07/2009 8:12 PM

and to power the projector project i think i will use this or maybe this?

to power the LED but take apart the brick and place it inside the casing for the projector. i would then also need to make a power supply for the fan and the 3.7 needed by the LCD screen.

i drew a picture of what I'm want

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